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The existence of 2 rival league proposals is shocking to me, but competition cannot be a bad thing.  

According to our friend Futballer his UK based owners' business plan was scooped by Hamilton / CSA.  

Sandor wrote: "The second one wasn’t one to be taken very seriously, but the aggressive nature of the person/people behind it actually hurt the real CanPL start-up." 

I can only assume "the second one" refers to Futballer's UK based owners and the real CanPL is Hamilton/CSA.

@Futballer is your group still a realistic option or has the CSA moved on to working with the Hamilton group?  Can you tell us anything about the rumour of Mitchell Goldhar being the mystery investor into the Toronto team?

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Just curious, who is Goldhar?

I'm about 75% kidding by the way

Mitchell Goldhar is the majority owner of REITCan (or whatever name they go by now), the group that owns smart centres (the hundreds of big box areas across Canada...the ones with the penguin). He made his initial fortune bringing Walmart to Canada (ick but bygones are bygones) then leveraged it to build up REITCan. Sold a good chunk of the business for about 900 million  a few years back. Born and raised in York, still lives and operates out of Toronto 

He also owns Macabi Tel Aviv of the Israeli league, so he wouldn't be new to owning a soccer team

 

HOWEVER, the only evidence that he is involved is that his name keep gets being brought up by people seemingly in the know. It could all be one large feedback loop where one person threw his name out and everyone else parroted it

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9 minutes ago, matty said:

Serious question: How much does everyone here trust Futballer?

In saying this, I mean no offence to Futballer. 

This is the third time we have heard about two competing groups. One was known, at least a year back IIRC, as one that was extremely aggressive, somewhat unprofessional, and over optimistic about the league. I think we know who that sounds like

Futballer has demonstrated knowledge a few times that was later confirmed. He clearly knows something, even if it is disagreeable to some. My bet is that he is somehow connected to the aforementioned competing group 

Now, if there has been some sort of reconciliation, glad to hear it. Even with differing ideologies, CPL should be a big tent, there is room in the stands for everyone. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

HOWEVER, the only evidence that he is involved is that his name keep gets being brought up by people seemingly in the know. It could all be one large feedback loop where one person threw his name out and everyone else parroted it

I possibly made the first mention of him and the CPL a while back when address talking points of the league. I hadn't seen his name mentioned with relation to the CPL prior but in a talk with someone close to the story back in 2015 they mentioned the CSA was talking with a loaded Canadian about a GTA CPL team who had soccer experience. Haven't spoken with them since.

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9 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

You know what? Now that I actually think about it I can't recall much. I'm not really inclined to parse through 107 pages to figure it out though 

Fair enough. I know he's mentioned the CPL going at it without a TV but instead launching its own network and streaming service and having a cap higher than MLS.

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So, to push this thread in another direction (unless someone is willing to confirm my suspicions about Goldhar), allow me to procrastinate further by posing a question....

What do people think of a designated player rule? With all this talk about high rolling owners, you think one or two would like the freedom to bring in a big name for their side. I know some people have expressed discomfort of the idea, but that was a while back, and a lot more people are paying attention now and a lot more hope that stability can be assumed instead of prayed for.

If you are in favour of it, would you like to see specific rules in place? Reserve the DP spot for a domestic perhaps? Would that hurt our pool more than help it by drawing players away from high leagues in Europe (a la MLS)?

If you are against, are there any rules you would be okay with that might allow some wiggle room with the cap? What about lowering the cap significantly but not counting domestics against the cap at all? May have the same problems as above, but it could create a strong market for Canadians, even picking them off MLS teams occasionally. If the domestic quotas for MLS were reverted, this would create a huge motivation for both leagues to develop players efficiently and to a high standard.

Or are you against all cap-circumventing rules in general? Just curious to see where people stand.

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1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

So, to push this thread in another direction (unless someone is willing to confirm my suspicions about Goldhar), allow me to procrastinate further by posing a question....

What do people think of a designated player rule? With all this talk about high rolling owners, you think one or two would like the freedom to bring in a big name for their side. I know some people have expressed discomfort of the idea, but that was a while back, and a lot more people are paying attention now and a lot more hope that stability can be assumed instead of prayed for.

If you are in favour of it, would you like to see specific rules in place? Reserve the DP spot for a domestic perhaps? Would that hurt our pool more than help it by drawing players away from high leagues in Europe (a la MLS)?

If you are against, are there any rules you would be okay with that might allow some wiggle room with the cap? What about lowering the cap significantly but not counting domestics against the cap at all? May have the same problems as above, but it could create a strong market for Canadians, even picking them off MLS teams occasionally. If the domestic quotas for MLS were reverted, this would create a huge motivation for both leagues to develop players efficiently and to a high standard.

Or are you against all cap-circumventing rules in general? Just curious to see where people stand.

I'm pro DPs. They're proven to get media attention, give the team a known face, can put butts in seats and can raise the level of the league. I don't think there should be a reserved spot for Canadians but would still like to see a Canadian DP or two. Any non-Canadian DP should count as taking up an international slot.

I think CPL teams with likely be signing 2 DPs if the ownership rumours are right. Maybe making $400k-1.5m a year

We'll likely see age 32+ players occupying CPL DPs slots for the first few years, likely with some national team experience. Hopefully they're closer to what an MLS team might get and not what an ISL team would sign.

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5 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

If they're going to drive the NASL to bankruptcy (again) because of their inflated budget, I'd really prefer for them not to take down a second (third?) league with the same philosophy.

Maybe the Cosmos are MLS's secret weapon after all.

Thats not happening though, other NASL clubs have not matched the spending of the Cosmos or the Miami FC and have spent within their means.

 

DP type rule for CPL would make sense as each club could bring in a higher level player to bring up the exposure of the league and would be needed to help with a TV Deal.

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2 minutes ago, TRM said:

OMFG we've hit 3 digits on this thread with ZERO evidence and 100% rumours. Well done to all. Onward to 200  :)

Seriously I'm impressed with you all. Any group that makes me look normal has something special going for it.

Considering the CSA and Montagliani have openly acknowledged the project and the goal of 2018, I would hardly call it 0 evidence or 100% rumours. 

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32 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

So, to push this thread in another direction (unless someone is willing to confirm my suspicions about Goldhar), allow me to procrastinate further by posing a question....

What do people think of a designated player rule? With all this talk about high rolling owners, you think one or two would like the freedom to bring in a big name for their side. I know some people have expressed discomfort of the idea, but that was a while back, and a lot more people are paying attention now and a lot more hope that stability can be assumed instead of prayed for.

If you are in favour of it, would you like to see specific rules in place? Reserve the DP spot for a domestic perhaps? Would that hurt our pool more than help it by drawing players away from high leagues in Europe (a la MLS)?

If you are against, are there any rules you would be okay with that might allow some wiggle room with the cap? What about lowering the cap significantly but not counting domestics against the cap at all? May have the same problems as above, but it could create a strong market for Canadians, even picking them off MLS teams occasionally. If the domestic quotas for MLS were reverted, this would create a huge motivation for both leagues to develop players efficiently and to a high standard.

Or are you against all cap-circumventing rules in general? Just curious to see where people stand.

I tend to think I am against DPs at the start of the league, until I picture Hutch playing in the CPL.

Really, I think I don't have a strong opinion on DPs. I would be fine either way. As for other cap circumventing rules, the one I somewhat like in MLS but would like to take further is the homegrown rule. My ideal for a homegrown rule would be that there are no limits on it. Sign a player to your first team that spent a certain amount of time in your academy (2 or 3 years perhaps) and you can pay them whatever you want (not below the minimum salary of course) for as long as you want. As long as that player is with your team, they are not counted against the cap. So if you had an especially rich team with an especially great academy, you could theoretically pay a dozen or more players millions of dollars each and count nothing toward the cap. Yes, I know those numbers are unrealistic, just trying to illustrate the idea. I think with this approach it pushes teams to prioritize player development, and also allows teams to retain hometown heroes longer, and also could theoretically help a team create depth despite a limiting salary cap.

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Just now, Complete Homer said:

Considering the CSA and Montagliani have openly acknowledged the project and the goal of 2018, I would hardly call it 0 evidence or 100% rumours. 

Except they and others before them in the same positions have said the same thing for 2016, 2017 and now 2018. Next ..... 2019, 2020 etc. They will continue to do their "due diligence" with no league is my sad but realistic prediction. String it along forever if they can.

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Just now, Kent said:

I tend to think I am against DPs at the start of the league, until I picture Hutch playing in the CPL.

Really, I think I don't have a strong opinion on DPs. I would be fine either way. As for other cap circumventing rules, the one I somewhat like in MLS but would like to take further is the homegrown rule. My ideal for a homegrown rule would be that there are no limits on it. Sign a player to your first team that spent a certain amount of time in your academy (2 or 3 years perhaps) and you can pay them whatever you want (not below the minimum salary of course) for as long as you want. As long as that player is with your team, they are not counted against the cap. So if you had an especially rich team with an especially great academy, you could theoretically pay a dozen or more players millions of dollars each and count nothing toward the cap. Yes, I know those numbers are unrealistic, just trying to illustrate the idea. I think with this approach it pushes teams to prioritize player development, and also allows teams to retain hometown heroes longer, and also could theoretically help a team create depth despite a limiting salary cap.

I would love to see Hutchinson hang on for an extra year or two to play in the CPL. I wouldn't even be that surprised, he would only be 35 (or 36 in the case of a 2019 launch). Patrice Bernier players a more physical style than him and he has managed to keep going at an MLS level at 36

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6 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

UK: 92 teams / 65 million people = 1.42 teams/million
Spain: 42 teams / 46 million people = 0.91 teams/million
France: 46 teams / 66 million people = 0.70 teams/million
Germany: 56 teams / 82 million people = 0.68 teams/million
USA: 145 teams / 324 million people = 0.45 teams/million

...

I wanted to look at Australia as well, but they've got something like 5 pro leagues all playing different styles of rugby that I couldn't make legitimate sense of it.  In fact, the 4th and 7th-ranked leagues in terms of average attendance *worldwide* are both in Australia.  Safe to say, if you're looking for evidence that a small country can't support a lot of pro teams, don't expect the Aussies to back you up on that.

I was curious about Australia as well, so crunched the numbers. I included AFL (Australian football, 18 teams), BBL (cricket, 8 teams), NRL (rugby league, 15 teams), Super Rugby (rugby union, 5 teams), and A-League (soccer, 9 teams)

55 teams / 23 million people = 2.39 teams/million!

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1 minute ago, TRM said:

Except they and others before them in the same positions have said the same thing for 2016, 2017 and now 2018. Next ..... 2019, 2020 etc. They will continue to do their "due diligence" with no league is my sad but realistic prediction. String it along forever if they can.

You're welcome to have that opinion. The conversations I have heard here and elsewhere have convinced me, the CSA confirmation was just icing.

Personally, I think it is more interesting exploring different ideas of what the league might look like than constantly turning over to arguments over the sincerity of the stakeholders' statements

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Just now, Complete Homer said:

You're welcome to have that opinion. The conversations I have heard here and elsewhere have convinced me, the CSA confirmation was just icing.

Personally, I think it is more interesting exploring different ideas of what the league might look like than constantly turning over to arguments over the sincerity of the stakeholders' statements

Well I've put my vote in on the other thread about which cities are most important. What a league might look like depends on how much of the country it covers. A league with Ontario and Quebec would hardly be "national" and same for Ontario plus the prairies.

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1 minute ago, TRM said:

Well I've put my vote in on the other thread about which cities are most important. What a league might look like depends on how much of the country it covers. A league with Ontario and Quebec would hardly be "national" and same for Ontario plus the prairies.

I really doubt it will be, though I am not as confident about BC or the maritimes

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1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

I really doubt it will be, though I am not as confident about BC or the maritimes

Same here. And there in lies a huge credibility gap for a "national" league. The Maritimes are not part of the sports landscape for NHL, CFL so that might not be a huge problem. But the big 3? Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal? Ouch.

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Just now, TRM said:

Same here. And there in lies a huge credibility gap for a "national" league. The Maritimes are not part of the sports landscape for NHL, CFL so that might not be a huge problem. But the big 3? Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal? Ouch.

I have a feeling Toronto will be filled. QC as well, which may ameliorate the Montreal gap for the first few years. I don't think expansion would be too far behind if they can prove stable for 5+ years, and if the money is really behind it in a single-entity league, there's no reason to suspect it would fold in that period

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7 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I have a feeling Toronto will be filled. QC as well, which may ameliorate the Montreal gap for the first few years. I don't think expansion would be too far behind if they can prove stable for 5+ years, and if the money is really behind it in a single-entity league, there's no reason to suspect it would fold in that period

Here's hoping that's how it shakes out.

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56 minutes ago, matty said:

I'm pro DPs. They're proven to get media attention, give the team a known face, can put butts in seats and can raise the level of the league. I don't think there should be a reserved spot for Canadians but would still like to see a Canadian DP or two. Any non-Canadian DP should count as taking up an international slot.

I think CPL teams with likely be signing 2 DPs if the ownership rumours are right. Maybe making $400k-1.5m a year

We'll likely see age 32+ players occupying CPL DPs slots for the first few years, likely with some national team experience. Hopefully they're closer to what an MLS team might get and not what an ISL team would sign.

Like I always said. Scouting or out-scouting MLS might be key.

Look at Montreal who found Piatti in Argentina for $1.5M. He's one of the best in MLS at a fraction of the price of other DP.

If the rumours are true and CPL is not only getting deep pockets owners but also soccer minds that already have experience in soccer, the future is bright

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