Alphonso Davies

[shermanator]

8 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

FYI Henry has started for the first team on the Europa League. 

I meant in Premier League action, but fair enough.

[C2SKI]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As soon as you say scouts from any top club, that means every single team knows about him, every single agent. It is as simple as that, there are no secrets.

In fact, considering Man Utd is far from the better teams when it comes to scouting, perhaps not in the top dozen in Europe though they should be, it even suggests that they have arrived late, I'd bet we'd be surprised by who has already taken a look. 

IN any case, as is, you can't do anything right now with this 15 year old talent, in fact there is no assurance it will go anywhere. Why? Because you cant take it anywhere where it will grow substantially. Under Robinson he is just asked to do what he already knows, he gets playing time, gets confidence and experience, against adults, all good. But you telling me he is getting quality coaching, from a guy who has been amongst the worst in the league IMHO?

What is too bad is not to be able to put him in a quality academy and see him develop these next 2-3 years and mature into a quality professional.

Davies clearly has tremendous talent, but he certainly hasn't outgrown the club or the league tactically. You're mad to think that he has nothing left to learn in Vancouver. We may very well bemoan his lack of EU passport in the future, but we're not there yet.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, C2SKI said:

Davies clearly has tremendous talent, but he certainly hasn't outgrown the club or the league tactically. You're mad to think that he has nothing left to learn in Vancouver. We may very well bemoan his lack of EU passport in the future, but we're not there yet.

What exactly is he going to learn playing MLS? Already, as is, he is good, a solid and even flashy pro playing vs. men. Fabulous. So what is he going to learn that he would not learn better at a top quality club?

I am assuming you are thinking Robbo will continue, if he doesn't, we wil be lucky to have someone not using him as a cop out, an effective excuse (good for his age, can't expect more),  but really trying to get quality results with him included in the mix.

If you say that at least here they let him play, well I'd agree, he plays. Great. He'd play U-16 or u-19 at Leverkusen or Real Sociedad or Swansea, too, or B squad, and maybe learn way more. Playing.

He could play for USL 2 and also learn, in fact if you watch him, he does not play better for the 2nd team than for the first. He is not even a stand-out USL player. Why is that do you think? Shouldn't we be putting him with the USL squad next weekend to try to get a home playoff win, let him be with younger players, enjoy some success as well if they pass the rounds, have a laugh and a celebration? And not destroy him stupidly with this overhype?

[Complete Homer]

Anyone with a connection heard what's up with his citizenship? From my understanding, he's all lined up and ready to go, but his mother would have to apply on his behalf because he's 18. Surely a mother wouldn't impede him if he truly wanted citizenship? 

[coach_86]

19 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Anyone with a connection heard what's up with his citizenship? From my understanding, he's all lined up and ready to go, but his mother would have to apply on his behalf because he's 18. Surely a mother wouldn't impede him if he truly wanted citizenship? 

The way it works if you are 18 years or younger is that the mother/father must apply, complete the test and obtain citizenship, the child will then automatically receive theirs. His parents have had complications so therefor Alphonso now has 2 options; 1. Wait until he is 18, apply on his own, complete a test and receive his citizenship. or 2. CSA/Whitecaps can intervene/hire a lawyer that will prove it is not his fault that his parents have had complications and that him receiving citizenship before 18 is helpful for him, and that he can be a valuable member and contributor to Canada. The latter should be a very easy plea considering at 15 he is already a professional athlete and playing for Canada in international competition is a dream of his. Hopefully the Whitecaps and CSA are on top of things. To my understanding this has been done for other athletes in Canada, only difference is that they were already 18+ years of age, they just had their process expedited.

 

On a side note, is there any rules to having players like him, and Tabla for instance invited to these 1st team camps but not to participate or be on the match roster? I think this would be a great way to integrate them into the men's team and a chance for coaching staff to see how they measure up. 

[toontownman]

Sky Sports on the band wagon in the UK: (nice article tbh)

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10605176/manchester-united-reportedly-to-scout-alphonso-davies

^ ^  no heart warming magpie story included. 

[Complete Homer]

After reading up on the citizenship laws out of curiosity surrounding Davies/Guillard, I came across something interesting...adoptees are granted immediate citizenship and "the category of adopted persons includes persons who will be or are adopted as adults."

Ok, so who else is up for gross abuse of our immigration system?

[C2SKI]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What exactly is he going to learn playing MLS? Already, as is, he is good, a solid and even flashy pro playing vs. men. Fabulous. So what is he going to learn that he would not learn better at a top quality club?

I am assuming you are thinking Robbo will continue, if he doesn't, we wil be lucky to have someone not using him as a cop out, an effective excuse (good for his age, can't expect more),  but really trying to get quality results with him included in the mix.

If you say that at least here they let him play, well I'd agree, he plays. Great. He'd play U-16 or u-19 at Leverkusen or Real Sociedad or Swansea, too, or B squad, and maybe learn way more. Playing.

He could play for USL 2 and also learn, in fact if you watch him, he does not play better for the 2nd team than for the first. He is not even a stand-out USL player. Why is that do you think? Shouldn't we be putting him with the USL squad next weekend to try to get a home playoff win, let him be with younger players, enjoy some success as well if they pass the rounds, have a laugh and a celebration? And not destroy him stupidly with this overhype?

Overhype? You’re the one claiming that after a few months in a professional set up he’s done all the learning he can on this side of the pond. That he’s already surpassed Carl Robinson’s tactical acumen.

What does he gain by staying with Vancouver?

He gains further connection to this country, more time to mature in a culture he’s familiar with, more experience playing with fellow Canadian national team members, more experience playing in CONCACAF (the region we need him to excel in), complete support from a club that is committed to developing Canadian players and is desperate for one of their own to succeed.  With Vancouver he’ll be afforded every opportunity to raise his stock at a club that is truly invested in him, and as long as he keeps proving himself he’ll get his chance to duke it out in the much harsher environments of European football.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, C2SKI said:

Overhype? You’re the one claiming that after a few months in a professional set up he’s done all the learning he can on this side of the pond. That he’s already surpassed Carl Robinson’s tactical acumen.

 

What does he gain by staying with Vancouver?

 

He gains further connection to this country, more time to mature in a culture he’s familiar with, more experience playing with fellow Canadian national team members, more experience playing in CONCACAF (the region we need him to excel in), complete support from a club that is committed to developing Canadian players and is desperate for one of their own to succeed.  With Vancouver he’ll be afforded every opportunity to raise his stock at a club that is truly invested in him, and as long as he keeps proving himself he’ll get his chance to duke it out in the much harsher environments of European football.

No, for sure you are right, stay close to home and play when you are a kid. Be in a comfortable environment where they care for you, for sure that is a bonus. 

But where I doubt: first, no MLS player is really rated that high, so you can't really raise your stock that much. Look at the offers spoken of for Larin: those are not numbers for a premium striker at his age. Because the top clubs don't highly rate MLS. 

Maybe there is a reason for it. 

Was just watching a short clip on tv about Pjanic, and he was talking about going to the Metz academy at Alphonso's age, but the point is: Metz is a better place to be in your mid teens than Vancouver. Or Nantes. Or Rennes. And Metz is a small town and the academy has a good reputation in all respects. I name those smaller French cities as an example, as the academies are great, they care for players, are used to kids from African background, and are not going to expose kids to "dangers" they are not ready for. And the football culture is way superior to any MLS team.

[toontownman]

5 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

After reading up on the citizenship laws out of curiosity surrounding Davies/Guillard, I came across something interesting...adoptees are granted immediate citizenship and "the category of adopted persons includes persons who will be or are adopted as adults."

Ok, so who else is up for gross abuse of our immigration system?

Just have to go through the 10 year adoption process

[Complete Homer]

47 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Just have to go through the 10 year adoption process

+5 year naturalization 

Fuckit, build a time machine too 

[jpg75]

Jeffrey, it's all irrelevant anyways - Davies can't officially move until he's 18. If he hadn't signed a contract he could have gone over unofficially to train, but that train has left the station.

[C2SKI]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, for sure you are right, stay close to home and play when you are a kid. Be in a comfortable environment where they care for you, for sure that is a bonus. 

But where I doubt: first, no MLS player is really rated that high, so you can't really raise your stock that much. Look at the offers spoken of for Larin: those are not numbers for a premium striker at his age. Because the top clubs don't highly rate MLS. 

Maybe there is a reason for it. 

Was just watching a short clip on tv about Pjanic, and he was talking about going to the Metz academy at Alphonso's age, but the point is: Metz is a better place to be in your mid teens than Vancouver. Or Nantes. Or Rennes. And Metz is a small town and the academy has a good reputation in all respects. I name those smaller French cities as an example, as the academies are great, they care for players, are used to kids from African background, and are not going to expose kids to "dangers" they are not ready for. And the football culture is way superior to any MLS team.

I think Vancouver should be aiming a little higher than Metz's youth system with prospects like Davies. They can do better. When Pjanic joined Metz he was moving from FC Schifflange youth games, not Vancouver's first team.

I'm not sure I would make that move if I was Davies either. Even though they have a good history of player development.

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, for sure you are right, stay close to home and play when you are a kid. Be in a comfortable environment where they care for you, for sure that is a bonus. 

But where I doubt: first, no MLS player is really rated that high, so you can't really raise your stock that much. Look at the offers spoken of for Larin: those are not numbers for a premium striker at his age. Because the top clubs don't highly rate MLS. 

Maybe there is a reason for it. 

Was just watching a short clip on tv about Pjanic, and he was talking about going to the Metz academy at Alphonso's age, but the point is: Metz is a better place to be in your mid teens than Vancouver. Or Nantes. Or Rennes. And Metz is a small town and the academy has a good reputation in all respects. I name those smaller French cities as an example, as the academies are great, they care for players, are used to kids from African background, and are not going to expose kids to "dangers" they are not ready for. And the football culture is way superior to any MLS team.

Do you know who else was at Metz? Samuel Piette.

[Ansem]

19 hours ago, toontownman said:

Sky Sports on the band wagon in the UK: (nice article tbh)

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10605176/manchester-united-reportedly-to-scout-alphonso-davies

^ ^  no heart warming magpie story included. 

We need to cap this kid ASAP before anyone else does. Lock him down for Canada

[Keegan]

8 hours ago, Obinna said:

Do you know who else was at Metz? Samuel Piette.

Abdoulaye Sylla was also there.  I think if you're getting first team football at Vancouver you're in a much better position than being at Metz academy.  At the end of the day you make your own opportunities.. playing first team football is an unheard of opportunity for 15 year olds, no matter what level we are talking.  

[Havoc88]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

Do you know who else was at Metz? Samuel Piette.

I'm 99% sure Piette has said he wasn't at Metz. I think he trained or trialed there for a point in time, but I'm pretty sure he didn't go through their academy or anything like that.

[jpg75]

4 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

I'm 99% sure Piette has said he wasn't at Metz. I think he trained or trialed there for a point in time, but I'm pretty sure he didn't go through their academy or anything like that.

Correct, Piette trained there for a number of months but was never officially signed with them.

[Obinna]

He was still involved in a footballing capacity for an amount of time that wasn't insignificant. Would Piette really be further along had he signed there?

Put me in the "first team over academy" camp. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

The "first team playing time over academy" concept is what sunk players like Jamie Peters and Wyn Belotte, early starters with a huge teen years' upside. In fact it sinks a lot of players. It is an illusion in the short, mid and long term.

There are way more examples of players starting young and not going far than the opposite. Right now players who started 1st team age 16 coming to mind are Bojan Krkic (Barça, now Stoke) and Muniain at Bilbao. Fine perfectly respectable careers, though both well below the hype the deserved when teens. Okay, there are others that have done a bit better, thinking about Milner, whose debut was just shy of 17 and was 26 when finally signing for Man City.

I say academy over first team at age 15 almost always, unless you are talking about first team u-18s or u-19s. Or unless you get to first team having already moved up through a quality academy into a quality first team. Not the case with Whitecaps, who expect nothing from him, he has been used by Robbo to cover up his own responsibility for badly managing the team, subbed in never expecting him to contribute positively to a result and often damaging it (the Voyageur's Cup final sub-in was a huge coaching error), he's been used rhetorically, basically, not because Robbo really thinks he will add to our results, or because we are already too far back for him to matter.

 

[Complete Homer]

Anecdotes about a small number of players don't really prove much, the truth is in the middle somewhere. In reality, his success hinges more on his commitment than anything else. 

Unless he comes out and dominates MLS next year, he'll still be learning. He'll possibly be learning how to beat adult players in a highly physical league as opposed to a learning high end technical skills against kids, with both experiences having different value depending on your view.  Regardless, he'll still be learning skills valuable for competing in CONCACAF. VWC isn't Ajax, but it isn't a dumpster fire either. 

If he was developed in a top end academy from 15 to 18, he might end up a better technical player, but the lack of exposure from being buried amongst talented domestics would probably mean a worse chance at a shot at a top tier. Instead of being the "15 year old phenomenon," he'd just be another non-domestic academy product. 

Besides, given what we've seen with Adekugbe, I really doubt Davies won't get ample opportunity to train with top end clubs in the off season. Almost gives him the best of both worlds

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The "first team playing time over academy" concept is what sunk players like Jamie Peters and Wyn Belotte, early starters with a huge teen years' upside. In fact it sinks a lot of players. It is an illusion in the short, mid and long term.

There are way more examples of players starting young and not going far than the opposite. Right now players who started 1st team age 16 coming to mind are Bojan Krkic (Barça, now Stoke) and Muniain at Bilbao. Fine perfectly respectable careers, though both well below the hype the deserved when teens. Okay, there are others that have done a bit better, thinking about Milner, whose debut was just shy of 17 and was 26 when finally signing for Man City.

I say academy over first team at age 15 almost always, unless you are talking about first team u-18s or u-19s. Or unless you get to first team having already moved up through a quality academy into a quality first team. Not the case with Whitecaps, who expect nothing from him, he has been used by Robbo to cover up his own responsibility for badly managing the team, subbed in never expecting him to contribute positively to a result and often damaging it (the Voyageur's Cup final sub-in was a huge coaching error), he's been used rhetorically, basically, not because Robbo really thinks he will add to our results, or because we are already too far back for him to matter.

 

Robbo is likely using him because he will make a difference. He has said so himself and indeed he has added energy on the field. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

Krkic had a lot of hype, but never reached the level you'd expect, as did Gio Dos Santos, but both have had good careers, like you said. However, we can't say for sure that's due to first team exposure.

Clearly he is effective at the MLS level, so why not use him? What matters is that he's making a difference for the first team; that is more important than how he's performing in the USL.

It doesn't make sense to keep him with WC2 until he dominates, when he's demonstrating he can already preform well in MLS. Domination with the second team (Bustos) doesn't always Translate to first team usefulness anyways....

[PhillyCanuck]

Davies hasn't featured for WC or WC2 since he started against Seattle on October 2nd. Did he pick up a knock?

[lazlo_80]

1 hour ago, PhillyCanuck said:

Davies hasn't featured for WC or WC2 since he started against Seattle on October 2nd. Did he pick up a knock?

I believe so. Apparently it happened right before the WC2 Semi

[IceCreamMan]

Shocker of the day Davies wins U17 player of the year.