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It appears that NASL Commish Bill Peterson hasn't given up on Canada yet


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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/soccer-a-tough-sell-for-canadian-stakeholders-233131638.html

If I read this article correctly, it now appears that NASL Commissioner Bill Peterson is not totally shutting the door on Canada. Not yet!!! Could this be a sign that the C-League is no go, for now. Peterson does say in this article that he has been in serious conversations with 2 Canadian markets. Now this begs the question: "Could Peterson be referring to Hamilton and Calgary as the next Canadian expansion cities in the NASL? Could this also mean that the C-League is now being abandoned by stakeholders?

Edited by PJSweet
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Let's face it, the C-League was always questionable with lots of doubts. Without Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto and Edmonton who are never going to move to the new league, it appears that this idea did not have a leg to stand-on from the start. Even Ottawa who was "possible" probably this time won't buy into this idea given their recent success. Now, I'm curious to know if investors (such as the Ti-Cats or The Calgary Flames) are shying away from the C-League. If by the new year we hear rumblings from the owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats Bob Young wanting to join the NASL, then that's the perfect indicator that the C-League is pretty much dead in the water.

Edited by SoccerCoach
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Honestly my preference for Canadian pro soccer is 1) C-League, 2) NASL Canadian division and 3) just NASL expansion.

There just isn't enough spots for Canadian players with the current setup and there's no place that Canadian players can be treated on a level playing field.

Maybe the Flames and Ti-Cats have finally completed their analysis and it shows a C League can't work.  I suppose those 2 teams joining the NASL Canadian division would be a good 2nd best option.   I guess we'll see how this plays out.

 

 

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9 hours ago, PJSweet said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/soccer-a-tough-sell-for-canadian-stakeholders-233131638.html

If I read this article correctly, it now appears that NASL Commissioner Bill Peterson is not totally shutting the door on Canada. Not yet!!! Could this be a sign that the C-League is no go, for now. Peterson does say in this article that he has been in serious conversations with 2 Canadian markets.

Actually Peterson doesn't say he's been in conversations with 2 Cnd Markets, just that the NASL is open to more Canadian expansion :

 

“We'd love to increase that number – it's a priority for us. But at the same time, you've got to find an ownership group who steps up and approaches you and says 'Hey, we'd like to do this' and a city that they can be successful in. And that just hasn't happened yet. But the door is wide open and we continue to have various conversations. We're very hopeful that out of the twenty clubs that we end up having, there's more than two in Canada for sure. We're just starting to infiltrate that market from a brand standpoint, from a fan's standpoint. Both of the clubs there right now are fabulous. Ottawa has had a heck of a run this year – in only their second year – and if we end up with more teams there, that would be fantastic.”

 

I'm sure the C-League discussions and planning are still going on but as SoccerCoach says, if Hamilton joins the NASL in the future that is an indication the C-League's not going ahead, we'll see how things play out.

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People need to relax. Why is there no new Canadian professional team news?

The Canadian dollar is at .73 cents American. That's why

No one is starting a club in Canada to play in the NASL or a Canadian league with that number.

Youll see news when that number goes way up. Likely a long way in the future.

Edited by Soccerpro
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14 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

People need to relax. Why is there no new Canadian professional team news?

The Canadian dollar is at .73 cents American. That's why

No one is starting a club in Canada to play in the NASL or a Canadian league with that number.

Youll see news when that number goes way up. Likely a long way in the future.

Because the Canadian dollar is low could be a reason not to start a team in a US league,but why should It be a reason for a Canadian league? It should be another reason TO start a Canadian league.

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6 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Because the Canadian dollar is low could be a reason not to start a team in a US league,but why should It be a reason for a Canadian league? It should be another reason TO start a Canadian league.

Which international players are you going to attract? They're going to be cool with being payed in Canadian currency at its current value?

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There are many international players that would love to play in Canada. The lifestyle, values as Canadians and opportunities for their families here is worth way more than our dollar in salary. And we have more than enough youth in L1O, Quebec, BC, Alberta that can fill up the rosters for our beloved C-league. We need Canadian investment in this league like: CFL, Canadian Tire, the Saputos, the Burnacs, Rogers, Bell, TSN, Thompson family, Irving family to fund this league. We need Justin Trudeau to get involved! 

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On 2015-12-10 at 5:50 PM, baulderdash77 said:

Honestly my preference for Canadian pro soccer is 1) C-League, 2) NASL Canadian division and 3) just NASL expansion.

There just isn't enough spots for Canadian players with the current setup and there's no place that Canadian players can be treated on a level playing field.

Maybe the Flames and Ti-Cats have finally completed their analysis and it shows a C League can't work.  I suppose those 2 teams joining the NASL Canadian division would be a good 2nd best option.   I guess we'll see how this plays out.

 

 

See, mine is NASL Canadian, C-League, Just NASL. I think the biggest obstacle towards building soccer in Canada and getting more teams playing meaningful minutes is legitimacy in the face of MLS, who is not going to expand meaningfully any further in our country.

I think, if you are part of the NASL umbrella, and have established markets in Ottawa, New York, Indy and Minnesota you can overcome that far better then with just the C-League if you can get the CSA to sanction it and play just enough with NASL South and the USSF it's ideal, so you aren't giving up swathes of development spots to the US and are still playing at a high level. It's the benefits of having a local league, with the additional benefit of easier marketing.

Next is the C-League, mainly because there is something to be said in doing it like how every other country in the world does it. Also having complete control by the CSA is also of great benefit as we become masters of our own destiny. The problem though, if the perception of viability. If you can't get Ottawa and FC Edmonton to jump ship, it may be looked at as division 3 play.

The last is straight NASL, mainly because it doesn't address the fundamental issue of development improving for the national team. While it would add some meaningful minutes, it doesn't change the fact if the league really took off, the USSF would rear it's head and demand more US development.

Edited by -Hammer-
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10 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

The last is straight NASL, mainly because it doesn't address the fundamental issue of development improving for the national team. While it would add some meaningful minutes, it doesn't change the fact if the league really took off, the USSF would rear it's head and demand more US development.

That isn't a fact, it's only your opinion. The three MLS franchises are investing heavily on the development of Canadian players and recently filled in what had previously been the missing gap in their academy systems by adding fully pro USL teams to provide a better environment for their top youth prospects to learn their trade after high school. MLS is now placing a strong emphasis on the concept of homegrown players, so this is likely to continue and should pay dividends for the CMNT 5 to 10 years from now. It is a lot easier to put that in place with crowds of 20,000 and TV deals that generate significant broadcast rights than it would be for a start-up pro league, so that is likely to be the main development pathway for CMNT level prospects that don't go to Europe in the years ahead, regardless of what happens at the D2 level.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That isn't a fact, it's only your opinion. The three MLS franchises are investing heavily on the development of Canadian players and recently filled in what had previously been the missing gap in their academy systems by adding fully pro USL teams to provide a better environment for their top youth prospects to learn their trade after high school. MLS is now placing a strong emphasis on the concept of homegrown players, so this is likely to continue and should pay dividends for the CMNT 5 to 10 years from now. It is a lot easier to put that in place with crowds of 20,000 and TV deals that generate significant broadcast rights than it would be for a start-up pro league, so that is likely to be the main development pathway for CMNT level prospects that don't go to Europe in the years ahead, regardless of what happens at the D2 level.

It seems you have a personal issue against Hammer, and it's becoming annoying. And to be clear, your arguments are also your opinion, not facts. Also, with your arrogant attitude, I don't have a problem to tell you Hammer's arguments make sense, not yours.

"MLS is now placing a strong emphasis on the concept of homegrown players, so this is likely to continue and should pay dividends for the CMNT 5 to 10 years from now".

How many times we have seen this argument subjective opinion? Always the same line year after year, since 2007.

I give credit to the 3 Canadians MLS clubs for all the investment they have done. They at least created some opportunities for Canadians as professional footballers but there are others issue that MLS won't probably solve with the current state of thing right now (see Hammer's previous posts).

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On ‎2015‎-‎12‎-‎11 at 11:52 AM, Soccerpro said:

Which international players are you going to attract? They're going to be cool with being payed in Canadian currency at its current value?

Our $ is still better than most South American currency and our league will not start for another couple of years at least which by then our $ should be much higher.

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As much as the Canadian MLS teams have been investing in Canadian soccer; how much minutes are actually going to Canadian's in the MLS teams?  I think there's a lot of lip service but not a lot of actual progression happening.

The MLS teams recognize it's a disadvantage to them to have Canadian's on the roster.   They can't trade the players like they can US players and the Canadian players get called up to the CMNT much more than the US players on their roster which causes them problems setting lineups in the international windows.

The Canadian MLS teams provide just enough content to keep the CSA off their backs and appear Canadian without having to actually commit to Canadian players.

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

As much as the Canadian MLS teams have been investing in Canadian soccer; how much minutes are actually going to Canadian's in the MLS teams?  I think there's a lot of lip service but not a lot of actual progression happening.

The MLS teams recognize it's a disadvantage to them to have Canadian's on the roster.   They can't trade the players like they can US players and the Canadian players get called up to the CMNT much more than the US players on their roster which causes them problems setting lineups in the international windows.

The Canadian MLS teams provide just enough content to keep the CSA off their backs and appear Canadian without having to actually commit to Canadian players.

It seems like a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario, really.  We can't develop good players because MLS teams don't really want Canadian players, and MLS teams don't want Canadian players because we can't develop good players.  That is why either NASL expansion or C-league are essential.  They can bridge the gap between things like NPSL, USL, etc. etc., to MLS.  If it is NASL expansion and we end up with enough for a Canadian NASL division, the push should be to have some mandatory Canadian spots, and just more generally have the fans give Canadian players a bit more of a shake, just because they are Canadian.  I'm trying to be glass half full.  At least we do have Canadian MLS teams and it seems likely that there's going to be a few more pro Canadian teams in the next decade or so, and even if the progress isn't as fast as we would like, it is undoubtedly occurring.    

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/12/2015 at 7:45 PM, baulderdash77 said:

As much as the Canadian MLS teams have been investing in Canadian soccer; how much minutes are actually going to Canadian's in the MLS teams?  I think there's a lot of lip service but not a lot of actual progression happening.

Cyle Larin got plenty of minutes last summer. If the player is good enough and can help a team win, the coach isn't going to spend too much time worrying about what passport they carry.  Player development in Canada was ahead of what happened in the US up until around 1990, but subsequently fell well behind for a variety of reasons. Blaming everything on MLS seems a bit myopic to me given MLS was one of the factors that helped the Americans succeed on the world stage to the extent they have. If youth deveopment in Canada was at the level it should be, there would be a lot more Canadian players on MLS rosters. Ultimately if Canadian soccer is going to succeed in a CONCACAF context, a lot more Canadian players will have to be good enough to earn playing time against the Dan Gargan and Ty Harden types that provide the filler content on MLS rosters. As things stand I think the increasing emphasis that MLS is placing on homegrown players provides the incentive needed for the three Canadian franchises to fill the void created by the failure of the CSA and the provincial associations to keep pace with what was happening in the USA over the past two or three decades.

 

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Howdy Blizz:

Thats the whole point, we have guys like Dan Gargan etc but no US team will play them because they take up an international spot.  Easier to fill with a US player that they can market to fans as a local guy.  All things being equal why not get the US player?  And TFC does it as well, fills the roster out with journeymen US players that dont count as internationals.  Canadians playing on our MLS clubs aren't as easy to trade or move within the league so even the CDN clubs seem like they dont like having many fringe, roster filling CDN players.  Unless they are prospects/young guys, home grown players.  I dont blame everything on MLS, but this is an easy fix for them, have a little equality with the country you are sharing your league with.  We have 3 strong franchises in there. They sure wanted to expand into those markets and the CDN clubs helped with the success of the league.

And Us soccer took off after the early 90's for a varitey of reasons?? I would venture to say MLS is the biggest reason.  SO many US guys got a chance and they started to develop a deep and talented player pool.  How can the CSA and provincial orginizations take guys 18-22 and give them opportunites?  That is where we are failing, not enough pro clubs, not enough teams willing to play the guys we are bringing up. Nobody gives them a chance.  The 3 MLS and 2 NASL teams might be starting to turn that around.  The USL teams (mls reserves) help as well, and a CDN league would do wonders!!  Even look at the 1ontario league, if that keeps going, dont you think they'll find/help development some guys that can be Gargan type NASL/fringe MLS players.  Babouli is the first one that pops into my head, but I am sure more will follow.  If no CDN league is coming than a couple more NASL clubs (Calgary, Hamilton, Winnipeg) might give another 15-20 young CDNs a place to develop while cultivating the next generations of young athletes in the stands cheering them on.  

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We will probably have to agree to disagree about a few things, but the way I see it is that we only need a slight upgrade on players like Adrian Cann and Nana Attakora before some of the Dan Gargans and Ty Hardens will start to get bumped by CMNT-eligible players. The three MLS-linked USL teams are giving 40+ younger domestic players a fully pro environment to play in, so the missing piece where the MLS pathway was concerned has finally been added. Give it a few years and I think that will make a significant difference. Think there is a long way to go until L1O will be a significant factor and it's largely just a repackaged version of the amateur/semi-pro development pathway that wasn't getting the job done.

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There is a good point made and that is the  3 MLS teams have now created a pathway somewhat for young Canadians via the USL.  

The problem is that the funnel is too steep and doesn't facilitate enough of a talent pool.  To be a viable contending team just to make the Hex we should have a player pool similar to the Honduras, Costa Rica and Panama teams.  That is to say 200+ domestics plus a couple dozen international players.

What we do have is 63 USL players, 25 NASL players and 25 MLS players plus a couple dozed (bona ride and committed professionals) abroad.  The player pool is too shallow because there's not enough pro teams. 

*edit* The indication of how shallow our player pool is:. We don't have even 1 RB in the pool.  Also every time anyone is drafted in the MLS they're automatically someone we debate player if for the national team, let alone USL players.  They don't have those discussions on every player with other countries.

Edited by baulderdash77
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Oh I think we agree on lots already Blizz.  Wish we had even more pro teams (NASL or a CDN league) make that pathway for youngsters just a bit wider.  But I believe that if Cann, Attakora, hell even Issey, Dunfield, Paul Hamilton or Shawn Saiko had US green cards they would be kicking around a MLS roster.  That should be an easy fix for MLS.  Why are the labor laws for NASL one way and MLS different....boggles my mind.  

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59 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Oh I think we agree on lots already Blizz.  Wish we had even more pro teams (NASL or a CDN league) make that pathway for youngsters just a bit wider.  But I believe that if Cann, Attakora, hell even Issey, Dunfield, Paul Hamilton or Shawn Saiko had US green cards they would be kicking around a MLS roster.  That should be an easy fix for MLS.  Why are the labor laws for NASL one way and MLS different....boggles my mind.  

According to Sandor, Attakora does have a green card. Also, the rules in MLS and NASL are not different. Canadians are imports in both league. It was the USL that counted Canadians as domestics in the US. Not sure if that is still the case.

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7 hours ago, masster said:

According to Sandor, Attakora does have a green card. Also, the rules in MLS and NASL are not different. Canadians are imports in both league. It was the USL that counted Canadians as domestics in the US. Not sure if that is still the case.

Yeah, that's still the case.

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Nana Attakora provides the prime example that the sort of Canadian player that people think is being actively disadvantaged by the MLS roster rules is actually just not quite good enough to interest MLS teams. The other problem with the narrative on this is that most MLS teams have open roster spots available for additional international players, because the total number allowed was boosted in response to expansion to around 8 per team, which appears to be beyond the level that most teams actually want to use.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_International_Roster_Slots#Current_international_roster_slots_by_team

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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