Milan Borjan

[dyslexic nam]

Another game, another shut out.  

[SthMelbRed]

Red Star vs Milan in the Europa League Round of 32. Tough draw.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Red Star vs Milan in the Europa League Round of 32. Tough draw.

Classic match from the late 80s early 90s.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Red Star vs Milan in the Europa League Round of 32. Tough draw.

I had to read this three times before I clued in. I was interpreting Milan as Milan Borjan

[Shway]

VAR just bailed him out big time against AC Milan.

[narduch]

Could be 2-0 for AC Milan 😀

One goal called back due to offside.

A 2nd goal called back thanks to VAR. After Borjan made a bad judgment on a cross.

And now he made a nice diving save

 

[Floortom]

Milan goes up 1-0 with a soft OG

To be honest, I think Borjan still should have stopped it but maybe I’m being harsh

[narduch]

Red Star tie it up on a penalty

Wonder if these means that Ibra will sub on

 

[Bdog]

Ends 2-2 on a last minute header!

1 hour ago, Floortom said:

Milan goes up 1-0 with a soft OG

To be honest, I think Borjan still should have stopped it but maybe I’m being harsh

Yeah, it seemed like it kinda went under him, probably both their fault. The goal that was called back was also a pretty bad attempt to cut out the cross. 

He did make some good saves otherwise, not a bad game overall. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Proud to see this result. Only saw a few minutes. 

[Stryker911]

39 minutes ago, Bdog said:

Ends 2-2 on a last minute header!

Yeah, it seemed like it kinda went under him, probably both their fault. The goal that was called back was also a pretty bad attempt to cut out the cross. 

He did make some good saves otherwise, not a bad game overall. 

So a pretty typical Borjan game.

[archer21]

18 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

So a pretty typical Borjan game.

I always find it odd how harsh the board can be on defenders (Henry in particular) for mistakes they make, but Borjan seems to get a pass for the most part. He’s a fantastic shot stopper but he seems to be pretty error prone handling the ball, passing, and making decisions. Similar to how Henry has good pace, strength, etc but often has big mistakes that lead to goals. But Borjan seems to be a national treasure while Henry is viewed as a villain by many in our fan base.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I always find it odd how harsh the board can be on defenders (Henry in particular) for mistakes they make, but Borjan seems to get a pass for the most part. He’s a fantastic shot stopper but he seems to be pretty error prone handling the ball, passing, and making decisions. Similar to how Henry has good pace, strength, etc but often has big mistakes that lead to goals. But Borjan seems to be a national treasure while Henry is viewed as a villain by many in our fan base.

Probably because he is still our best?

[archer21]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

Probably because he is still our best?

Fair enough. I didn’t mean to be too harsh on Borjan, it was just an observation I had. I would also argue that Henry is (or at least was recently) our best as well.

[narduch]

I agree that we can be harsh on our defenders.

But I think all soccer fandom is like this. Because defender mistakes often lead to goals.

Even the best defenders in the world make mistakes. That's why every match isn't 0-0.

[PiedPilko]

Red Star really should've won that. Controversial no goal early on, and they missed 2 open nets in succession. Still impressive to pull off a 3-3 aggregate against Milan though.

 

Borjan made a good save in the first half, and managed to draw a yellow on Zlatan lol. Good distribution throughout.

Edited February 25, 2021 by PiedPilko

[Weng]

As an aside with these Europa league matches, I noticed that Cristante was a CB for Roma again.  Has he moved to a CB spot full time now?  

[Big_M]

hes playing some games in the midfield also but looks like hes able to get more starts at cb..what a mistake to join italy senior team

[Gian-Luca]

Milan (the player, not the team) with more than a few choice words for the refs and his opponents....

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Milan (the player, not the team) with more than a few choice words for the refs and his opponents....

As with a few other countries when reffing (Lille got bad reffing both legs, despite being inferior to Ajax) the Spanish refs in international play are often making stuff up as they go along. I remember one WC, perhaps Germany, when one ref broke the record for yellow cards, he got stuck on a dumb criteria and would not back down. Defects of an obsessive media culture in Spain that perverts the reffing. Even Spanish VAR is absurd at times.

Not all of them are bad, and Gil Manzano is not the worst (Mateu Lahoz, in contrast, is pure chaos); my favourite is Del Cerro Grande (Spanish refs are always referred to by their two surnames, a sort of tradition). But many are erratic and this is seen in the Spanish league too.

The reality is that if they are way over time the ref can call it when he wants, even in the middle of an attacking play. The chances of a final corner going their way are low. But it is the look of things: normally you give the corner, let the attacking play finish. 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The reality is that if they are way over time the ref can call it when he wants, even in the middle of an attacking play. The chances of a final corner going their way are low. But it is the look of things: normally you give the corner, let the attacking play finish. 

When this argument comes up, my position as a referee and instructor is, how is this fair to the defending team?

[SthMelbRed]

33 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

When this argument comes up, my position as a referee and instructor is, how is this fair to the defending team?

Unless I can argue that the amount of time I've added is an exact reflection of the time lost throughout the preceding half of football, I feel that I'm obligated to wait until a natural break in the flow of the match to blow the full-time whistle. In my mind, a defender putting the ball out for a corner kick is not an end to an attacking move. I'm usually inclined to allow the corner to be played before ending the game. That being said, I'm usually pretty clear about communicating with the players when 90 minutes have been played and how much time I intend to add. So, if I feel that a team lacks urgency when attacking when that time is clearly almost up, I'm less inclined to allow them leeway to complete the move. It's all down to the specific situation.

[Unnamed Trialist]

36 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Unless I can argue that the amount of time I've added is an exact reflection of the time lost throughout the preceding half of football, I feel that I'm obligated to wait until a natural break in the flow of the match to blow the full-time whistle. In my mind, a defender putting the ball out for a corner kick is not an end to an attacking move. I'm usually inclined to allow the corner to be played before ending the game. That being said, I'm usually pretty clear about communicating with the players when 90 minutes have been played and how much time I intend to add. So, if I feel that a team lacks urgency when attacking when that time is clearly almost up, I'm less inclined to allow them leeway to complete the move. It's all down to the specific situation.

Good explanation. 

I feel that most pro teams in a beneficial situation late in a game are delaying in all sorts of minor ways, and that whatever is added on, if not blatantly excessive,, is probably not enough. So let them finish the attacking play, which, as you say, is not finished if a defender sent it out for a corner. 

Same with 5-10 seconds left--if the team needing a goal is passing back and forth looking for the ideal cross in to the guys in the box, dawdling and not showing urgency, then whistle. If they send in a long ball and it is not cleared outright, don't call the play until it is fully finished, either cleared, gone to the sideline, a shot goes wide. Or a corner, which you let them play. In terms of real time it won't usually mean more than 10 seconds, most corners are usually resolved in less.

[One typical stubborn Spanish reffing job I recall was the Germany-Serbia in South Africa, when Undiano Mallenco red carded Klose and then went on to show another ten yellows or so. The second yellow m. 35 was borderline, though it could be justified; the rest was a mess]

Edited February 26, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[archer21]

1 hour ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

When this argument comes up, my position as a referee and instructor is, how is this fair to the defending team?

90% of referees let them play the corner though, so players are always going to feel hard done by when they have their chance taken away by the 10%. Even worse is if a ref allows a corner to be taken in one game and then blows the final whistle in another. It needlessly leads to teams feeling that they’re being screwed intentionally by the referees. In my opinion, rules are rules and should be called the same by everyone.

[An Observer]

11 hours ago, archer21 said:

90% of referees let them play the corner though, so players are always going to feel hard done by when they have their chance taken away by the 10%. Even worse is if a ref allows a corner to be taken in one game and then blows the final whistle in another. It needlessly leads to teams feeling that they’re being screwed intentionally by the referees. In my opinion, rules are rules and should be called the same by everyone.

This is why I have always believed in a game clock.  Too much discretion given to the ref which is subject to incompetence, corruption or bias whether intentional or not