Milan Borjan

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

I actually think the mistake leads to the huge gaffe on the second goal - Godinho thinking “no stupid back passes this time, must clear at all costs” so goes to whack it out of touch- and doesn’t know the second Haitian is there (which, while a naive gaffe on his part I do have some sympathy for since he would not suspect that he would need to mark two Haitian players in the same flank).

I agree - the first goal probably cemented his mindset that he absolutely had to shut that play down. Doesn’t excuse the bad tackle by an stretch but certainly set it up.  

[Corazon]

Lets not also forget that Godinho did he exact same thing in the first game vs Martinique but Borjan was able to bail him out of that play.  Two short back passes & a pk by Godinho in the 3 games he played for Canada this tournament.  Not to mention he was beat repeatedly in the 1st half vs Martinique and large portions of this game as well.

[lamptern]

2 hours ago, Corazon said:

Lets not also forget that Godinho did he exact same thing in the first game vs Martinique but Borjan was able to bail him out of that play.  Two short back passes & a pk by Godinho in the 3 games he played for Canada this tournament.  Not to mention he was beat repeatedly in the 1st half vs Martinique and large portions of this game as well.

This reminds me Sesselman who was the CB in women's team at 2015 WWC 1/8 final .

[Kent]

The first couple times I watched the goal, I thought Godinho made a bad pass, but Borjan made the bigger error by failing to react quickly, and then failing to clear. The more I watch it, the more Godinho's pass seems not actually that bad. Borjan backs up about 5 yards from the time Godinho kicks the ball. If he doesn't back pedal this is a very comfortable clearance or pass out of the back by Borjan. Someone mentioned maybe Godinho should be hitting it harder and at Borjan's feet are asking for a big risk of an own goal. His pass was directed just off to the side of the net and Borjan eventually made contact with the ball deeper on the field than he was standing (while back pedaling) when the ball was kicked.

For me it's about 10% Godinho and 90% Borjan in this case. I don't know that I want his starting spot taken away from him, because he certainly bails us out too. I haven't been watching Montreal this season so I don't know how well Crepeau is doing, so I don't have an informed opinion on who should be starting. I won't be upset with either starting against Cuba in the Nations League.

[Big_M]

Crepeau is with Vancouver

[SpursFlu]

48 minutes ago, Kent said:

The first couple times I watched the goal, I thought Godinho made a bad pass, but Borjan made the bigger error by failing to react quickly, and then failing to clear. The more I watch it, the more Godinho's pass seems not actually that bad. Borjan backs up about 5 yards from the time Godinho kicks the ball. If he doesn't back pedal this is a very comfortable clearance or pass out of the back by Borjan. Someone mentioned maybe Godinho should be hitting it harder and at Borjan's feet are asking for a big risk of an own goal. His pass was directed just off to the side of the net and Borjan eventually made contact with the ball deeper on the field than he was standing (while back pedaling) when the ball was kicked.

For me it's about 10% Godinho and 90% Borjan in this case. I don't know that I want his starting spot taken away from him, because he certainly bails us out too. I haven't been watching Montreal this season so I don't know how well Crepeau is doing, so I don't have an informed opinion on who should be starting. I won't be upset with either starting against Cuba in the Nations League.

All Borjan needed to do was put his Starbucks down and boot the ball down the field. Keepers deal with balls like that a couple times per game without incident. The only reason Godinho is getting any blame on that play is because people seem to have determined Godinho has a punch me face

 

Godinho, Piette.. those are our current scapegoats for anything it seems

Edited July 2, 2019 by SpursFlu

[Strait Red]

57 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Godinho, Piette.. those are our current scapegoats for anything it seems

Henry has his share of naysayers as well.

[rightback]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

The first couple times I watched the goal, I thought Godinho made a bad pass, but Borjan made the bigger error by failing to react quickly, and then failing to clear.

Sure, not a great pass, but with Borjan it was like watching slow-motion...I couldn't believe it.

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, Strait Red said:

Henry has his share of naysayers as well.

Yup.. even here with the Caps he needs to work twice as hard to stay out of the doghouse

[Kent]

8 hours ago, Big_M said:

Crepeau is with Vancouver

Oops. Yeah, forgot about that. Obviously I haven't been watching Vancouver either.

[red card]

8 hours ago, Kent said:

The first couple times I watched the goal, I thought Godinho made a bad pass, but Borjan made the bigger error by failing to react quickly, and then failing to clear. The more I watch it, the more Godinho's pass seems not actually that bad. Borjan backs up about 5 yards from the time Godinho kicks the ball. If he doesn't back pedal this is a very comfortable clearance or pass out of the back by Borjan. Someone mentioned maybe Godinho should be hitting it harder and at Borjan's feet are asking for a big risk of an own goal. His pass was directed just off to the side of the net and Borjan eventually made contact with the ball deeper on the field than he was standing (while back pedaling) when the ball was kicked.

For me it's about 10% Godinho and 90% Borjan in this case. I don't know that I want his starting spot taken away from him, because he certainly bails us out too. I haven't been watching Montreal this season so I don't know how well Crepeau is doing, so I don't have an informed opinion on who should be starting. I won't be upset with either starting against Cuba in the Nations League.

I said to myself in the first half that Borjan was acting way too casual. He kept on passing to the player in the middle surrounded by 2 Haitians rather using the outlets on the side. This type of passing led to the goal vs FG. 

For what it's worth, he was the only one I saw that didn't sign the anthem for this match - sang in other matches.

On the goal, Borjan made 4 mistakes: backpedalling, paused for a sec before advancing, went for the deke and then cussed out Godinho for a not perfect but more than acceptable pass. 

 

 

[Cheeta]

Still vote Godinho wears that goal 100%.  Only watched the youtube highlights (don't have the stomach yet to rewatch the match) but I'm not seeing anything but blame for the guy.

Nearly a million views on that vid by the way, if that's worth anything. 

[BearcatSA]

We (apportion blame as you wish) cocked that play up.  But even after that, at 2-1, we were still in control and should have won this match.

[The Real Marc]

These types of flubs are why Milan, as much as he’s my favourite, has probably found his level if he’s pulling in 400 000 Euros a year in Serbia.

Friendlies and experience would have taught Godinho that these type of situations are Borjan kryptonite. They’re both at fault.

[longlugan]

On 7/3/2019 at 12:17 AM, Cheeta said:

Still vote Godinho wears that goal 100%.  Only watched the youtube highlights (don't have the stomach yet to rewatch the match) but I'm not seeing anything but blame for the guy.

Nearly a million views on that vid by the way, if that's worth anything. 

Sorry...I don't see it that way. I would give maximum 5% blame to Godinho. I love Milan but this one was on him. Either way...shit happens...I'm not too worried about it and refuse to go into panic mode over this loss. Blame goes all the way around with Herdman bearing a little bit more responsibility obviously due to his substitution choices but even then I'm not in the " Fire Herdman now" camp like many people on here. Way too much panic spreading around...people need to relax and let him continue with his process. I'm sure he learned from this tournament and this game just like the players have. Nations League up next and looking forward to the games against the US but looking even more forward to 2022 qualifying to start.

[Obinna]

The blame is primarily on Godinho for this.

Go back and watch it again.

1. The Haitian player is already running towards Borjan before Godinho even makes the pass. Had he been more aware of his surroundings, he could have simply turned and play the ball elsewhere, with little pressure.

Godinho should have checked his left shoulder first. The pass back never had to happen. Points against Godinho.

2. The execution was terrible. Borjan was right to be mad. He was right to be back peddling before the pass. He was right to expect some more zip on it.

Godinho, to his credit, hit it away from goal, which is what you are suppose to do, but he underhit the pass big time. Points against Godinho.

I blame Borjan for not rescuing us from the danger Godinho put us in, but we should have never been put in that situation to begin with.

[Obinna]

On 7/2/2019 at 8:38 PM, red card said:

I said to myself in the first half that Borjan was acting way too casual. He kept on passing to the player in the middle surrounded by 2 Haitians rather using the outlets on the side. This type of passing led to the goal vs FG. 

For what it's worth, he was the only one I saw that didn't sign the anthem for this match - sang in other matches.

On the goal, Borjan made 4 mistakes: backpedalling, paused for a sec before advancing, went for the deke and then cussed out Godinho for a not perfect but more than acceptable pass. 

 

 

He is suppose to be backpedalling. This is not a mistake, that is the proper movement for this situation. No doubt they had countess reps in training on this.

The defender is suppose to pass the ball back, with pace, and Borjan is suppose to back pedal so that he has space and time to distribute out of the back.

Borjan is creating the space and the pace of the pass was suppose to create the time. Remember, the ball moves faster than the player (not this time though, thanks to Godinho).

If you really want to blame Borjan for his movement (which is silly, but let's entertain it), do you blame Godinho for his weak pass? Afterall, he was facing his keeper and he should have judged the distance better and played a stronger pass, right? 

Also, Godinho was under no pressure.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Obinna

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Lofty said:

But the pass back did happen and at that point it is all on Borjan. All he has to do is move forwards instead of backwards and he can clear it without incident. But he chooses to move backwards and that is on him, not Godinho (although it certainly was an ill advised back pass).

He was already moving backwards before the pass was even made. Watch it again. You are making it sounds like Godinho made the pass and then Borjan began his movement. That's not what happened, at all.

I guess you can blame Borjan for not reacting quickly enough to Godinho's poor pass, but easier said than done to change your momentum at the last minute.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Lofty said:

He wasn't exactly sprinting backwards! If he had reacted immediately to the pass as soon as it came, IMHO he would have cleared it easily. And players face situations all the time that require a quick response. In this case the required response did not come.

I think we can at least agree it was an ill advised back pass because of the proximity of the opponent.

Yeah, I can agree with the bolded statement, 100 percent with you there man.

But come on, seriously? He wasn't sprinting backwards, but so what? He was never getting to that ball first anyway. He's not Alphonso Davies. 

And when it comes to reaction time, I will say this: you can't immediately react to the unexpected. Can we agree on that?

Consider the PK. Almost always, the keeper is already in flight before the ball is kicked. The keeper can't immediately react to the kick, because by the time you judge the flight of the ball, decide which way to jump, and then actually jump, it is too already too late.

Unfortunately, time had to elapse between the moment Godinho passed the ball and the moment Borjan realized the pass wasn't getting to him. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Obinna

[El Diego]

I usually don't disagree with you Obinna but I have to here (and this is coming from a keeper). Godinho did really well to chest the ball down and the back pass was the right option. While he did under hit it a bit, Borjan still had plenty of time to come put his boot through it. Keep in mind this is not the first time we've seen Borjan cock up a similar play. This exact same thing happened versus French Guiana -- slightly under hit back pass that Borjan was too tentative on. He also got really lucky on a similar play in the group stage (I think it was Martinique?).

[Brethers8]

Agree with obinna, Borjan is moving backwards before the pass is made so he has more time and allows the ball to settle before he kicks it. It’s not a good back pass, and he’s right to be annoyed especially as that’s the second time this tournament Godinho has stitched him up with one. That must be played harder than it was, and I think Borjan doesn’t put his foot through the clearance because he fears it would ricochet off of Nazon and fly in the net which obviously didn’t work out well for him

And about the “shouting” let’s be honest, he shouts at him to play the ball harder and that’s it. He doesn’t embarrass godinho at all, that kind of stuff happens all the time on the pitch.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Brethers8

[Unnamed Trialist]

You can tell reading this thread that the majority of commentators do not watch clubs that regularly pass back to keepers. Those blaming Borjan simply have no experience watching how it is done properly. That is fine, but just admit you do not understand how you train it and execute it as a basic recourse. 

I can honestly say that in the entire past year, at FC Barcelona, over almost 60 games, with at least 8-10 back passes per game sometimes more, not once did a defender go back to the keeper as poorly as that. And we probably have the most skilful keeper with the ball at his feet in the world. 

If that play happened at FCB, hardly anyone would ever say it was anywhere near the keeper's fault, it'd be 98% fault of the defender. It comes down to what you expect of a player in a professional situation. Not to making up bulllshit based on hypothetical assumptions. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[king1010]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You can tell reading this thread that the majority of commentators do not watch clubs that regularly pass back to keepers. Those blaming Borjan simply have no experience watching how it is done properly. That is fine, but just admit you do not understand how you train it and execute it as a basic recourse. 

I can honestly say that in the entire past year, at FC Barcelona, over almost 60 games, with at least 8-10 back passes per game sometimes more, not once did a defender go back to the keeper as poorly as that. And we probably have the most skilful keeper with the ball at his feet in the world. 

If that play happened at FCB, hardly anyone would ever say it was anywhere near the keeper's fault, it'd be 98% fault of the defender. It comes down to what you expect of a player in a professional situation. Not to making up bulllshit based on hypothetical assumptions. 

 

Just quoting this bold part for a laugh

must be true though. Unamed Traliist clearly has superior knowledge than the majority of posters here because he watches FC Barcelona weekly. 😋

I'll also be the first to admit I do not understand how to train a back pass and execute it as a basic recourse! I guess thats why I still see the blame falling 50/50 btw the 2 players!

Edited July 5, 2019 by king1010

[Obinna]

14 hours ago, Lofty said:

But we can agree to disagree. It wouldn't be fun if we all saw things the same way. 😊

Agree

[Obinna]

11 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You can tell reading this thread that the majority of commentators do not watch clubs that regularly pass back to keepers. Those blaming Borjan simply have no experience watching how it is done properly. That is fine, but just admit you do not understand how you train it and execute it as a basic recourse. 

I can honestly say that in the entire past year, at FC Barcelona, over almost 60 games, with at least 8-10 back passes per game sometimes more, not once did a defender go back to the keeper as poorly as that. And we probably have the most skilful keeper with the ball at his feet in the world. 

If that play happened at FCB, hardly anyone would ever say it was anywhere near the keeper's fault, it'd be 98% fault of the defender. It comes down to what you expect of a player in a professional situation. Not to making up bulllshit based on hypothetical assumptions. 

I fully agree. I also get the sense people blaming Borjan have never played at a level or in a team where you played out of the back through your keeper.

Even if you played as a centre back, at any decent senior level in Canada, you will find yourself in situations where you must back pedal to create space and angle to receive a backwards pass. This is a very basic and common movement. 

If your teammate under hits the pass, like Godinho, you don't stop back pedalling immediately and rush forward,  that is completely unrealistic. What happens is you are caught back pedalling as the ball is traveling, perhaps for a second or two, because that's how long it takes you to realize the back pass is not reaching you. By then you may have already dropped the 6 yards @Lofty mentions. 

Edit: @hamiltonfan read the last paragraph of this post. It further explains what I am talking about.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Obinna