WCQ - El Salvador vs. Canada, 17th Nov. 2015 GAME Thread

[BuzzAndSting]

Canada needs some Honduras/El Salvador draws badly next round or for them to split the series. I understand why Floro wasn't more aggressive in this games so early in qualification but as so many others have said it was probably go for it here or have it all come down to a re-run of last qualification.

Floro should also have been thinking about rotation with Akidele, Haber and Teibert starting. There were always going to be a lot of dead legs out there.

I know Larin is young and experienced but I would never start Haber over him if he's healthy.

And where would you have put Russ? Out right over Rickets maybe but not in the middle, Julian, Hutch and Willen all played well.

[nolbertos]

I don't understand this "positive result" talk. Why can every other team occasionally get a win away in Central America? I mean, the U.S does it all the time. 

This was the most ideal situation we'll ever be presented with to get an away win in Central America, but we didn't even seize it. Why? What's so impossible about beating a B team in cooler evening weather in a half filled stadium? What makes things so impossible for us? I just don't get it.

I think it has to do that Mexico and the USA get results in Central America because they can and have make it to the World Cup consistently over the past 20 plus years.  Canada hasn't made a World Cup in over 30 years now and unlike the last WCQ, we actually have 4 points, which we "should" have.  I think this round of WCQ has started conservative and the Mexico matches will see how we fare. I honestly don't think we have the firepower to beat or tie the Mexicans, but who knows, Floro seems to have mastered the art of defending and bunkering that maybe he thinks a tie in Vancouver and Azteca is possible with his turtle, turtle tactics.  Lets the results play themselves and by Game 4, we'll have a better understanding of what we truly need to make the Hex.  If it's a tie or win at San Pedro Sula that seals our fate, then so be it, that would be my perfect ending to this round of qualifying, as we can't play scared forever in Central America.

[lazlo_80]

not quite to either extreme I'm seeing on this board...it's just a shame we'll all likely be scoreboard watching those march games as they'll arguably play a bigger factor in our chances than how we do against Mexico.

[Yohan]

Frankly, I don't expect to get any points from the 2 Mexico matches, especially with negative tactics Floro is using. I hate the fact that Canada played to not to lose against ES B squad. 

You have to take a risk somewhere. 3 pts this game buys Canada a little wiggle room for mistakes later on. Now, Canada have to get a result against ES at home, plus probably 3 points elsewhere. This game was perfect for a little more flexibility from Floro but he couldn't read the conditions right. 1 point now may not make the difference vs losing this game. 

It's so frustrating to watch Canada throw away 2 points because Floro can't see that you can't play a ground passing game on this kind of pitch, and playing on a counter vs a weak ES squad.

[reme90]

More crosses into the box would have been nice. And since when do we not know how to run set pieces?

OTher than that, keeping it half full for now. 

[Yohan]

As for Larin, what can he do when he doesn't get enough service, and he's asked to hold up the ball for CMs that plays too far back and doesn't get up the pitch quickly to support him? He's basically fending off 3 defenders by himself pretty much all game.

Hoofing the ball to Larin with no support from midfield or 2nd striker is might as well just give up the possession.

[lazlo_80]

one measly point against mexico would go such a long way...

[Yohan]

one measly point against mexico would go such a long way...

It'd be a fluke or a miracle to get a goal against Mexico if past year's worth of matches is any indication. 

I can't see Canada holding off Mexico, and once Canada goes down a goal and have to chase the game, Mexico will destroy Canada on the counter.

[BuzzAndSting]

It'd be a fluke or a miracle to get a goal against Mexico if past year's worth of matches is any indication. 

I can't see Canada holding off Mexico, and once Canada goes down a goal and have to chase the game, Mexico will destroy Canada on the counter.

Means nothing.

[BuzzAndSting]

As for Larin, what can he do when he doesn't get enough service, and he's asked to hold up the ball for CMs that plays too far back and doesn't get up the pitch quickly to support him? He's basically fending off 3 defenders by himself pretty much all game.

Hoofing the ball to Larin with no support from midfield or 2nd striker is might as well just give up the possession.

Larin gave up on a few balls late and he gave up on pressure late. Maybe because he knew he wasn't going to be subbed off but he didn't exactly demonstrate that he "gave it his all." He may rely on service from Kaka when with Orlando but he should be able to adapt when playing with Canada. I don't think he had a terrible game but I question his "compete" level. If he wants to take the next step he needs to make things happen on his own sometimes.

[Yohan]

Larin gave up on a few balls late and he gave up on pressure late. Maybe because he knew he wasn't going to be subbed off but he didn't exactly demonstrate that he "gave it his all." He may rely on service from Kaka when with Orlando but he should be able to adapt when playing with Canada. I don't think he had a terrible game but I question his "compete" level. If he wants to take the next step he needs to make things happen on his own sometimes.

It's something that Larin does need to work on.

But poor kid has one year of pro experience under his belt, and he's basically expected to be saviour of Canada (which pretty much runs on 2 people to create offence) and he's probably feeling the pressure and frustrated. Floro isn't exactly setting him up for success, and everyone is expecting to be a complete forward right now.

[mowe]

We will look back at this game like 0-0 at home vs Honduras last time.

Massive failure. 

This is exactly like the last cycle. Both times had Honduras at home and the weakest team on the road in the first window. We needed 6 points then and we needed 6 points now. The "4 points in 2 games is a good start" line of thinking assumes we can pick up points against Mexico, which I personally think is highly unlikely.

Assuming we beat El Salvador and Honduras loses at Mexico on the last matchday, these are the two most probable scenarios for the rest of the group stage:

1) Honduras gets 6 points vs El Salvador. In this case we would need a result in Honduras OR a win vs Mexico to advance.

2) Honduras gets 4 points vs El Salvador. We'd need a result in Honduras OR a point in one of two games vs Mexico.

Since I don't think our bunker will hold against the quality of players Mexico will be throwing at us, we are again looking at going to San Pedro Sula needing a result...

[Admin]

The one thing I did see, which surprised me, was a soccer game.  Not 90 minutes of epic CONCACAF central american fuckery.

EDIT:  removed not. Thanks Coramoor!

[Coramoor]

The one thing I did not see, which surprised me, was a soccer game.  Not 90 minutes of epic CONCACAF central american fuckery.

I assume you mean, the one thing you did see.

Also Geiger was always going to be a favourable ref for us, same as the Jamaican ref was favourable for us because both of them ref leagues with more physicality than the CA leagues. Geiger didn't let the El Salvadorans get away with anything.

[CUJO]

Best case scenario, we end up with 9 points (win vs SLV, draw vs MEX, @ HON, loss @ MEX). Is that enough?

 

http://ultra.zone/2018-FIFA-World-Cup-qualification-CONCACAF-Fourth-Round#group=a

[BrennanFan]

WE HAVE 4 POINTS.  HONDURAS HAS ZERO.  WE ARE OK.

The team did reasonably well.  Floro's system worked and created chances.  We had 2 excellent chances and 3 or 4 half chances. We didn't convert, that's football.  Floro isn't going to panic with a tie game on the road.  Lets really think about this: If we had gone with Haber instead of Edgar and pushed for a goal, is it more likely that we convert a chance or concede on a counter?  At best there's a 50/50 chance we win or lose - way too risky at this stage.  Floro made the right decision in the circumstances.

Larin was fine, almost scored twice.  Ricketts did what he could going forward (assisted on that excellent chance that Hoilett almost converted in the first half) and tracked back nicely.  You can't get mad at a dog for not being able to read a math textbook.  Ricketts gives us all he's got every time and he knows and sticks to the system - he is disciplined - his engine and his disciplined understanding of his role is what keeps Issey and Teibert on the bench.    

We need to be realistic.  We are who we are.  This is a golden point, a point we haven't been able to achieve in a decade.  We have to walk before we can run.  Little by little we are building our reputation: we are firm in our system, our 3 mids are excellent on the ball, our defence is hard to beat and our keeper saves our back bacon as required.  

I dont see us losing both games against Mexico.  We have always played Mexico tough, a tie is normal.  They will go for the win, for sure, but they will be satisfied with a tie on the road given their 6 points already in the bank.  I verily believe Floro's system is built to get these golden ties in tough situations where we are outmatched, such as against Mexico at home and Honduras away.

This was never going to be easy.  Its going to be a dog fight until the last matchday.  We're good.    

     

 

 

 

[Admin]

I assume you mean, the one thing you did see.

Also Geiger was always going to be a favourable ref for us, same as the Jamaican ref was favourable for us because both of them ref leagues with more physicality than the CA leagues. Geiger didn't let the El Salvadorans get away with anything.

Edited my post...

Cheers

 

[Steedman]

Happy the boys didn't get bags of piss thrown on them*

*That I saw

[One American]

e. I honestly don't think we have the firepower to beat or tie the Mexicans, but who knows, Floro seems to have mastered the art of defending and bunkering that maybe he thinks a tie in Vancouver and Azteca is possible with his turtle, turtle tactics.

Bunkering? What games were you watching?

[1zzurri]

Murphy's law..............Don't really know what to say. We just left a crack in the door open and if history has any say, Honduras will put their foot in that crack and slowly but surely open it up until they squeeze through on day 6. I am afraid we just blew our chance at the HEX which should sound ridiculous since were second in the group undefeated but this reeks of two losses to mexico and away loss to Honduras (max 1 point in those 3 games). With a win vs El Salvador at home we go to maximum 8 points-if we can grab a point in those 3 games- but most likely 7 points if we lose all 3 vs mexico and Honduras. We wont go through with 7. This is how you kill dreams. We were gifted a chance here and did not take it. I hope I am wrong but, once again, Canadian soccer and hope have a rough history. I hope I am wrong.

[Kusch to the Corner]

WE HAVE 4 POINTS.  HONDURAS HAS ZERO.  WE ARE OK.

The team did reasonably well.  Floro's system worked and created chances.  We had 2 excellent chances and 3 or 4 half chances. We didn't convert, that's football.  Floro isn't going to panic with a tie game on the road.  Lets really think about this: If we had gone with Haber instead of Edgar and pushed for a goal, is it more likely that we convert a chance or concede on a counter?  At best there's a 50/50 chance we win or lose - way too risky at this stage.  Floro made the right decision in the circumstances.

Larin was fine, almost scored twice.  Ricketts did what he could going forward (assisted on that excellent chance that Hoilett almost converted in the first half) and tracked back nicely.  You can't get mad at a dog for not being able to read a math textbook.  Ricketts gives us all he's got every time and he knows and sticks to the system - he is disciplined - his engine and his disciplined understanding of his role is what keeps Issey and Teibert on the bench.    

We need to be realistic.  We are who we are.  This is a golden point, a point we haven't been able to achieve in a decade.  We have to walk before we can run.  Little by little we are building our reputation: we are firm in our system, our 3 mids are excellent on the ball, our defence is hard to beat and our keeper saves our back bacon as required.  

I dont see us losing both games against Mexico.  We have always played Mexico tough, a tie is normal.  They will go for the win, for sure, but they will be satisfied with a tie on the road given their 6 points already in the bank.  I verily believe Floro's system is built to get these golden ties in tough situations where we are outmatched, such as against Mexico at home and Honduras away.

This was never going to be easy.  Its going to be a dog fight until the last matchday.  We're good.    

     

 

 

 

like your optimism. Can't say I share it completely. I think it's now almost a certainty that we need a result in Honduras, but given this group if you told me we'd be in this position a year ago I'd have taken that. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Not sure if I'm optimistic or bad at math... Isn't all the pressure in now on Honduras? The need to beat us at home, take 6 points from El Salvador and, to be safe, take a point off Mexico at Azteca.

A win for us at home against El Salvador and a draw in Honduras likely put us through. If we had 6 points, wouldn't we be saying the same thing? I believe our only consolation would be that Honduras would need to be us by 2 or more at home to take the tie-breaker.

If Honduras drops one point to El Salvador, 1-0 nil losses are probably fine from here on in as long as we beat El Salvador at home. (Assuming the first tie-breaker is goal difference).

[snake]

Also remember that Canada's euro based players will be in very fine in season form in march vs Mexico as well a Canadian such as hoilett, s Jackson could really be catching on in their domestic league at the time,out MLS contingent will be just starting off their 2016-17 MLS season and could really gel if Canada tries another couple of friendly a of North American based players between January and march. Canada had a B team in 2005 and uncovered a lot of great players in that exhibition series in Vancouver vs hearts and millwall.

[pint]

So to get through in most groups you need 10pts. Usually that means winning your home games and getting a result on the road and if that's the path you have in your head we are in a good position. 

 

I think the reason many people are viewing it as dropped points is due to Mexico. We had shifted away from idea that wins at home and result on the road to the idea that winning the 3 least difficult matches and draw another would be the best path? Hon at home and both vs El salvador are easier than the Mexico clashes or a trip to San Pedro Sula. 

At this point it is unlikely to get 10 pts, realistically 7 or 8 is now our target. 

With 7 pts we need:

Mexico to run the table

And the neither Honduras or El Salvador to get more than 3 pts next series. 

With 8 pts:

Mexico takes max pts off of Hon and SLV dropping 1 PT to us. 

Hon and SLV draw once in their series

***I'm sure their are other scenarios but these are the two that stick in my mind*** 

[theaub]

Murphy's law..............Don't really know what to say. We just left a crack in the door open and if history has any say, Honduras will put their foot in that crack and slowly but surely open it up until they squeeze through on day 6. I am afraid we just blew our chance at the HEX which should sound ridiculous since were second in the group undefeated but this reeks of two losses to mexico and away loss to Honduras (max 1 point in those 3 games). With a win vs El Salvador at home we go to maximum 8 points-if we can grab a point in those 3 games- but most likely 7 points if we lose all 3 vs mexico and Honduras. We wont go through with 7. This is how you kill dreams. We were gifted a chance here and did not take it. I hope I am wrong but, once again, Canadian soccer and hope have a rough history. I hope I am wrong.

Yeah Honduras definitely put their foot in the crack by losing at home to Mexico....

This idea that Honduras is some unassailable world soccer power who are just going to romp through El Salvador twice and then us (and then get a point at Azteca according to some!) is frankly ludicrous.