Ballou Tabla

[Unnamed Trialist]

They've given him #9, so that is an encouraging sign. 

He's not been called into the squad for the weekend game in Córdoba, I guess he'll need some time to settle in. 

Alba fans, from reading forums and their twitter accounts, are in general a bit pessimistic about signings, they sold in the window and feel they have not recovered the same value with the newcomers. I'm not sure, the core is damn competitive. 

The coach, Ramis, is an ex-Real Madrid who got his debut with Floro in fact. He played top flight for years, then went back to coach at Madrid and actually replaced Zidane in front of the reserve team when Zinedine was moved into the top spot. Since he knows how to handle young academy players, and the team is getting results way over their budget and possibilities, have to say it's a good person for Ballou to be under.

[Mikmacdo]

I think he will have a hard time even making the first 18. 

[ghostknownunknown]

33 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I think he will have a hard time even making the first 18. 

Why?

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

49 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I think he will have a hard time even making the first 18. 

Yeah, why? He's already played in 2nd division, he's used to it.

Also, he is technically replacing Mathias Olivera, who is also an attacking winger, whose loan ended with them. Olivera is also a young player, he played in 15 games with them out of 22, had a goal. Ballou can do that.

I would agree that he is likely to be asked to fulfil a role and may not start.

[Mikmacdo]

OKay maybe I over exaggerated but he was struggling for Barcelona B and they play in a lower division. 

[apbsmith]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The coach, Ramis, is an ex-Real Madrid......

I'm curious if you would have any idea, how much influence the coach would have had with this transfer? As we know, every club operates a bit differently with manager's requests etc (specific player, and/or player in that position, and/or upper management just went for it because it appears many teams were making inquiries?).  Kind of curious on the managerial structure of the club itself, difficult for me to find or understand anything online.

From the sound of it, with multiple teams showing interest, playing time would have been important for Barcelona & Tabla. Also, based on their roster and what you said, it looks like he should get an opportunity.  Hopefully all his training with a world class club pays off and he takes this opportunity and runs with it. Best of luck to him.

[apbsmith]

17 hours ago, fmfranck said:

It just so happens that I'm in an intellectual property class. It seems that the usage of this "Impact" image is clearly a violation. 

Sorry for nit picking haha... but I don't see any violation using a logo free black and blue kit....however, the true source of the image itself might be a different story ?.

Edited February 1, 2019 by apbsmith

[El Diego]

18 hours ago, fmfranck said:

It just so happens that I'm in an intellectual property class. It seems that the usage of this "Impact" image is clearly a violation. 

Any chance you can give a brief run down/crash course? It's not that I don't believe you, I just know zero about IP law and certainly don't remember enough from prop to know what's going on.

[fmfranck]

35 minutes ago, El Diego said:

 Any chance you can give a brief run down/crash course? It's not that I don't believe you, I just know zero about IP law and certainly don't remember enough from prop to know what's going on.

 

56 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Sorry for nit picking haha... but I don't see any violation using a logo free black and blue kit....however, the true source of the image itself might be a different story ?.

I'm not used to explaining legal matters in English, but I'll try my best.  

Well basically the Impact logo has been photoshopped out of this image. This is the current Impact 1st team kit, and judging from Ballou's hair color, that picture would've been taken in the summer of 2017, at which point his image rights were probably owned by the Impact or MLS. 

1. As a photograph, it is considered an artistic work. 2. In this case, we can assume that the Impact are the author of this image (I havent been able to find the image myself, but it clearly seems to be a promo image). 3. In such case, depending on image rights arrangements between MLS and the Impact, the image is owned by either one of these companies. Indeed, a work's initial author owns the copyright for this work (art 13 of the copyright act), but those rights can be transferred to someone else by convention. 4. With the copyright to this work, the Impact (or MLS) has "the sole right to produce or reproduce the work or any substantial part thereof". 5. Since this is clearly a reproduction of a "substantial part" of the work, it infringes on the Impact's copyright as it does not constitute fair dealing according to art 29 of the Copyright Act ("Fair dealing for the purpose of research, private study, education, parody or satire does not infringe copyright.").

That's pretty much the gist of it. 

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

I'm not used to explaining legal matters in English, but I'll try my best. 

You're selling yourself short!

Thanks for the explanation, very insightful!

[apbsmith]

48 minutes ago, El Diego said:

Any chance you can give a brief run down/crash course? It's not that I don't believe you, I just know zero about IP law and certainly don't remember enough from prop to know what's going on.

Fmfranck right about Intellectual Property law, however I do not see a "clear violation".

The below is not legal advice and my opinion only ?:

Will try to keep it short: (Keep in mind there will always be loopholes or "interpretations of the legislation (laws)" etc. etc.

1) IP law has a handful of different umbrellas. Think intellectual property as something you created or owned and the laws are created to protect the owner/creator. 

2) IP law also protects the image/appearance of an organization or company.  Ie: you can't go around selling Hamburger's with a big M on it, as you would be violating a trademark of that company and/or misrepresenting.

3) A good layman expression would be "don't steal" or if you want to use something "ask permission".

-----

As for the image itself (Trademark):

With the logos removed you would have a hard time to raise the argument of a trademark law being violated against the Impact.

1) Very hard time in court that a black and blue kit with no logos is a direct tie to the Montreal Impact.

2) They are also making no attempt to reference "Impact" or use any of their trademarks.

3) Although embarrassing, at first I didn't even realize it was an "Impact style" kit and my men's league all use 2 color logoless striped jersey's.

4) Watching poker last night on TV , TSN or ESPN blotched out the company sports logo of the guy's hat. Standard practice.

5) No financial , reputation, or character damage  suffered by the Impact (that would be more for course of legal action, in relation to compensation).

-------

As for the image itself (Copyright):

1) This image itself, falls under the umbrella of copyright law because someone took this photo. So the photographer becomes the true owner of the photo.

This is where it gets a bit tricky:

a) In theory, they should have asked permission to use the photo from the source, and who knows maybe they did.

b) Important: was it an independent photographer who took the original? Was it a photographer working for the Impact? working for MLS? or working for a different news media outlet? or perhaps an independent contractor (photographer) working at the time and they sold that photo. If that is the case, did they sell the photo or provided a fee for use of this photo?  All those are important to know and a key determining point. Clearly, at this time we do not know.

c) Also important: maybe the photo was taken from a social media site, in that case likely nothing to worry about. You know the Terms & Conditions people sign on facebook, instagram etc.  when they sign up? You essentially give up your ownership/public usage rights of your photos. I don't own either so I can't comment much further, haven't read the T&C's... what if they took a photo directly from Tabla's IG or someone else's? Now the onus could shift to that person.

d) Also important: no idea of Spanish copyright laws. Certain countries really protect their citizens and have very "loose" copyright laws. Certain countries have laws that you can basically share any photo on the internet without needing to give credit.

-----

I just don't see a "clear" violation of IP, yet anyways, simply way to many unanswered variables, also maybe they even got permission with the direction to remove the logos? We don't know. Perhaps come back with the true source of the image and the owner of the image and you might have copyright under IP, even then I still think it is a reach. As for trademark... no chance IMO.

 

[El Diego]

17 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

That's pretty much the gist of it. 

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to post that, I know it can be annoying to talk about the law in your spare time.

[apbsmith]

18 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

 

 the summer of 2017, at which point his image rights were probably owned by the Impact or MLS. 

 

Read this after my post, good point. Even then, I would still argue the jurisdictional aspect as well.

 

[fmfranck]

10 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Fmfranck right about Intellectual Property law, however I do not see a "clear violation".

The below is not legal advice and my opinion only ?:

Will try to keep it short: (Keep in mind there will always be loopholes or "interpretations of the legislation (laws)" etc. etc.

1) IP law has a handful of different umbrellas. Think intellectual property as something you created or owned and the laws are created to protect the owner/creator. 

 2) IP law also protects the image/appearance of an organization or company.  Ie: you can't go around selling Hamburger's with a big M on it, as you would be violating a trademark of that company and/or misrepresenting.

 3) A good layman expression would be "don't steal" or if you want to use something "ask permission".

 -----

 As for the image itself (Trademark):

With the logos removed you would have a hard time to raise the argument of a trademark law being violated against the Impact.

 1) Very hard time in court that a black and blue kit with no logos is a direct tie to the Montreal Impact.

2) They are also making no attempt to reference "Impact" or use any of their trademarks.

3) Although embarrassing, at first I didn't even realize it was an "Impact style" kit and my men's league all use 2 color logoless striped jersey's.

 4) Watching poker last night on TV , TSN or ESPN blotched out the company sports logo of the guy's hat. Standard practice.

5) No financial , reputation, or character damage  suffered by the Impact (that would be more for course of legal action, in relation to compensation).

-------

As for the image itself (Copyright):

1) This image itself, falls under the umbrella of copyright law because someone took this photo. So the photographer becomes the true owner of the photo.

This is where it gets a bit tricky:

a) In theory, they should have asked permission to use the photo from the source, and who knows maybe they did.

 b) Important: was it an independent photographer who took the original? Was it a photographer working for the Impact? working for MLS? or working for a different news media outlet? or perhaps an independent contractor (photographer) working at the time and they sold that photo. If that is the case, did they sell the photo or provided a fee for use of this photo?  All those are important to know and a key determining point. Clearly, at this time we do not know.

 c) Also important: maybe the photo was taken from a social media site, in that case likely nothing to worry about. You know the Terms & Conditions people sign on facebook, instagram etc.  when they sign up? You essentially give up your ownership/public usage rights of your photos. I don't own either so I can't comment much further, haven't read the T&C's... what if they took a photo directly from Tabla's IG or someone else's? Now the onus could shift to that person.

 d) Also important: no idea of Spanish copyright laws. Certain countries really protect their citizens and have very "loose" copyright laws. Certain countries have laws that you can basically share any photo on the internet without needing to give credit.

 -----

I just don't see a "clear" violation of IP, yet anyways, simply way to many unanswered variables, also maybe they even got permission with the direction to remove the logos? We don't know. Perhaps come back with the true source of the image and the owner of the image and you might have copyright under IP, even then I still think it is a reach. As for trademark... no chance IMO.

 

12

Yes, I started to think about some of these possibilities (especially the context you give in points b) and c) and d)) whilst reading my post, but I didnt want to spend much more time on it. Thanks for putting it into context. I definitely overreached by saying that it was a "clear violation". 

Edited February 1, 2019 by fmfranck

[El Diego]

11 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Fmfranck right about Intellectual Property law, however I do not see a "clear violation".

<snip>.

Thank you, as well. A lot of that made sense to me.

[apbsmith]

2 minutes ago, fmfranck said:

Yes, I started to think about some of these possibilities (especially the context you give in points b) and c) and d)) whilst reading my post, but I didnt want to spend much more time on it. Thanks for putting it into context. I definitely overreached by saying that it was a "clear violation". 

Merci mon ami, you know your stuff, good luck with school.

 

Sorry to derail the thread... you can tell it is a Friday haha ?

[jpg75]

Do we know if Tabla's IP rights were also loaned out?

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

OKay maybe I over exaggerated but he was struggling for Barcelona B and they play in a lower division. 

He wasn't struggling, 2B is a hard division in Spain, I know folks don't believe me but the competitive level is high.

In fact, to be straight, he looked just as good in 2A  last season as a division lower this season, for a simple reason: teams play more openly, they are not there just to beat up on a bunch of talented teens. In 2B it can be very tough and against Barça B rivals close down totally. I bet if you look at total played minutes he's in the top 7 or 8.

[Admin]

Thanks for all the updates on Tabla, keep em coming I enjoy reading them. 

...though at some point, your username may change to Stalker. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, apbsmith said:

I'm curious if you would have any idea, how much influence the coach would have had with this transfer? As we know, every club operates a bit differently with manager's requests etc (specific player, and/or player in that position, and/or upper management just went for it because it appears many teams were making inquiries?).  Kind of curious on the managerial structure of the club itself, difficult for me to find or understand anything online.

From the sound of it, with multiple teams showing interest, playing time would have been important for Barcelona & Tabla. Also, based on their roster and what you said, it looks like he should get an opportunity.  Hopefully all his training with a world class club pays off and he takes this opportunity and runs with it. Best of luck to him.

First I have tried but can't find anything on other teams possibly interested. I know that Barça has loaned to Las Palmas before, to Málaga, Granada. Relations with Deportivo are good. But no idea. Have to say though, the coach Ramis is actually Catalan, and they have players who are from Catalunya, so I see no bias in terms of who they sign. Another thing: Iniesta's sojourn at Barcelona has made Albacete a "friendly" club.  

The markets are complex and players are moving in all imaginable directions.

Second, Albacete like all clubs has a guy in charge of signings, usually the term is sporting director here. His name is Mauro Pérez and he is from the Canary Islands. But there is no specific Barça connection. 

I really do not know why Albacete has moved 5-6 players out and a similar in this window, some were loans going back because the team is doing very well, others were loaned out due to lack of minutes. I read they did not want to let Erice go to Whitecaps, he was captain and playmaker, but it seems he had a deal with Albacete in case of certain kinds of offers so they agreed, sounds like against their better judgement. 

Albacete comes to Tarragona an hour south of me on March 10, we'll see if it could be worth going.

[Big_M]

12th in minutes played at Barcelona B after matchday 22

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-barcelona-b/leistungsdaten/verein/2464/plus/0?reldata=%262018

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Big_M said:

12th in minutes played at Barcelona B after matchday 22

https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-barcelona-b/leistungsdaten/verein/2464/plus/0?reldata=%262018

Thanks for doing that, I'm a bit surprised, but it is true he has subbed out a lot, and in as well.

Still, no one can say that Ballou wanted a loan due to lack of minutes, even though I've read that in the press here. Sometimes I think they decide a player should loan out, then they sit him a few games to deliberately be able to feed these bogus stories to the press, "well yes, he wanted out because he wasn't playing."

In any case, if in Spanish 2nd there were more than a few bidders, sounds like people are watching, which is encouraging.

[toontownman]

Well the upside is hopefully playing minutes in a better league and Barca just loaning him. 

Downside is, given the number of times training with the first team Barca obviously dont think he is close to breaking through and getting first minutes this season.

Hopefully he can get settled, get minutes and tear it up!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Albacete came from behind, won without him, and are now leading the division and in a direct promotion spot to top flight. 

I honestly do not think that Albacete was designed to promote but if they did with Ballou figuring in an important way: would they then want to keep him in the upper division?

Question asked about three months too early....

[JuicyHam]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Albacete came from behind, won without him, and are now leading the division and in a direct promotion spot to top flight. 

I honestly do not think that Albacete was designed to promote but if they did with Ballou figuring in an important way: would they then want to keep him in the upper division?

Question asked about three months too early....

Yeah I think we'd have to see how he performs first. And as competitive as la Liga 2 can be it's a massive step to playing in the same league as Messi.