Ballou Tabla

[Keegan]

I hate to be a downer but I can’t see how he gets a call to the first team due to registration rules. 

Ballou isn’t eligible for La Liga correct?  He would take up one of three foreign spots and even if he was a European player he would need to be a 2000 or younger in order to not take up one of 25 registration slots.  Also, he isn’t eligible for the Champions League and isn’t likely to be registered for the knockouts (obviously). 

So we need to hope Barcelona smashes their next opponent in the first leg of their next Copa Del Rey tie and that’s his best chance IMO.  

[Blackdude]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I hate to be a downer but I can’t see how he gets a call to the first team due to registration rules. 

Ballou isn’t eligible for La Liga correct?  He would take up one of three foreign spots and even if he was a European player he would need to be a 2000 or younger in order to not take up one of 25 registration slots.  Also, he isn’t eligible for the Champions League and isn’t likely to be registered for the knockouts (obviously). 

 So we need to hope Barcelona smashes their next opponent in the first leg of their next Copa Del Rey tie and that’s his best chance IMO.  

If he has an Ivorian passport, he wouldn't be a foreign player. 

[shamrock]

2 hours ago, Blackdude said:

If he has an Ivorian passport, he wouldn't be a foreign player. 

Why not?

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Keegan said:

I hate to be a downer but I can’t see how he gets a call to the first team due to registration rules. 

Ballou isn’t eligible for La Liga correct?  He would take up one of three foreign spots and even if he was a European player he would need to be a 2000 or younger in order to not take up one of 25 registration slots.  Also, he isn’t eligible for the Champions League and isn’t likely to be registered for the knockouts (obviously). 

So we need to hope Barcelona smashes their next opponent in the first leg of their next Copa Del Rey tie and that’s his best chance IMO.  

I don't pay much attention to the three foreign spots, have to say, so you may be right. I think Cup might waive them as they allow B team players and not sure they have to be EU for that. As for Champìons, I think he may not quite qualify as an academy player, under the rules. 

So you may be right, but really, I am not fully sure, will try to look into that more clearly. 

[Blackdude]

6 hours ago, shamrock said:

Why not?

ACP. Yaya Touré didnt count as a foreign player at Barça for that reason.

[devioustrevor]

7 hours ago, shamrock said:

Why not?

France used to have a rule that African players didn't count against foreign player caps (I don't know if they still do), perhaps Spain has a similar rule.

[jpg75]

58 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

ACP. Yaya Touré didnt count as a foreign player at Barça for that reason.

Can you elaborate on what ACP means?

[Blackdude]

16 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Can you elaborate on what ACP means?

People from some African, Caribbean and Pacific countries are considered as domestic. Ivory Coast is one of them.

[Keegan]

17 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

People from some African, Caribbean and Pacific countries are considered as domestic. Ivory Coast is one of them.

Youre right there because I just learned the Spanish 3rd division allows zero foreign players, so he has to be “domestic”.

But either way, they’re not going to use one of 25 registration spots on him for La Liga.  Last season as a 99 he would have been able to play without being registered.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Keegan

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

Youre right there because I just learned the Spanish 3rd division allows zero foreign players, so he has to be “domestic”.

But either way, they’re not going to use one of 25 registration spots on him for La Liga.  Last season as a 99 he would have been able to play without being registered.

On that, you do not have to be part of the 25 registered players to play in the league, any team can call up B team players when in need, injuries for example. It is done all the time.

But still, I want to look at eligibility better, as I really do not know in detail.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

On that, you do not have to be part of the 25 registered players to play in the league, any team can call up B team players when in need, injuries for example. It is done all the time.

But still, I want to look at eligibility better, as I really do not know in detail.

I have to rely on football manager because I can’t find anything in English online.  I believe B players still need to be registered though if they are 19 or older.. so that could be the case for some call ups (ie Aleñá) while others could be u19 and not need to be registered.  I hope I’m wrong but this is my understanding.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Keegan

[apbsmith]

14 hours ago, devioustrevor said:

France used to have a rule that African players didn't count against foreign player caps (I don't know if they still do), perhaps Spain has a similar rule.

That was because the majority had ties to France(national team eligibility), so that rule was made. No idea about Spain though.

Edit: originally the rule applied to AFAIK (French colonies) but Blackdude  and Unnamed Trialist are correct, the Cotonou Agreement has been applied since 2000 for all African countries being considered domestic. However when you go through Ligue 1 rosters , the majority of "African Domestics" are French speaking African countries.

Edited December 11, 2018 by apbsmith

[Unnamed Trialist]

First question from @Keegan I've figured out (I think). Of the 25 players registered in the first team of a La Liga club, only three can be from outside the EU, which in the current case are Arturo Vidal, Malcolm and Arthur at Barça.

But any club can call up a player for a league game, to be one of the 18 selected (starters and bench) from any associated team (B, C, u-19, similar), if it wants to. And just as 7 players from the first team squad have to sit out each game regardless, they would do so for that game, plus another player, and the B team player would be in the call-up (this has happened with having two CBs injured, and Valverde calling up Chumi, Ballou's teammate, for about 5 games, in turn not calling up other 1st team players).

You are not obliged to play someone from the 1st team squad out of position to cover an injury. This is obvious for keepers, regardless, if the two keepers were injured, you call up the next two from the B or u-19, and one would play. And if one were non-EU, you'd be forced to sit on of your non-EU field players. There is no special regulation for keepers for this reason, they are treated exactly the same as other players (except for what numbers they are obliged to wear).

So with Malcolm injured a few weeks right now, Barça could call up Ballou and he could play as an attacker as one of the maximum three non-EU foreigners. I think this is correct.

EDIT: I have also been looking at the question of African players, what @Blackdude has called (rightly) ACP players, and what is officially the Cotonou Agreement from 2000 and good to 2020. The agreement established the right of sport and entertainment practitioners from the ACP nations to have the same rights as EU residents, and prohibits discrimination of the rights of these nationalities for working conditions.

Thanks about that as I did not know it. So on the basis of his Cote Ivoire passport, you'd be right, he could play and would not be counted as one of the three foreigners. But I do not know what his specific status, or if declaring as a player for Canada affects this. But good find, very interesting.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[Keegan]

@Unnamed Trialist if you look at Barcelona's statistics for this season you'll see that 26 different players have appeared on the pitch or bench for Barcelona this year.  Juan Miranda appears to be the one exception outside of the 25 man squad list because he is a 2000 and thus doesn't need to be registered.  21 players have played minutes in the league and there are 4 players who have appeared on the bench with out making an appearance: Chumi, Ezkieta, Pena and Cillessen - all players who are 19 or older and in my mind would seem to be registered for the 25 man squad.  

I'm really confident this is the case and Tabla will have to wait for the January window when they are able to make changes to the squad.  I don't disagree that teams can call up any player from the u-19 squad, but I don't believe they can call just any player from the B team - they need to be registered (or u19).  

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/spain/futbol-club-barcelona/2017/squad/ 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Keegan

[apbsmith]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

EDIT: I have also been looking at the question of African players, what @Blackdude has called (rightly) ACP players, and what is officially the Cotonou Agreement from 2000 and good to 2020. The agreement established the right of sport and entertainment practitioners from the ACP nations to have the same rights as EU residents, and prohibits discrimination of the rights of these nationalities for working conditions.

Thanks about that as I did not know it. So on the basis of his Cote Ivoire passport, you'd be right, he could play and would not be counted as one of the three foreigners. But I do not know what his specific status, or if declaring as a player for Canada affects this. But good find, very interesting.

Thanks for this, European immigration law is not my speacilty. 

Here is a very interesting legal response about a small Danish Superleague team which it appears, started the entire African players being domestically eligible under the Cotonou agreement.... Very interesting:

https://www.kaburakis.com/index.php/news-2/law-and-policy-developments/sport-and-eu/71-cotonou-agreement-application-in-eu-sport-labor-dk

Anyways, I can't see why Ballou would not be able to use a Cote D'Ivoire passport for "work purposes" thus making him a domestic(provided he has one).

Many Canadians work in the EU  as a result of having 2 passports.

I am sure Barcelona and his agent are all well aware of this..... Which should only aid in a potential opportunity for a callup to the 1st team within hopefully the next 3-24 months, :). All my opinion of course.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by apbsmith

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Keegan said:

@Unnamed Trialist if you look at Barcelona's statistics for this season you'll see that 26 different players have appeared on the pitch or bench for Barcelona this year.  Juan Miranda appears to be the one exception outside of the 25 man squad list because he is a 2000 and thus doesn't need to be registered.  21 players have played minutes in the league and there are 4 players who have appeared on the bench with out making an appearance: Chumi, Ezkieta, Pena and Cillessen - all players who are 19 or older and in my mind would seem to be registered for the 25 man squad.  

I'm really confident this is the case and Tabla will have to wait for the January window when they are able to make changes to the squad.  I don't disagree that teams can call up any player from the u-19 squad, but I don't believe they can call just any player from the B team - they need to be registered (or u19).  

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/spain/futbol-club-barcelona/2017/squad/ 

I am sure you are right, as I say, I pay too little attention to this stuff. Cilessen, Dutch international of course (and extremely good), and Peña and Ezkieta, are all keepers. The original third keeper for the team is now on loan. When a player is considered to have a long-term injury, their squad spot can be replaced (as with Rafinha now). But I do not know enough about what you are saying must admit.

[Keegan]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am sure you are right, as I say, I pay too little attention to this stuff. Cilessen, Dutch international of course (and extremely good), and Peña and Ezkieta, are all keepers. The original third keeper for the team is now on loan. When a player is considered to have a long-term injury, their squad spot can be replaced (as with Rafinha now). But I do not know enough about what you are saying must admit.

You’re right about the long term injury rule as well. 

Also, in August and January the squad list is open to changes so you could hypothetically call any player from the B team and keep switching your squad but then the list is locked after the window. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

 

Also training with the first team on Wednesday were these players from Barça B (Ballou included). Wague, by the way, is that great Senegalese fullback who was at the World Cup. I am pleased to see the core of B team starters get regular training with the first team, usually after a 1st team game when the previous night's starters do not train at full pace. It is usually to enable scrimmages. Of these, Riqui, Miranda and Chumi are the ones who go the most.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

Also training with the first team on Wednesday were these players from Barça B (Ballou included). Wague, by the way, is that great Senegalese fullback who was at the World Cup. I am pleased to see the core of B team starters get regular training with the first team, usually after a 1st team game when the previous night's starters do not train at full pace. It is usually to enable scrimmages. Of these, Riqui, Miranda and Chumi are the ones who go the most.

How do you rate Ballou's chances of making a first team appearance this season?

Also, as an aside, I see the Senegalese fullback has already won 12 caps for his country. Very impressive. I think he's the only other full international in the B team, no?

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 minutes ago, Obinna said:

How do you rate Ballou's chances of making a first team appearance this season?

Also, as an aside, I see the Senegalese fullback has already won 12 caps for his country. Very impressive. I think he's the only other full international in the B team, no?

Ballou could get minutes if we have some injuries. Right now, in fact, Suárez is not sharp physically, and Malcolm is out a few more weeks. But we'd have to be in a dire situation in attack for him to be called up. Or else, if we solve the away leg of the next Cup round, which is feasible, he could appear in the 2nd leg, as in January-Feb Spain plays round of 16, quarters and semis home and away: a lot of games. 

As for B team full internationals, we've had them in the past, like with Halilovic the Croatian, or before that the Israeli Gai Assulin. Right now, quite a few are Spain u-19 or 21, Carevic is a u-21 Montenegro keeper, Araujo a u-21 defender for Uruguay, McGuane had been an England u-19. So Ballou and Wague (who as I see it is way above the level of the B team, but was injured 3 months) are the only full internationals, as you say: I am also hopeful that Wague's presence and being French speaking will be positive for Ballou, as it seems to me he is really quite shy.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[Chad_Impact]

His goal is #3

[Blackjack15]

On 12/10/2018 at 6:46 AM, devioustrevor said:

France used to have a rule that African players didn't count against foreign player caps (I don't know if they still do), perhaps Spain has a similar rule.

Go look at Ligue 2, African players outnumber French players 

[Kadenge]

Hopefully Ballou is not hanging around with Dembele 

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Hopefully Ballou is not hanging around with Dembele 

I saw they were hanging on social media somewhere.. can’t recall where.

[Macksam]

20 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Go look at Ligue 2, African players outnumber French players 

I have my doubts...and that's not even taking into consideration the "African" players who are born and raised in France but rep their parents' country.