Ballou Tabla

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

I'm just praying for the day that we don't have to get on our knees and beg to have people play for us.

Consistently qualifying for the world cup will change that.

Instead of being the ugly girl at 2am at the bar, we'll become the cute one that will be getting free drinks

[Shway]

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Consistently qualifying for the world cup will change that.

Instead of being the ugly girl at 2am at the bar, we'll become the cute one that will be getting free drinks

Damn sad but great analogy 

[Moldy9]

Let's face it Canada is just a stepping stone to many of these kids. I agree we are the safer decision. Just like Arcadio said on the radio interview we will likely host the WC, he will be THE STAR on this team and get endorsements compared to having to fight for his spot on Ivory Coast and have to deal w nonsense like how Oyongo got stranded in Belgium with no plane ticket back to his club team. 

Ivory Coast is his family's desire and is an emotional decision. Canada is the more stable choice. 

Will he be the next Teal Bunbury listening to his Pops and getting relegated out of the international scene? We will see. If he chooses Ivory Coast good luck to him having to prove himself constantly but the grass ain't always greener on the other side and karma has a funny way of coming around. 

[One American]

oh, spare me about the youth teams and that poor player No. 23 who didn't make the roster and therefore just never got HIS FAIR CHANCE! 

All sorts of Canadian youth players don't make the cut as pros. Some Canadian players who did not feature much for youth teams have become solid pro players. Each case would probably happen with or without the youth team spot. 

The whole "He took up a youth team spot!" is just a way to try to fit something concrete to a general sense of disappointment. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by One American

[One American]

There's only one team that would pressing him for an answer right now. So I'm going to bet that he is going to announce for Canada. 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, One American said:

There's only one team that would pressing him for an answer right now. So I'm going to bet that he is going to announce for Canada. 

Hope you're right!

[toontownman]

2 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Damn sad but great analogy 

Yeah but even the ugly girls strike lucky sometimes! We just need to ply all these guys with enough beer goggles to go around. Waking up the morning, when reality of the situation hits it will be too late... brew hahahaha

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, One American said:

oh, spare me about the youth teams and that poor player No. 23 who didn't make the roster and therefore just never got HIS FAIR CHANCE! 

All sorts of Canadian youth players don't make the cut as pros. Some Canadian players who did not feature much for youth teams have become solid pro players. Each case would probably happen with or without the youth team spot. 

The whole "He took up a youth team spot!" is just a way to try to fit something concrete to a general sense of disappointment. 

So why give youth team chances to a kid that wont play for us as an adult? What kind of logic is that? If the CDN youth setup is going to coach him, send him out to u-17 tournies etc, it should be at least under a good faith type of understanding that the kid will continue to be Canadian.  If not, how does that help anybody but him?  And scroll up a bit, Tabla has been getting subsidized by the Gov AAP program.  How much more concrete can f#cking cash in your pocket be??  If he says he has every intention of following his dream to play for Ivory coast 4-5 years ago, Feds dont hand him (8 or 9 grand i think) cash to help him on his way to the pros.  

Now play for us or not, its up to him, go ahead and make your choice, but dont take all the advantages you can get from Canada(such as they are) and then jump ship.  Or at least dont be surprised if people are pissed at you for doing it that way.  

[A_Gagne]

12 hours ago, MtlMario said:

He been stringing us along enough already. Although I get your point.

WRT "stringing us along"... He's 18. Chill.

[toontownman]

This type of thing happens the world over and we might again benefit from it with david wotherspoon.  

Imo I think if they are getting subsidized and cash in the pocket by the canadian government to be coached through the system that is the point they should be signing some type of commitment to the national program.

If they want to go elsewhere it should be at the discretion of the csa and the player should potentially have to pay back any money given him and possibly compensation should be given by the opposite FA.

I know football is already too much of a business but I don't think countries should be piggy backing off others programs when they can grow their own.

I get dual nationalities and family conflicts I understand and respect players decisions and right to make them in those cases. However I don't think the programs that have supported them (if they have) should be shafted. 

[Boominbooty]

2 hours ago, toontownman said:

This type of thing happens the world over and we might again benefit from it with david wotherspoon.  

Imo I think if they are getting subsidized and cash in the pocket by the canadian government to be coached through the system that is the point they should be signing some type of commitment to the national program.

If they want to go elsewhere it should be at the discretion of the csa and the player should potentially have to pay back any money given him and possibly compensation should be given by the opposite FA.

I know football is already too much of a business but I don't think countries should be piggy backing off others programs when they can grow their own.

I get dual nationalities and family conflicts I understand and respect players decisions and right to make them in those cases. However I don't think the programs that have supported them (if they have) should be shafted. 

This is silly talk. What if a player doesn't try as much as they should and never hit their potential?  Do they owe their money back? What if a player realizes they aren't going to be the next Messi - so they quit early on but they've take money? Do they give money back. No. None of this happens. If you get your funding, you get it. We don't come and claw it back. Just as much as we don't claw back the education or health care funding a person might have used as a Canadian when they were growing up and then moved to another country as an adult. Time for people to put on their big kids pants and realize that we live in a country that allows free choice. He can play for our country or not. Period. What he received as far as funding is concerned is a non issue. 

[Moldy9]

Is it possible for someone to change this topic subject name to "The Importance of Ballou Tabla" lol. 

Honestly we are all wasting our time talking about this. I heard his agent is not going with neither Canada or Ivory Coast but rather the Chicago Fire national team to win the World Cup wirh Schweinsteiger. ?

[Moldy9]

And seriously what are his chances of Marc Wilmots picking him to play? Ballou's competition all play in the top leagues of France, England and Spain. If anything I don't think CI will be asking him to join anytime soon especially since they're doing well in their 2018 qualifying. 

[MtlMario]

10 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

WRT "stringing us along"... He's 18. Chill.

How long has he been playing for our youth teams and he still not sure he wants to play for us? How many more years do you think we should wait(and he runs out of all other options) till he comes to us?

[Offside]

It's just sad how everyone's so concerned on him to play for Canada and he hasn't decided, meanwhile I bet you there's a lot  of other good players out there that never got a chance of getting picked from the national team camps that would do anything to play for their home country where they were born in Canada

[Kent]

On 19/04/2017 at 11:13 AM, Bison44 said:

If he really wanted to go he should have been turning us down long before this and trying to get on with Ivory Coast.  

This just pushes the decision earlier. Now you are forcing a 15 year old kid (or whatever age) rather than an 18, or 20, or 25 year old, to make a decision that they can never go back from.

Since people always like to relate this to dating/marrying/whatevering women, this idea that he should commit to us before taking up a roster spot, or taking a grant from the government, is like saying that a girl you dated as a teenager owes you marriage, because you bought her dinner that one time. Why would she go out with you in the first place if she wasn't prepared to spend the rest of her life with you?!?!

There is a reason why FIFA changed the rules to allow a player to switch nations after they have played in youth tournaments. It's unfair to kids to lock them in to a decision that they make when they are so young, and just trying to get a foothold on a career.

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, Offside said:

It's just sad how everyone's so concerned on him to play for Canada and he hasn't decided, meanwhile I bet you there's a lot  of other good players out there that never got a chance of getting picked from the national team camps that would do anything to play for their home country where they were born in Canada

The only thing sad about that scenario is that those kids weren't/are good enough to make the national team.  Other than that, I don't think it is any more tragic than some kid getting cut from a Triple A hockey team or not making the provincial team or...  The reason there is such anxiety over Tabla is because he seems like the kind of player that could eventually help our program at the national level.  And as a new Canadian, he has just as much entitlement to be part of the program as who was born in Canada.

As for kids who weren't good enough to make the U18 or U23 national squads?  Okay, I get that they may be disappointed, but i am not going to feel guilty for not lobbying for their inclusion.  I may be oversimplifying it, but if they were good enough to play at that level, they would have played at that level.  Their absence from that level suggests that they likely aren't the kind of people that would elevate us on the international stage.  

[Moldy9]

8 hours ago, MtlMario said:

How long has he been playing for our youth teams and he still not sure he wants to play for us? How many more years do you think we should wait(and he runs out of all other options) till he comes to us?

That should be the next Voyaguer Poll Question. 

I say he will refuse the Gold Cup call up and hold out max 5 years.

Unless he tears it up in MLS I doubt Wilmots will bring him in for WCQ or 2018 WC.  If he's still available after 2022 Qatar I'm sure he'll jump onboard - it would be convenient for him w CAN (likely) hosting 2026.

[Moldy9]

7 hours ago, Kent said:

This just pushes the decision earlier. Now you are forcing a 15 year old kid (or whatever age) rather than an 18, or 20, or 25 year old, to make a decision that they can never go back from.

Since people always like to relate this to dating/marrying/whatevering women, this idea that he should commit to us before taking up a roster spot, or taking a grant from the government, is like saying that a girl you dated as a teenager owes you marriage, because you bought her dinner that one time. Why would she go out with you in the first place if she wasn't prepared to spend the rest of her life with you?!?!

 

I'll jump into the analogy game.

Ah I'd say it's not like the teenage girl you dated and took to McDs for a cheeseburger who you'd expect to marry you.

In this case I'd say it's more like the the young women that left the love of her life (Cote D'Ivoire) because he couldn't provide much but has been successful as of late. Then the lady ends up with another guy who is a little more stable, can provide her a decent future however he is a little quiet, boring, accident prone and has only been invited to the social club once(Canada). He proposes to the lady but unsure if she'll go with it. She says yes even though he is ugly and been dumped a couple times by other decent looking women (Hargves, Begovic, JDG2).

 He spent time and money in developing his fiancée seeing her potential and hopes she'll stay w him for a big return but the famous successful uncle of her ex who's been to the social club 3 times showed up (Drogba) and says how much the ex would like for them to get back together. 

[Offside]

You should know that soccer in Canada is all politics, theirs alot of good kids that can help Canada,

Edited April 21, 2017 by Offside

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Offside said:

You should know that soccer in Canada is all politics, theirs alot of good kids that can help Canada,

We know, it's sad that they're held back by an evil cohort of conspirators being paid by the Rothschild new world order to keep Canadian soccer from becoming world class.

[toontownman]

17 hours ago, Boominbooty said:

This is silly talk. What if a player doesn't try as much as they should and never hit their potential?  Do they owe their money back? What if a player realizes they aren't going to be the next Messi - so they quit early on but they've take money? Do they give money back. No. None of this happens. If you get your funding, you get it. We don't come and claw it back. Just as much as we don't claw back the education or health care funding a person might have used as a Canadian when they were growing up and then moved to another country as an adult. Time for people to put on their big kids pants and realize that we live in a country that allows free choice. He can play for our country or not. Period. What he received as far as funding is concerned is a non issue. 

I don't think using a general living benefit available to the entire country in the health care or arguably education is a fair comparison to some funding to a tiny majority of youth in Canada.

This is an Investment from the CSA rather than a basic human right and necessity being provided. Like any investment some work out and some don't. That is the risk of investment and also why professional scouts and committees are involved in picking players or handing funding out. If you have an investment you don't expect your financial consultant to take your investment for himself and give it to your mate instead of you when the stock is high, its sticking two fingers up at the time and money you have put into it. It should be protected. 

On the other side, as a player if you are choosing to enter into the national system, there to better yourself and Canadian Soccer, and also take funding from it you should be held accountable and be obligated to follow through with that commitment if you are able. Life happens if players don't make the grade or get injured that is totally different to turning your back on the country and people that have got you that far so you can go somewhere the grass is greener to do the same thing. 

You can call that freedom of choice but I can call that immoral.

There should be something to protect the investment from the CSA's side. It's not likely anyone under the age of 18 can legally sign anything to tie them to Canada but I don't think its unreasonable, their parents as guardians should be making those decisions until they are of age. I don't believe that any dual national should be denied the right to play for another country if that is what is in their hearts and they are eligible. However, if they are in and signed up for a funded Canadian program the should be committed to that program for the long haul. If this does for whatever reason change the CSA should imo be asked to release them and if another country wants the player the CSA has invested in they should be prepared to pay for that investment, should the CSA believe they are entitled to any. Likewise I don't think its unreasonable for the player to have give something back too. That isn't locking anyone into a program but it is protecting the program.

Maybe the CSA should be looking at it a different way,instead offering incentives to those that make it to the full mens/womens level like many provinces do with educators if they either stay in teaching or within the province. Maybe they do already? 

I don't know how these programs are funded and if tax payers pay for it so I realize I may be completely out to lunch on lots of these points, however protecting the investment is important wherever the money comes from, arguably even more so if it comes from tax payers. Players have a responsibility.

Choice is great, I am thankful I live in a country with lots of benefits, freedom of speech and a wide choice of activities for our kids and adults to choose to engage in but there is a prevalent air in society, where I am for sure, letting kids give up on things the minute the going gets tough, it's certainly the case with adults up to their early 30's too. There is always a new activity to try or move onto if you can't get instant success like you see on tv or get from resetting championship manager when Manchester United score that last minute injury time winner in the FA Cup Final against you. That creates a jack of all trades and master of none society with an attitude that its fun to try new things but when it gets too hard I can just drop it and move on to a new shiny toy. Commitment and perseverance is a major global problem in a on demand, instant gratification world. In this case it is personal gain vs community gain, too many people don't understand the latter benefits the former and they are interlinked. Agents and entourage often exacerbate the situation and serve only to build egos up to draw money rather than keep kids grounded, humble and focused. There is a basic lack of accountability.  

Waving off national player defections as freedom of rights of being a Canadian sits more in the above rooted problems than proactively finding a way to fix it imo. I think not taking a harder line puts us in the position Canadian Soccer has been in for so long, I think the CSA is and has been doing better at that for what its worth. No one is disputing the right to choose but there has to be basic respect and accountability on the players and parents that enter into scholarships in the national set up otherwise it is a joke and players will continue to use it until a better offer arrives.

We can sit back and chalk it all up to the players basic rights and enable players and agents to walk all over the program over and over but I think in that case we might think we are putting our big kids pants on and coming to the table, but in reality we are still just sitting at the kiddie table looking ridiculous and those other kids all went to another table with all the food we bought.  

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

toontownman, we all appreciate what you are saying, the principle is impeccable, really is. But I think there is always going to be a limitation on it. 

First of all, they are underage minors, I am not sure you can build that sort of clause into a minor's deal as part of the national program

Then, if the CSA wants to fund them, that is their choice, and they do it speculatively. As do all world FA's, they are speculating on future talent and that is how you do it. You cannot start complaining about the ones that don't pan out or go somewhere else, since all you are doing is following an internationally used model, where you could benefit in the opposite direction (as we do).

It is not like a certification. Many companies will pay an employee's certification or degree, MBA, or part, or give work time, with a clause that the employee has to stay for a certain minimum period. After that, in some cases part or even all of a degree or certification is waived; before quite often there are clauses for payback and compensation. But here there is no certification or degree, technically there is just experience and training, but how it might be quanitified is unclear.

Finally, I think that the last thing the CSA should be doing is going about with a contract to sign that is essentially defensive and pessimistic, it does not do a lot for the image or prestige of the program. If someone waved that in my face, at 16, I'd ask my folks and then, maybe, tell them to screw off. 

[Club Linesman]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Then, if the CSA wants to fund them, that is their choice, and they do it speculatively. As do all world FA's, they are speculating on future talent and that is how you do it. You cannot start complaining about the ones that don't pan out or go somewhere else, since all you are doing is following an internationally used model, where you could benefit in the opposite direction (as we do).

 

And if the CSA was to limit or penalize those youngsters with talent who happen to be eligible for two or more countries, you can imagine what Tabla's or a similar players' response would be if he wasn't financially supported while training here and others were. They would never agree to play for Canada. so this is a necessary evil to support our athletes and in the end hopefully benefit our national team. 

[One American]

Contracts that tie youth players to a country permanently?

 

Yeah, FIFA is going to go for that! Big time!