WCQ - Canada vs. Honduras Nov. 13th, 2015 Pre-Game Thread

[Shway]

I really don't think this is about attitude.  Floro's system requires high pressure, box to box stuff out of his mids.  That's just not Osorio.  

Osorio is a good player but I don't think he is good enough to influence a WCQ.  He fades in and out at MLS level. Contributed nothing in the playoff game last week.  

Floro is going in a different direction than we have in previous WCQ campaigns.  Different is good.

Stupid comment. 

For one, we only have two players who can influence a WCQ - Atiba and Junior.

Secondly, not even the guys who get paid the M's contributed in the playoff game. But there starters for their national team......

Floros direction is defence, defence, defence and we seen how the Gold Cup went, but our goal was the Semi-Finals .....and God I hope, God I'm praying that his direction for this WCQ brings success, because he has arguable the best talent at his deposal in CMNT history.

[Keegan]

I seriously wonder if the Osorio bashers have watched him play outside of the Gold Cup, where not one player was impressive. Not even the chosen one Cyle. 

 

My opinion or not, he is easily one of the best players in the CMNT with good feet and ball control. 

Good feet and ball control at the MLS regular season level.  He isn't going to be a winger on the CMNT, he isn't a dribbler who can beat a man and run down the wing... so that means he's a CM and he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to be one in CMNT.  Bernier at least has experience playing defensively, also has good feet/ball control, has more goals in his last 2 matches than Osorio had all season, more caps/experience etc. 

If we're talking about a guy to come off the bench Bernier is a better call IMO.  I don't think Osorio's ball control is dynamic enough to make a difference at a higher level i.e. WCQ.  I think the match vs. Montreal was Osorio's chance to show that he could perform at a higher level and he didn't.  

[Keegan]

Stupid comment. 

 

Not even the guys who get paid the M's contributed in the playoff game. But there starters for their national team......

Floros direction is defence, defence, defence and we seen how the Gold Cup went, but our goal was the Semi-Finals .....and God I hope, God I'm praying that his direction for this WCQ brings success, because he has arguable the best talent at his deposal in CMNT history.

Stupid comment.

No he doesn't honestly... the 2008 WCQ team was much better.  We had a Bundesliga starter who didn't' even get minutes (Imhof)... 30 year old Stalteri, Radzinski, De Rosario in his prime, De Guzman in his prime, Hutchinson, Gerba, Friend, Serioux, Bernier.   I'm sure I'm missing some names but that was a very solid squad.

[Shway]

Good feet and ball control at the MLS regular season level.  He isn't going to be a winger on the CMNT, he isn't a dribbler who can beat a man and run down the wing... so that means he's a CM and he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to be one in CMNT.  Bernier at least has experience playing defensively, also has good feet/ball control, has more goals in his last 2 matches than Osorio had all season, more caps/experience etc. 

If we're talking about a guy to come off the bench Bernier is a better call IMO.  I don't think Osorio's ball control is dynamic enough to make a difference at a higher level i.e. WCQ.  I think the match vs. Montreal was Osorio's chance to show that he could perform at a higher level and he didn't.  

Again....We're talking about a player who hasn't seen any success at the MNT level, but is considered experienced? Experienced at failure? Bernier's has 1 goal more than Osorio (not including post-season results) and  6 less assists than Osorio. What do you prefer from a CM, goals or assists?

 

I agree that Osorio isn't a winger for the CMNT, but neither is he for TFC. He's only put out there because Captain paid to much Bradley. To me his best position is at CAM, where he would sit right in front of Atiba and JDG, and behind the likes of Cyle Larin. His best performances was when he was connecting with Defoe at TFC. 

 

Also sooo we are judged of one game where an ENTIRE team doesn't perform, where not even the God Gio himself performed...again I'm confused as to how you could use that a determination.

[Guest]

Everyone needs to calm their shit. While it appears to be a head scratcher, if we win one or both games, it really doesn't matter if Osorio is not there.

Yea but if we don't score a goal get ready for the pitchforks

[Obinna]

 

Jonovision, I am going to pick on you here for a minute my friend, although others are also guilty of this (and btw, I expect another error in the quote once again - always happens when I post using my phone).

First things first, let's stop citing Osorio's "clear attitude problem" as if it were fact. Unless you are part of the team, or know Osorio personally, you are in no position to accuse this man of having a poor attitude. Nobody ever made such an accusation before his reaction to being substituted, and suddenly he is being demonized? For being unhappy about being substituted? Give me a break. This is nothing more than an isolated incident until we see repeat offenses or hear otherwise from coaching staff/personal. He was not selected again, so what. Stop trying to read between lines that don't exist.

Osorio does not have an attitude problem. Do you know who has an attitude problem? Mario Ballotelli.

Next...

This notion that has been developing that Osorio does not have a defensive bone in his body is wildly being blown out of proportion. I'm sorry but that is complete BS. Actually no, I am not sorry. 

Please point me to an example where Osorio has been a major defensive liability? When has any coach been openly critical of his work rate? When has any analyst been openly critical of his work rate? How many games has Osorio lost his team for this perceived defeciency? 

Let's face it, if Osorio was such a defensive liability, he wouldn't be a starter in MLS, not even for the worst defensive team in the league (TFC). He is not so gifted offensively that his club can have him walk back on defense. Let's get real. All I ever see is a kid who works hard on both sides of the ball. He doesn't get stuck in like Will Johnson or block passing like Russell Teibert, nor would I cite him as the perfect example of a two-way player, but to say he is a defensive liability? C'mon.

Finally, where does Osorio fit in our national team? That is easy, just look at where he has played in Floro's 4-1-4-1: he is one of the two central midfielders in the line of four. Why is it so hard to see that? Even more puzzling, why are you talking about him being unable to get ahead of Hutchinson as a #10? We don't even play with a #10.

Look, I don't really care that Osorio won't be called. Floro has his reasons and that is good enough for me, but I am not going to sit hear and read people make shit up about Osorio being a terrible defensive player, or having an attitude problem.

Osorio has as much of an "attitude problem" as Russell Teibert. Remember when that was all craze around here? Where did the wild theories about RT and his poor attitude disappear to? They vanished the minute he was recalled. 

C'mon guys, we are better than this. 

 

Edit: Almost forgot to mention another Osorio - related fairytale: Jonothan Osorio has been useless for the national team. 

Again, a matter of opinion sure, but for me this is wildly off the mark. He has been no worse than Kyle Bekker, or Samuel Piette, or even Russell Teibert I would argue. He had one off performance in the Gold Cup, he had one showing in WCQ where he did well and set up Ricketts on a beautiful through ball. He has been up and down, but to say he has been nothing but terrible is unfair.

[Guest]

Stupid comment.

No he doesn't honestly... the 2008 WCQ team was much better.  We had a Bundesliga starter who didn't' even get minutes (Imhof)... 30 year old Stalteri, Radzinski, De Rosario in his prime, De Guzman in his prime, Hutchinson, Gerba, Friend, Serioux, Bernier.   I'm sure I'm missing some names but that was a very solid squad.

HUGE  difference between 30 and 36

[Shway]

Stupid comment.

No he doesn't honestly... the 2008 WCQ team was much better.  We had a Bundesliga starter who didn't' even get minutes (Imhof)... 30 year old Stalteri, Radzinski, De Rosario in his prime, De Guzman in his prime, Hutchinson, Gerba, Friend, Serioux, Bernier.   I'm sure I'm missing some names but that was a very solid squad.

LOL Friend, Serioux, Bernier...

Right now we have Edgar in his prime, Atiba in his prime, Larin ROY and breaking records, Tesho, Ricketts, Jakovic, Hoilett, Johnson to name a few. 

We bash Ricketts but he has a better strike rate than the glorified Radzinski, and don't let me start on Friend LOL

 

 

[BearcatSA]

Floro's system requires high pressure, box to box stuff out of his mids.  That's just not Osorio.

I've never thought that was Bekker's stock in trade, either.  Granted, I didn't get to see any of his other Impact appearances in September but if that's the criteria, I probably wouldn't have either in the squad.

[Shway]

First things first, let's stop citing Osorio's "clear attitude problem" as if it were fact. ......

Man I love how you see everything for what it is, and don't talk bullshit for the sake of it. 

[king1010]

Yea but if we don't score a goal get ready for the pitchforks

i got my pitchfork ready. If we line up with 5 d and 3 defensive mids and an isolated striker while scoring zero goals ill lose my shit. 

Also i think the wingers should be akindele and hoilett over ricketts. Especially on turf. Ricketts has a hard enough time controlling a ball on grass. Nvm turf that is faster 

[Shway]

i got my pitchfork ready. If we line up with 5 d and 3 defensive mids while scoring zero goals ill lose my shit

Lol...be prepared for it. 

Floro sets the team up for a smash and grab style win. If the CSA board new his style was so defensive, I'm surprised we couldn't get an Italian.

[Soccerpro]

I'm fully expecting not to score at home vs Honduras and Floro will be celebrating 0-0 like its a victory.

He just doesn't get it.

Nice hair, though.

[Keegan]

Again....We're talking about a player who hasn't seen any success at the MNT level, but is considered experienced? Experienced at failure? Bernier's has 1 goal more than Osorio (not including post-season results) and  6 less assists than Osorio. What do you prefer from a CM, goals or assists?

 

Actually we're talking about two players who haven't had success at the CMNT level.  They cancel each other out in that regard.  If we are looking to kill out a game I know who I'm bringing on... Patrice Bernier.  Osorio has never even been on the pitch for a goal against a non-minnow.  If we are trying to win a game we already have the option off the bench in Russell Teibert who has come in and provided sparks.  

LOL Friend, Serioux, Bernier...

Right now we have Edgar in his prime, Atiba in his prime, Larin ROY and breaking records, Tesho, Ricketts, Jakovic, Hoilett, Johnson to name a few. 

We bash Ricketts but he has a better strike rate than the glorified Radzinski, and don't let me start on Friend LOL

 

 

Yeah LOL at having the leading Bundesliga 2 scorer coming off our bench.  Serioux was a good defender for us, as was McKenna, Bernier was a 28 year old and playing in Europe.  

Clearly you didn't watch the 2008 WCQ team.  Radzinski was twice the player that Ricketts ever was or ever will be and to compare their strike rates is unbelievably ignorant.  Edgar in his prime... playing League One football, Larin broke one record (not records) a rookie goal scoring record great but we had Ali G who scored a goal every other match for Canada... 

Your boy Osorio wouldn't even be in discussion of being called to the 2008 WCQ team, at the time we arguably had the best midfield in CONCACAF.  

There is comparison between the 2008 team and this team honestly.  We have a decent squad but very inexperienced... Akindele and Larin are young players who have futures but they aren't established at the international level.  

 

 

[El Hombre]

First things first, let's stop citing Osorio's "clear attitude problem" as if it were fact. Unless you are part of the team, or know Osorio personally, you are in no position to accuse this man of having a poor attitude. Nobody ever made such an accusation before his reaction to being substituted, and suddenly he is being demonized? For being unhappy about being substituted? Give me a break. This is nothing more than an isolated incident until we see repeat offenses or hear otherwise from coaching staff/personal. He was not selected again, so what. Stop trying to read between lines that don't exist.

I don't think it's just the substitution, but also the interaction with the media since then.  Even today his response is "You have to ask Benito as to why I wasn't included".  That's not the response of a professional.  A professional says something along the lines of "I wasn't in the gaffer's plans this time around, so I have to put my head down and work my way back into the team."

I think he's bought into the hype around himself and that's not good.

[shermanator]

Yea but if we don't score a goal get ready for the pitchforks

Fair enough, but for some the pitchforks are already out in full force due to one player not being called. FLORO HATES SCORING HAR HAR ALL THE DEFENSIVE MIDS BELONG TO US! It's just, tiresome.

We saw a very different squad lineup against Ghana and they looked pretty good in their attacking play from what I saw. And that was with Charlie Trafford starting at AM....

Wait until we see the result before the pitchforks are out.

[Keegan]

I don't think it's just the substitution, but also the interaction with the media since then.  Even today his response is "You have to ask Benito as to why I wasn't included".  That's not the response of a professional.  A professional says something along the lines of "I wasn't in the gaffer's plans this time around, so I have to put my head down and work my way back into the team."

I think he's bought into the hype around himself and that's not good.

The TFC disease.  In our club you get superstar status when you put pen to paper.  

Sorry but one goal all season for a TFC squad with that much firepower isn't impressive.  And feeding the ball to Giovinco at the halfway line and having him dribble through the whole team is only impressive on the stat line.  Osorio had some good games, no doubt but he's not indispensable. 

[El Hombre]

Soooo what boggles my mind (though he hasn't been confirmed as being in the squad) is that y'all would advocate for a player like Bernier to be included, who hasn't done much for the national team, and just recently caught form....over Osorio who has consistently performed over the past few years, and hasn't got a real opportunity to impress. It's 35 vs 22. What never worked vs. What hasn't gotten a chance. The past vs The present and future. 

Osorio's best performances for TFC have been from when he is playing behind the strikers, and not on the LW. I understand the high pressure, and outside speed that Floro likes to have in his system, but for him to not receive any call ups, and to be selected over the likes of  Kyle Bekker is not justifiable. I don't care if you have a UEFA A License or whatever. It doesn't make sense, and it shows that Benito has a personal vendetta against him.

A couple things:

1) If Benito called in everyone that was advocated for here, his 23 man roster would turn out to be a 35 man roster with 5 NASL right backs.  You're the one that is making this Bernier vs. Osorio.  In my opinion neither would make the pitch even if they were called, so it's a moot point.

2) Osorio's best performances have also come when he's played with one of (if not the) best player in MLS. That should factor into things a little bit.  Not many people were calling for his inclusion last year, so it's hard to say that he's gone from an after thought to a must call in 8 to 12 months based entirely on his own merit.

3) Enough with the personal vendetta shit.  That's just nonsense.

[Obinna]

@El Hombre El Hombre 

Agree: It was not the most professional response.

Disagree: That response indicates he has an attitude problem. There is no evidence.

 

Did he buy into the hype surrounding him?

Maybe.

Is he just frustrated because he keeps being passed on and the media is confused (because he is a talented player), so they ask him what is going on?

Maybe.

[Shway]

The TFC disease.  In our club you get superstar status when you put pen to paper.  

Sorry but one goal all season for a TFC squad with that much firepower isn't impressive.  And feeding the ball to Giovinco at the halfway line and having him dribble through the whole team is only impressive on the stat line.  Osorio had some good games, no doubt but he's not indispensable. 

Again you're talking out the ass. EDIT: No one - and I haven't once advocated for his lack thereof goal scoring abilities.

Assist 1
Assist 2

Assist 3

Assist 4

Assist 5 (hockey assist)

Assist 6 (hockey assist)

Assist 7....found your point

[Shway]

A couple things:

1) If Benito called in everyone that was advocated for here, his 23 man roster would turn out to be a 35 man roster with 5 NASL right backs.  You're the one that is making this Bernier vs. Osorio.  In my opinion neither would make the pitch even if they were called, so it's a moot point.

2) Osorio's best performances have also come when he's played with one of (if not the) best player in MLS. That should factor into things a little bit.  Not many people were calling for his inclusion last year, so it's hard to say that he's gone from an after thought to a must call in 8 to 12 months based entirely on his own merit.

3) Enough with the personal vendetta shit.  That's just nonsense.

1) True

2) True, but why not play him with one of the best goal scorers in the MLS (Cyle Larin). (assist to defoe) This is Kaka to Larin esque this year. 

3.) Personal vendetta to a particular V? Lol give me a break...however if you are referring to Floro then I reserve the right too.

[Keegan]

1) True

2) True, but why not play him with one of the best goal scorers in the MLS (Cyle Larin). (assist to defoe) This is Kaka to Larin esque this year. 

3.) Personal vendetta to who Vee's? Lol give me a break...however if you are referring to Floro then I reserve the right too.

And now you're talking out the ass.  When has Kaka played a through ball to Larin like that all season?  In Orlando's 4-0 win over LA he had a 2 on 1 that he dished off to Larin?  Larin and Defoe are completely different strikers.

So your reasoning for playing him with Larin is based off a through ball played to a poacher playing off the shoulder of a defender 2 years ago.  And somehow we are going to toss these two pieces together and it's just going to all come together in our biggest match in 3 years, Osorio will play the perfect ball and Larin will start playing facing toward goal.  I'm convinced.  

Again you're talking out the ass. EDIT: No one - and I haven't once advocated for his lack thereof goal scoring abilities.

Assist 1
Assist 2

Assist 3

Assist 4

Assist 5 (hockey assist)

Assist 6 (hockey assist)

Assist 7....found your point

The first 3 were quality assists no doubt.  But over the course of a year that doesn't really advocate your stance of him being the playmaker Canada needs.  I watch every TFC and Canada match, I'm not talking out the ass.  I've seen Osorio play over 100 matches from U20s to Senior MNT to TFC. 

We can argue all day about this but the fact is Osorio isn't a star MLS midfielder and he isn't a star CMNT player no matter how many times John Molinaro, Herc, Altidore and Kurt Larson tweet he is.  He is a dispensable piece at the moment and as such Floro has left him out.  I like Osorio, he's been one of my favourite players since he's joined TFC but he's an above average MLS player and wouldn't likely see the pitch even if he was called.  I hope he can take this snub in the best way possible with a humble mind, improve and make the next squad.

[king1010]

And now you're talking out the ass.  When has Kaka played a through ball to Larin like that all season?  In Orlando's 4-0 win over LA he had a 2 on 1 that he dished off to Larin?  Larin and Defoe are completely different strikers.

So your reasoning for playing him with Larin is based off a through ball played to a poacher playing off the shoulder of a defender 2 years ago.  And somehow we are going to toss these two pieces together and it's just going to all come together in our biggest match in 3 years, Osorio will play the perfect ball and Larin will start playing facing toward goal.  I'm convinced.  

The first 3 were quality assists no doubt.  But over the course of a year that doesn't really advocate your stance of him being the playmaker Canada needs.  I watch every TFC and Canada match, I'm not talking out the ass.  I've seen Osorio play over 100 matches from U20s to Senior MNT to TFC. 

We can argue all day about this but the fact is Osorio isn't a star MLS midfielder and he isn't a star CMNT player no matter how many times John Molinaro, Herc, Altidore and Kurt Larson tweet he is.  He is a dispensable piece at the moment and as such Floro has left him out.  I like Osorio, he's been one of my favourite players since he's joined TFC but he's an above average MLS player and wouldn't likely see the pitch even if he was called.  I hope he can take this snub in the best way possible with a humble mind, improve and make the next squad.

That's what ppl said the first time he was snubbed. Now this is to be the 3rd camp in a row being snubbed. Doesn't look like he'll factor in under Floro. Which is a shame. No he is not a starter, no he is not an international all star, but he provides more quality than the bottom few midfielders who will be called up. And depth is important.

 

[theaub]

Where's the pre-match bar (important questions here)

[apbsmith]

I seriously wonder if the Osorio bashers have watched him play outside of the Gold Cup, where not one player was impressive. Not even the chosen one Cyle. 

 

My opinion or not, he is easily one of the best players in the CMNT with good feet and ball control. 

I'm not an Osorio basher, I will support any and every Canadian.... I think it is awesome and great a Canadian is a regular starter on an MLS team and developping.

I watched him in the playoff game last week and the gold cup game vs CRC.  Both high intensity and must win games, like WCQ will be. He was a ghost on the pitch, lost every 50/50 ball, was constantly pushed off and out muscled off the ball. "His creativity" in the Montreal game, led to a turnover at the top of the 18 which led to the counter attack goal by Montreal (1st goal of game).   He was subbed off in both games, deservingly so based on performance in those matches.

Do I wish him the best, always, would I put him in the 23, depends, honestly porbably not this round.  In my starting 11 vs aggresive and rough central americans these 2 matches, not a chance.

I hope this motivates him to get stronger, I still believe he has a great future and ceiling but I do not see him being usefull in these matches. Just my opinion.