Tristan Borges

[Ansem]

 

 

[toontownman]

Between a rock and a hard place. Staying put and fighting is the obvious choice, knuckling down, showing commitment and hoping his talent shines through. That can quickly turn into zero football though and a regression. I am assuming the second team at least has regular games in some sort of league at least? Otherwise he might be better served going on loan to try and impress through playing.

 

 

[shorty]

Can someone with more experience than me explain how this even makes sense from a business standpoint for OHL?  You’re either in the business of winning trophies or selling players on or both. You have 12 players who probably represent a multi-million dollar investment  — regardless of whether their value is insurance in case the 26 above them don’t work out or get injured, or whether their value is development for profit, why wouldn’t you get them loan deals where they can play meaningful games and stay match-fit?  It’s like buying a fleet of nice cars but then leaving them out in the rain and never driving them. I’m really confused at the logic of this. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, shorty said:

Can someone with more experience than me explain how this even makes sense from a business standpoint for OHL?  You’re either in the business of winning trophies or selling players on or both. You have 12 players who probably represent a multi-million dollar investment  — regardless of whether their value is insurance in case the 26 above them don’t work out or get injured, or whether their value is development for profit, why wouldn’t you get them loan deals where they can play meaningful games and stay match-fit?  It’s like buying a fleet of nice cars but then leaving them out in the rain and never driving them. I’m really confused at the logic of this. 

Well the transfer window is closed I believe so they can't loan them now until January. Maybe they will do so then. They are backed by King Power group who also own Leicester City, so perhaps they are funded more than your average First division A team. I guess it is better for them to take their time and burn a little extra money instead of sending players out and ending up short handed. 

[Watchmen]

Have to think this is all a disappointment for the CPL as well.  The quality of the CPL can be higher than most of us expected, but if the player who won everything in the league can't crack the top 26 lineup of a newly promoted Jupiler League team, that's not a great look.

[LeoH037]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Have to think this is all a disappointment for the CPL as well.  The quality of the CPL can be higher than most of us expected, but if the player who won everything in the league can't crack the top 26 lineup of a newly promoted Jupiler League team, that's not a great look.

CPL is a season and a *half* old (don't know if you can even consider the past season a "half a season" due to Covid)... cool those jets my friend...

Edited October 14, 2020 by LeoH037

[Cheeta]

Is this his 1st stint in continental Europe?  I ask just because it's been brought up in the past, and quite rightly, how difficult it can be adjusting to life in Europe for a lot of players.  It's tough enough trying to process landing in an entirely new footballing experience but add the language and cultural roadblocks they'll have to navigate and it has to be really quite a trial.  Add a pandemic for fun to why don't you?

Not saying that's the case here, well I am but I'm not if you follow, just speaking generally.  Very brave bunch these footballers.

[Ruffian]

13 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Is this his 1st stint in continental Europe? 

He left Toronto FC academy for Heerenveen and was there for maybe 2 years.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Is this his 1st stint in continental Europe?  I ask just because it's been brought up in the past, and quite rightly, how difficult it can be adjusting to life in Europe for a lot of players.  It's tough enough trying to process landing in an entirely new footballing experience but add the language and cultural roadblocks they'll have to navigate and it has to be really quite a trial.  Add a pandemic for fun to why don't you?

Not saying that's the case here, well I am but I'm not if you follow, just speaking generally.  Very brave bunch these footballers.

As a first team player, yes. He was part of the Heereenveen youth set up, so it is not entirely unfamiliar. 

[johnyb]

19 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Have to think this is all a disappointment for the CPL as well.  The quality of the CPL can be higher than most of us expected, but if the player who won everything in the league can't crack the top 26 lineup of a newly promoted Jupiler League team, that's not a great look.

Maybe not a good look, but he can't prove anything if he isn't given a chance. Not sure what he did to piss his new manager off but why not get him in a game and see what he has?  

[Watchmen]

19 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

CPL is a season and a *half* old (don't know if you can even consider the past season a "half a season" due to Covid)... cool those jets my friend...

Yes.  And they had one player win as many individual awards as he could, then heavily promoted his sale to Europe.  He went to a lower tier league (2nd division Belgium), didn't really catch on, and now isn't even in the teams top 26.  What part of that isn't disappointing?  Year 1, year 10, year 20, I'd think that would be disappointing for the league.  But if you're a new league trying to establish what the quality is, that's not a great look.  Doesn't mean leagues won't still buy players from the CPL, but it could also mean the cost goes down.

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Yes.  And they had one player win as many individual awards as he could, then heavily promoted his sale to Europe.  He went to a lower tier league (2nd division Belgium), didn't really catch on, and now isn't even in the teams top 26.  What part of that isn't disappointing?  Year 1, year 10, year 20, I'd think that would be disappointing for the league.  But if you're a new league trying to establish what the quality is, that's not a great look.  Doesn't mean leagues won't still buy players from the CPL, but it could also mean the cost goes down.

This article gave a good analysis of his performance in D2 - it sounded positive https://petergalindo.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/canadians-abroad-analyzing-david-larin-and-borges-seasons-in-belgium/

D1 Belgium is a higher step and with the ownership and club structure, they are dead set on not getting relegated - so they brought lots of new players with proven record of playing at that level to ensure that. 

I don't like it but it's up to Borges to force his hand during training or hope for a loan this winter. Larin's first stay at Besiktas was rough and a loan did tons of good for him. 

CPL to Belgium D1 is a huge step and had the club stayed in D2, I think he would have played more and have more opportunities to adapt. 

[Kent]

I think it is fair to say it is a disappointment for CPL that he isn’t in the main squad of the team he just transferred to. Just like it would be an accomplishment for the league if he was a starter at his new club.

Just because the league has a disappointment doesn’t mean the league sucks or is doomed to fail. It is what it is. We wanted to sell players on, we did that, yay! Accomplishment! Now that those players have been sold, we want them to prove it was beneficial for them to be purchased. Not doing so well on that front so far. Disappointment. Let’s keep working and see if players like Borges can rebound and eventually start making an impact, and the league continues to sell on players that are finding the right level for them.

[Dominic94]

I think the biggest thing here is that the manager that brought him in is gone, and there's a ton of competition around him. Not every player will pan out and not every transfer will work. It's a big jump for him and I think he needs more time before we say its a failure, it hasn't been a year.

[Aird25]

I don't think one player reflects all that heavily on an entire league. Does the reputation of scouting in Belgium take a hit because they got one transfer wrong?

[Watchmen]

6 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I don't think one player reflects all that heavily on an entire league. Does the reputation of scouting in Belgium take a hit because they got one transfer wrong?

Except it's not just "one player".  It was the player the league deemed to be the best last year.  So, I think it's fair to say that if the best player is struggling for a lower tier Belgian side, other leagues might pause on the amount they want to spend on a CPL player.  Which isn't to say that more players won't be sold or that the CPL is a failure, because neither of those are true either.  I think this relates more to still figuring out what level the CPL is currently at globally, and trying to improve upon that.

[TFC2017]

I hope that he can latch on to a new club in Europe or maybe MLS (even if it's with a TFC 2 or NYRB 2 for ex...). I'd rather he not go back to the CPL only because I think he's already achieved all there is to achieve in that league. 

[gator]

8 minutes ago, TFC2017 said:

I hope that he can latch on to a new club in Europe or maybe MLS (even if it's with a TFC 2 or NYRB 2 for ex...). I'd rather he not go back to the CPL only because I think he's already achieved all there is to achieve in that league. 

If he was to return to North America I would prefer he gets a chance in MLS, if not I would rather watch his talents in the CPL (preferably with Forge) than a move to a MLS reserve team! There is still time for things to work out in Europe, if not in Belgium then another league, he has the talent, we witnessed that last season hence a team taking a chance on him, he just needs to be in the right situation!

[Reign]

I think people are underestimating how much better the teams in the cpl got since the departure of Borges as well. I don’t think Borges has the same impact playing in the cpl during the island games  as he did the first season. Every team improved massivel, other then maybe Forge and Cavs but they were so far ahead. 

[Obinna]

18 minutes ago, Reign said:

I think people are underestimating how much better the teams in the cpl got since the departure of Borges as well. I don’t think Borges has the same impact playing in the cpl during the island games  as he did the first season. Every team improved massivel, other then maybe Forge and Cavs but they were so far ahead. 

Good point. The additions in the offseason leading up to the Island Games was very impressive. 

[Reign]

Also to add to that. One player isn’t going to scare off clubs from taking interest in cpl players. Pepple is getting calls from all over Europe. Farsi apparently has a ton of interest. Zator was almost in the championship. That’s just the Cavs alone. So even if Borges does nothing in Europe it’s not going to impact the league by the looks of it. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Reign

[PiedPilko]

I think it's somewhere in the middle. OHL strikes me as a team that is constantly hopping around for talent. Like, they get excited about one guy, until the next day where they find a better guy and so on. It does bring up questions of league quality when our MVP gets put on the B team of a newly promoted squad, but that happens with MLS products all the time. Maybe we got unlucky this time around, or maybe the CPL just isn't there yet, which is perfectly reasonable for a 2 year old league. We haven't had any other real successes at this point, either. It will come though. 

[Ansem]

13 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Except it's not just "one player".  It was the player the league deemed to be the best last year.  So, I think it's fair to say that if the best player is struggling for a lower tier Belgian side, other leagues might pause on the amount they want to spend on a CPL player.  Which isn't to say that more players won't be sold or that the CPL is a failure, because neither of those are true either.  I think this relates more to still figuring out what level the CPL is currently at globally, and trying to improve upon that.

Yes, he was the best of "year 1 CPL" and was brought in to play in D2 - no D1 teams took him.

From the analysis I posted earlier, D2 looks like the level where he belongs and was brought to play there - not D1. Can he potentially improve enough to get 1st club minutes in D1? Maybe, but that's up to him to impress his coach and prove that he can.

I don't see it as a failure just yet. Had the club remained in D2 and he still could not crack the 1st team than yes, that would have been a fail in my book

[Obinna]

49 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

I think it's somewhere in the middle. OHL strikes me as a team that is constantly hopping around for talent. Like, they get excited about one guy, until the next day where they find a better guy and so on. It does bring up questions of league quality when our MVP gets put on the B team of a newly promoted squad, but that happens with MLS products all the time. Maybe we got unlucky this time around, or maybe the CPL just isn't there yet, which is perfectly reasonable for a 2 year old league. We haven't had any other real successes at this point, either. It will come though. 

Perhaps we should file this under wait-and-see? For all we know he gets into the team after January and turns out to have a big contribution. He would then have gone from signing to a 2nd division club to contributing to a 1st division club after 1 year. How would that be for a narrative? Not impossible, either.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Obinna

[PiedPilko]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps we should file this under wait-and-see? For all we know he gets into the team after January and turns out to have a big contribution. He would then have gone from signing to a 2nd division club to contributing to a 1st division club after 1 year. How would that be for a narrative? Not impossible, either.

Yeah, especially for such a new league. Anything's still possible.