Jump to content

Doneil Henry


Coramoor
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 12/4/2016 at 1:01 AM, dsqpr said:

Doneil Henry does not have the character to play in England -- in any division. It is tough physical football at all levels and gutless shirkers get found out very quickly.

A torn ACL?  Get out there and hoof a ball around you coward.  You don't need two knees to play soccer!

Edited by AvroArrow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/4/2016 at 10:13 AM, BearcatSA said:

Even prior to this setback  I had the sense that this would be his last season in West Ham's set up.  Loans like his more often than not are about getting a guy some exposure in order to move him.  With this long term injury, he's out of the shop window and now invisible in the storage room.  I wish him a speedy recovery.   

Echo ever word typed.

 

I've been critical of the man but Geezus, this is getting to be a bit much.  Give a guy a break would yah?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that he lost his man, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's gutless. A lapse in concentration happens, especially with younger players. Henry is always fierce in the tackle (and at times reckless), and is not a player I would attach the words gutless to. I'm sure he's disappointed with himself that he lost his mark.

Kevin Mckenna's half time comments about "damage control" go into the category of "gutless" for me, especially as he was our captain. I'd never wish for him to not put on our jersey again over it though. Unfortunately, that is how he went out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, dsqpr said:

It is my personal feeling. I am so tired of us losing in Central America because they always want it more than we do. Watch the Honduras WCQ winner again and you will see Henry just giving up on the man he is marking, who consequently taps in the winner at the far post, unhindered. Perhaps it was too hot to keep sprinting. Perhaps he was just a bit tired.

That type of attitude is a cancer to a team. If the other guys are prepared to spill blood for the cause, as Honduras were, and you aren't, you are going to lose. I hope Henry never again pulls on the red Canada shirt. We can do better and we deserve better.

(Obviously, my opinion has nothing to do with his injuries. I guess some people on this board have repressed that memory. I don't blame them.)

You say he doesn't have the character to play in England then your example is a match in Honduras. Am I the only one confused?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, dsqpr said:

It is my personal feeling. I am so tired of us losing in Central America because they always want it more than we do. Watch the Honduras WCQ winner again and you will see Henry just giving up on the man he is marking, who consequently taps in the winner at the far post, unhindered. Perhaps it was too hot to keep sprinting. Perhaps he was just a bit tired.

That type of attitude is a cancer to a team. If the other guys are prepared to spill blood for the cause, as Honduras were, and you aren't, you are going to lose. I hope Henry never again pulls on the red Canada shirt. We can do better and we deserve better.

(Obviously, my opinion has nothing to do with his injuries. I guess some people on this board have repressed that memory. I don't blame them.)

So I guess you are a fan of the Darth Vader school of thought. If someone makes a mistake, you force choke them and get someone else to try. Seems reasonable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Mistakes get made all the time. A mistake is a failure of execution -- you try to do something and it doesn't work out the way you intended. All players make mistakes every game.

Just quitting on your job and letting the man you are marking run free into your penalty area because you don't have the guts to dig deep and try to stay with him is not a mistake, it is gutless.

I just rewatched the goal. Looks like he was just beaten for pace. He might have stuttered for a second. I am sure a person with enough time to review enough video could find equally egregious/innocuous examples for all your favourite players, whoever they may be. Some just may not have been as harshly penalized (meaning, resulting in a goal that knocked your country out of World Cup qualifying).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a difference between being gutless and turning your mind off. Cleaver movement is not required, sometimes players switch off and just don't push that extra inch. It's unfortunate for us and him it had to happen during such an important game, but that's just part of being mentally tough and discipline. It has nothing to do with guts. I would call that focus (or a lack thereof. @dsqpr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Out of curiosity I rewatched the goal too. From what I can see it looks like he is watching the guy with the ball too much to see what he is going to do and where the ball is going instead of concentrating on his man and that gives Quioto the split second he needs to get ahead of him after which it is too late and he can not catch him. That is poor defending (watch your man not the ball) but nothing to do with guts or courage. And in Henry's defence, he had hardly played at all in the previous couple of years due to injury and was playing out of position in a crucial game in very adverse conditions. It was pretty predictable that he was going to be the one to make a bad play at some point in the game. The problem was there was not really a better choice. I prefer Ledgerwood a bit because he plays positionally a lot better and overcomes his limitations with soccer intelligence but the Hondurans would have blown by him with their speed. Floro chose to go with the guy who could physically and speed wise match up with the Hondurans but was less smart defensively but would Ledgerwood have done better with his physical limitations? Ouimette is also not particularly fast nor as crafty as Ledgerwood and Aird might have been fast enough but is weak defensively so it is a no win no matter who was played.

Although on paper in many positions we are as good or better than the Hondurans at the same time we did not have one right back playing at a decent level that we could put in the team. One of the reasons we always lose to teams like Honduras is if their starting right back or any other position could not play they could replace him with 5 to 10 other guys without a huge drop in quality while we could not come up with one single decent right back. Hopefully that is something that the CPL will change if the playing level is high enough and the Canadian domestic quota is also high. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jpg75 said:

My 2 cents: His career trajectory will follow what is between his ears (injuries aside). His raw athleticism has gotten him this far, his football IQ will be his downfall. 

I always hoped he'd learn and up his football IQ over time but there's been no evidence of it. When I see him on the field I'm thinking there's a disaster waiting to happen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's pretty easy to say there's no evidence he's up'd his soccer IQ. All you have to do is focus on the mistakes. It's much easier than finding examples of where he's improved.

Sometimes players get away with mental mistakes because they have the physical tools to recover. As he slows down he'll likely see the game more quickly. It's a natural progression.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, rightback said:

I always hoped he'd learn and up his football IQ over time but there's been no evidence of it. When I see him on the field I'm thinking there's a disaster waiting to happen. 

How is he supposed to up his football IQ when he has hardly played in the last 2 years due to injuries? I think Ledgerwood has a higher football IQ now but that is also because he played and trained a lot at decent level teams with good coaching for many years. When Henry got similar opportunities he got injured. Some guys just can't develop a good football IQ for whatever reason but until Henry stops getting injured and gets playing time we can't say that that is the case with him. It is not like he just finished a two year loan in the Championship or Danish first division in which he was a steady starter and is still making the same mistakes. He is not developing his football IQ because he has been mostly injured and not been playing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

How is he supposed to up his football IQ when he has hardly played in the last 2 years due to injuries? I think Ledgerwood has a higher football IQ now but that is also because he played and trained a lot at decent level teams with good coaching for many years. When Henry got similar opportunities he got injured. Some guys just can't develop a good football IQ for whatever reason but until Henry stops getting injured and gets playing time we can't say that that is the case with him. It is not like he just finished a two year loan in the Championship or Danish first division in which he was a steady starter and is still making the same mistakes. He is not developing his football IQ because he has been mostly injured and not been playing.

Fair enough and I hope you're right. It seems like he's been around forever, it's hard to remember he's only 23. He's always had a lot of potential. As far as his jog in Honduras goes, I was surprised and disappointed but it was just one incident...I don't remember seeing quit in him on other occasions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I guess we just see the play differently. He sure doesn't look like he is sprinting at the end to me. If somebody is beating you for pace you try your best to stay with them anyway; who knows, at the crucial moment you may yet be close enough to make a tackle. Obviously he didn't know that specific dereliction of duty would end up being the pivotal moment that would result in Canada being knocked out of the World Cup but that is why players with character give 100% for every second of the 90 mins -- because they understand that it only takes a second to lose or win a match.

I know that players lose their markers all the time but it is usually the result of a skilful dummy or a momentary lapse of concentration or ball watching. That is not how I saw that play. When you just give up because you can't be arsed to keep busting a gut, you are lacking character.

My first take on that goal was that he knew he had already lost his mark. He lets up a little at the end so as to avoid clipping Quito heels and thereby taking a foul in the box. If so, I was impressed he didn't end up slide tackling him from behind which I would've expected him to do from previous games. Maybe his IQ has improved...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My take on him is that he played about 100 games for TFC and looked like his learning curve was fairly shallow. Since then while playing for the CMNT and a few clips from England he looks like he's still making many of the same mistakes he made as a teen. Yes, his injuries have hindered his PT and therefore given him less learning opportunities. That said i still think that is what is going to make or break his career, whether he starts to cut down on simple mistakes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, afun said:

My first take on that goal was that he knew he had already lost his mark. He lets up a little at the end so as to avoid clipping Quito heels and thereby taking a foul in the box. If so, I was impressed he didn't end up slide tackling him from behind which I would've expected him to do from previous games. Maybe his IQ has improved...

I am not prepared to endorse the "gutless" tag, but IMO this is a really generous interpretation.  If not slide tackling someone from behind in the box is 'impressive', your expectation for MNT players in a WCQ match is far, far too low.  And it isn't that hard to avoid clipping his heels.  In fact, one way would be to actually try to get between him and the ball instead of just jogging behind him.... 

As was pointed out - it would be impossible for him (or anyone) to know what a crucial moment that would be in our campaign.  But that is the point.  Since you can't know, you go full out, every time, no exceptions.  And when you are a defender tracking a guy back towards goal in your own box, you know the stakes are high.  Jogging back just because you initially lost your mark is completely unacceptable, and a sign that you simply are not ready to compete at that level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, jpg75 said:

My take on him is that he played about 100 games for TFC and looked like his learning curve was fairly shallow. Since then while playing for the CMNT and a few clips from England he looks like he's still making many of the same mistakes he made as a teen. Yes, his injuries have hindered his PT and therefore given him less learning opportunities. That said i still think that is what is going to make or break his career, whether he starts to cut down on simple mistakes.

Like I said in a previous post, players are forced to become smarter when they begin to have physical limitations. Doneil slowing down due to injury might be the best thing to happen to him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Timely comment from the Hereford FC manager Peter Beadle on "character" and "not giving up" after his side had come back from 3-0 down to draw 3-3:

------

Beadle added that the way his team came back in the game proves what the club means to them.

"I couldn't be more proud of them because the character they showed and the fact they never gave up was phenomenal," said Beadle.

------

I'm not trying to belabor the point because I get that most people don't see what I see but it is encouraging to see my view on "character" and "giving up" supported by a professional football manager.

Come on this is just typical sports coach sound bite material. "It is great not to give up". Words of genius there, never would have guessed that myself. How exactly do you know that one of their players didn't make a similar mistake to Henry on one of the three goals they gave up? If they were heroic in coming back from 3 goals down doesn't that make them cowardly during the time they went down by 3 goals?

You can find examples of even top defenders losing their man just like Henry does on this play. Henry is not an international level right back and should not have been playing in this game except for the fact we do not have anyone who is an international level right back. We did not lose because of Henry's character we lost because we do not have one single right back at international level and are not very strong at a few other positions. If you keep on making this about Henry's character it does not give a very good impression of your own character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...