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Doneil Henry

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Oh God  I hope not Henry at RB that last performance his last game versus the US was not very good, and IMO has never looked good or comfortable when Floro has put him at RB, I hate to say it but having watched him in the many games he played CB for TFC even at CB he had way too many brain farts. Physically he is a great athlete and seems built for the CB position but every time I see him play even at CB I get this uncomfortable feeling that at any minute he will come up with one of his famous brain farts . I'm rooting for the kid and hope he develops into a good and successful player but maybe  it's the fact that having watched him over the years and witnessed his many crazy mistakes which have led to goals or cards and sending offs I feel this way about him, but like I said I'm rooting for the guy and hope that he becomes the player he has the potential to be.

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Once again, Henry never quite looked like a RB (against the USA), and probably never will.

That being said, he looks more comfortable with his touches on the ball than he ever has. Perhaps a reflection of the confidence gained from training with West Ham and playing for Blackburn. 

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Jakovic and Straith and Henry are all at the same general level IMO.  

As the challenger, Henry needs to prove he is better than Jakovic.  Jakovic has been solid for us in WCQ so far.  The proof is there.  Straith as well has come up big.  Henry will get his chance, but not now.  

Edgar and James are the only CBs we have getting regular minutes.  James is seeing regular minutes as a sub in the Hungarian top flight and deserves his call up.

Dont think we need 5 CBs on a squad.    

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To be fair to Henry, he was coming off a long lay off against the USA, and he did ok.  He keeps getting thrown into RB because the managers think he is better than Jakovic and Ledgerwood  and I guess Aird now.  The fact that he is able to slide over and play some OK fullback and has been on the gameday roster (should be match fit) lately bode well for a call up.  I know the brain farts haven't disappeared but lets face it, he is the future, I dont see any other young CDN CB getting a chance in the EPL any time soon.  

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About the brain farts, others on this board have reminded us that they were mostly when he was 19-20 and playing at TFC when we could watch them all unfold.  Now he is under PL tutelage (coaches and teammates), a little older and away from home and having to be self-sufficient (which is good).  Plus, he is not yet getting first team minutes so we don't see him as much except in those few loan games and in development games.  I hope it is something that people will be able to judge in context as he grows as we get a larger body of evidence from actual games for club and country.  I worry that he might be like the kid brother that can't escape the family story about what kind of person he is. 

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Plain and simple...he's not a RB. Never was, and never will be. So I don't like hearing how he did (good or bad) in that position, because he really and truly shouldn't be playing there.

To add to that....you rarely here about natural CB's being converted to RB's, it's always the other way around. And in this new era of the game where wing backs are the key threats to an attack for the ability of opening up the game in the middle. You'll notice that a lot of current RBs or LBs were either former LMs or RMs, and I think what we need to focus on converting or utilizing a RM to play RB.

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Sorry but the claim that DH will never be a good RB is absurd. This is a guy who people have constantly questioned since his debut at TFC and has now managed to make his way into a top 5 Premier League team at the age of 22! He is still young and is now training with top coaches and team mates, who knows what will happen.

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1 minute ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Sorry but the claim that DH will never be a good RB is absurd. This is a guy who people have constantly questioned since his debut at TFC and has now managed to make his way into a top 5 Premier League team at the age of 22! He is still young and is now training with top coaches and team mates, who knows what will happen.

I don' think people question his ability, people questioned his decision making more than anything (which comes with maturity & experience)...and at the time he was 18-20 starting at CB for his hometown team. 

 

But sincere question, why are you focused on converting him to a RB if it's not his natural position? He was a CB at Brampton/North Miss, CB in the TFC academy, CB in the U17MNT, CB in the U20MNT, CB at Toronto FC (played RB a few times to many fans dismay), CB in the Olympic Team, CB at Blackburn, CB at West Ham, CB at West Ham U-21s, CB for the CMNT (has played RB a few times to many fans dismay). To your point "he now has manged to make his way into a top 5 premier league team at the age of 22"....all while displaying his skills as a CB. Doneil is a physical, and athletic specimen that has solid CB written all over him now, and in his future.

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22 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I don' think people question his ability, people questioned his decision making more than anything (which comes with maturity & experience)...and at the time he was 18-20 starting at CB for his hometown team. 

 

But sincere question, why are you focused on converting him to a RB if it's not his natural position? He was a CB at Brampton/North Miss, CB in the TFC academy, CB in the U17MNT, CB in the U20MNT, CB at Toronto FC (played RB a few times to many fans dismay), CB in the Olympic Team, CB at Blackburn, CB at West Ham, CB at West Ham U-21s, CB for the CMNT (has played RB a few times to many fans dismay). To your point "he now has manged to make his way into a top 5 premier league team at the age of 22"....all while displaying his skills as a CB. Doneil is a physical, and athletic specimen that has solid CB written all over him now, and in his future.

I'm not focused on him converting to a RB at all, in fact I'm responding to the half dozen posts on the subject. What bothers me sometimes is that we're quick to judge and make definitive statements about players abilities and development based a game or two. 

Edit: I'm probably more defensive about these things then I should be. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Edited by mserson

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14 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I'm not focused on him converting to a RB at all, in fact I'm responding to the half dozen posts on the subject.

Ah I see (my apologies for misinterpreting your stance) 

14 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

What bothers me sometimes is that we're quick to judge and make definitive statements about players abilities and development based a a game or two. 

Were fans that's what were suppose to do lol, but I think a lot of the judging and statements are made off a legitimate comparisons of watching CB Doneil vs. RB Doneil - we've seen him at 20-22 play countless solid games at CB, so its like he should never play RB because I think almost everyone sees him as the CB and future captain of this nation for the next decade (God willing his health).

The boy is 6'2, strong on the ball, strong in the air, strong in tackles, strong fast runner, and very aggressive....his downfall has been his offensive tactical awareness, and distribution out the back which is key to become a great CB...I just can't see nor agree with how he can be potentially converted to a RB.

Edited by Jahinho Guerro

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2 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Ah I see (my apologies for misinterpreting your stance) 

Were fans that's what were suppose to do lol, but I think a lot of the judging and statements are made off a legitimate comparisons of watching CB Doneil vs. RB Doneil - we've seen him at 20-22 play countless solid games at CB, so its like he should never play RB because I think almost everyone sees him as the CB and future captain of this nation for the next decade (God willing his health).

The boy is 6'2, strong on the ball, strong in the air, strong in tackles, strong fast runner, and very aggresive....his downfall has been his offensive tactical awareness, and distribution out the back...I just can't see nor agree with how he can be potentially converted to a RB.

Very good points. 

I think the fact that he is so athletic and the fact that he has shown to have enormous potential, so much that Sam Allardyce brought him to West Ham, shows that it's possible he could move to RB. I don't necessarily want him there, but I do see it as a possibility. 

I agree though that I would love him to develop into our best CB and captain. 

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1 hour ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

 

To add to that....you rarely here about natural CB's being converted to RB's, it's always the other way around. And in this new era of the game where wing backs are the key threats to an attack for the ability of opening up the game in the middle. You'll notice that a lot of current RBs or LBs were either former LMs or RMs, and I think what we need to focus on converting or utilizing a RM to play RB.

I agree with this unless the goal is to not be scored on, against Colombia he was a machine at RB because there was only a few counter attacks and the fullbacks weren't really part of the attack. I agree that he should probably only be playing CB but I can see where he would work at RB in a pinch, although it's definitely not a pinch we should be using against Mexico in either game

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DH is certainly a CB primarily, but imagine what an asset it would be if he DID develop the awareness going forward and the distribution skills to be a competent RB?  This is what I love about Edgar who is first-choice CB, but more than capable at FB and at DM if needed.  It makes picking squads so much easier when players are versatile.

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I dont think anyone wants to convert henry to a RB.  But we have depth at CB, none at RB.  And if the managers see him as the best option at sliding over to RB, when we have no better option..well I can live with that.  And I dont think the critisism he gets is warranted.  He is being a good team mate, trying to do whatever is needed to help the club.   As for brain farts, he still had a few vs the us, rash challenges where he jumped in when he probably didn't need to.    Hopefully these will diminish as he matures but I would hate to see him lose his agressiveness.  

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8 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont think anyone wants to convert henry to a RB.  But we have depth at CB, none at RB.  And if the managers see him as the best option at sliding over to RB, when we have no better option..well I can live with that.  And I dont think the critisism he gets is warranted.  He is being a good team mate, trying to do whatever is needed to help the club.   As for brain farts, he still had a few vs the us, rash challenges where he jumped in when he probably didn't need to.    Hopefully these will diminish as he matures but I would hate to see him lose his agressiveness.  

Ahh I think this(what is bolded) has been the main debate about him.  But again his skill facet is so purposely designed for CB, I would rather see Jakovic, or Edgar  moved out wide before Doneil. 

I think the difference between those two and Doneil is the fact that those players have better feet and offensive awareness in advancing with the ball I think due to the fact that they were not natural CBs - but CMs converted, whereas Doneil has played one position (or two if you count his few games at RB)  his whole professional career. 

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Earlier this month I was in London and saw two matches at the Boleyn Grounds where Doneil dressed for both matches but unfortunately didn't see any minutes. At the pub pre-match the West Ham locals were quite high on his future.

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On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 11:37 AM, BuzzAndSting said:

What bothers me sometimes is that we're quick to judge and make definitive statements about players abilities and development based a game or two. 

Edit: I'm probably more defensive about these things then I should be. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I think you can also save this comment for these next two matches because I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of judgments and definitive statements made then.

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  • Henry has been mixed at best when playing at RB. He actually came forward much better than some people have given him credit. He has also looked more than suspect. 
  • The upside is he should be able to fill the defensive side better without as much pressure as playing CB. I think he has the potential to do well for us there in a position we are weak. 
  • The downside is he really hasn't had proper amounts of time in that position to tell. Much like Fraser Aird. Potential is there but there are big flaws that would need time to be worked on the player given time and minutes to adjust. 
  • His future is obviously at CB, just FYI, imo. But while he is growing RB is an option for us and him. 

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If true, not surprising; can you see Doneil in the same starting XI as Dimitri Payet, Mark Noble, Winston Reid and Andy Carroll?  The Diego Poyet (aka Gus's son) one is interesting as he joined them with quite a bit of a positive reputation.  

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