BCM Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 As a supporter of Canada and Northern Ireland I am a serious glutton for punishment. Far too many false starts and disappointments than one should have in a lifetime to maintain good health. But as I celebrate my wee country's (at least in my childhood) Euro qualification I want to point out that good things can happen to small footballing nations (numerous stories at http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/). Who would have thought Northern Ireland could top the group above Romania, Hungary, Greece and Finland? The parallels with Canada are many - small population and player base, small elite player pool, promising players poached or non-committed, little squad depth, some positional strengths and some obvious weaknesses, divided fanbase, etc. The biggest lesson - and parallel - is that a committed group of players (with a hot striker!) can over-achieve. NI's coach Michael O'Neill really summed it up with he said: "We've come from an era where Northern Ireland players were criticised for not being available at certain times, but in this squad we have real togetherness and spirit... For those players who've been through campaign after campaign and been through loads of disappointments - and had a lot of criticism - this is their moment as much as it is mine." I hope to be able to substitute "Canada" for "Northern Ireland" in that very sentence in the near future. With all of young players coming through the pipeline and gaining experience together...who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I know he wasn't in the squad today but I assume Caolan Lavery will be on the Euro team? That will definitely make it difficult to cheer for NI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Fair point. He's Canadian. But probably not a great assumption. He was called up once for a Euro qualifier and didn't appear. With the star striker suspended and another mainstay injured for this match he was not called up. On current form, he won't be in the team. If he gets hot, who knows. If it's any consolation, I don't think he'll become a star in the future nor do I think he'd get near the starting 11 for Canada at this point in time. Alan Mannus is another story. He is a regular in the 18, but as the third keeper rarely features. Born in Toronto to NI parents, he moved back to NI at a very young age. His "Canadian-ness" is simply by birth and not lineage or upbringing. Can't begrudge his choice. And again, he wouldn't be an upgrade (keeper is NI's very obvious weakness). Thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes it is inspirational for what they have accomplished by qualifying for France. I just had a look at their roster to see where some of their players are playing and compared to where some of our guys are playing Northern Ireland have many more players playing at decent levels than we do I mean if we had the amount of players that they have playing at the levels they do I think we would be predicting a pretty good chance of us making it to the World Cup. . I saw a about 5 Northern Ireland players playing in the English Premiership, about 6 playing tier 2 in England in the Championship, about 4 playing in the Scottish Premiership , therefore not too bad I would say for Northern Ireland in terms of where their players are playing club ball, so therefore based on this it does not surprise me that they have made it to France, it just tells me that it definitely helps when your players are playing at a decent level, it's not the only factor mind you but it helps. Now compare where the Northern Ireland players play their club ball to where some of our guys are playing club ball and you will see there is not much comparisons in the rosters. How many Canadians are playing in the Premiership in England or even in Scotland or how many do we have in the Championship in England. It's not easy to compete when we have to count on starters that are playing 3rd division ball in Germany or second division in Norway or 3rd division in Spain or playing in that soccer hotspot of a league that is the Malaysian league, until we can get as many players or close to as many players as Northern Ireland has playing at decent levels of club soccer it's always going to be a struggle for Canada, I mean could you imagine if Canada had like Northern Ireland 5 players playing in the English Premiership wow, I mean look at the reaction a guy like Hoilet has had who does not start for his club team in the Championship on choosing Canada to play for, imagine we had 5 national team players to choose from who played in the English Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Technically we do have 3 players in their 20s who have "played" in the EPL. Jackson, Hoilett and Edgar. We also have a left back in his 20s with Bundesliga experience and a 34 year old midfielder with Bundesliga/La Liga experience. Hutchinson could definitely play in the EPL as well, Cyle Larin seems to have the potential to get there one day. We aren't in great shape but not as poor as we think. Luckily we need to compare ourselves to teams we are set to play, not Northern Ireland. I think we stack up pretty decently man for man against teams outside of the US and Mexico. Let's not forget that MLS is a league that is comparable to the Championship (at times) and the star players on rivals teams such as Jamaica, Panama and Honduras play in MLS too.. guys like Johnson, Akindele, Osorio, Bekker and Teibert aren't playing at bad levels and it's not out of question to say that Johnson would be able to play in the Championship. EPL "level" players (2) - Hoilett and Hutchinson Championship "level"(4~) - Johnson, Edgar, Larin, Borjan.. maybe Petrasso soon? And I think the rest of our squad save for the young fringe players could fit in the category of MLS/League One regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 But N Ireland at least has qualified for major tournaments before. I think Iceland is the inspiration here. Still, NI, Wales, Iceland, they all prove you can get on a good run with a good bunch of players at the right time and do things. It is hard to keep up, but hey, you have fun while it lasts. That is pretty well all we are asking for as Canada fans, a couple World Cups, a Gold Cup win or three more, in our lifetimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 NI last qualified for a major tournament in, get this, 1986! It couldn't be more appropriate... Iceland is in a golden period, but they have not faced the parallel issues Norn Iron and Canada have faced and continue to face. We shouldn't compare rosters, that was not my intention. NI has players with better pedigree (around 10 of the roster have Premier League experience), but they are minnows in Europe. The comparison is vis-a-vis their competition and ours with CONCACAF. They faced an uphill battle and wouldn't have got there without discipline, belief in the system and incredible team spirit (overcoming a long period of apathy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I've really enjoyed Northern Ireland's qualifying campaign. Living in the UK, all of the matches have been in TV and I've been able watch most of them. I did get pretty excited / jealous when they qualified the other night. Atmosphere at Windsor Park has been great as well. I hope I live to see the day where a Canada match has that much energy. Did you notice the Canadian flag that one of the NI supporters has hug off the side wall at each match? I was also in Belfast last June and walked around Windsor Park. There was a house opposite the main gate that had a Canadian flag hanging out front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Respect to Northern Ireland, I've wondered for years why they haven't been better.. same with Wales and Iceland. You need to believe in yourselves. Those teams have always had talent in a federation that is at least 3x as hard as CONCACAF. Watching the CONCACAF cup at the moment... We just love to make excuses in Canada. Is the USA really that much better than us that they can make the last 16 of World Cups consistently and we can't even make the Hex in CONCACAF? I'm so sick of watching them excel while we absolutely get dominated and crash out, it's not like we just miss out we get absolutely hammered. We talk about how we don't have quality players but the USA literally doesn't either! All due respect but Jozy Altidore is a poor footballer, Bradley is average at best, Yedlin is a Championship player (I'll bet my life on that) and these guys start for the USA and get tons of press and $6 million contracts. Am I taking crazy pills here like Mugatu? If Junior Hoilett or Atiba Hutchinson were American they would be playing for LA Galaxy and making $6 million a year. Obviously the USA is ahead of us but really they aren't that impressive. Certainly not to the point where they are 100+ positions ahead of us in the FIFA rankings. It's embarrassing honestly. Get to the damn hex FFS, no excuses. Let's put some pressure/expectations on ourselves instead of the typical "well we tried". I don't care if Honduras or Panama love football, we do too. We are Canadians, get it done. Still sick after that result in 2012, and it's sickening that since that result we have scored ZERO goals in a Gold Cup and we just drew Belize away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Agree Keegan. Too many people like to make too many excuses. There's some decent players on the Canadian side - sure, short on depth but I do believe Floro blooding the youth will pay dividends (most players will not make it, but if a few do it's a success) and hope that installing the system throughout also helps. But again, the team needs a few results to grow in confidence and belief. I'll stop harping on about the parallels between NI and Canada, but the following stats tell it all. NI was in a terrible state recently, just look: FIFA ranking in September 2012 - 129 2014 World Cup qualifiers - 1 win in ten matches Before Euro qualifiers: last 31 matches, 2 wins! Last 39 competitive matches, 4 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Watching the CONCACAF cup at the moment... We just love to make excuses in Canada. Is the USA really that much better than us that they can make the last 16 of World Cups consistently and we can't even make the Hex in CONCACAF? I'm so sick of watching them excel while we absolutely get dominated and crash out, it's not like we just miss out we get absolutely hammered. We talk about how we don't have quality players but the USA literally doesn't either! All due respect but Jozy Altidore is a poor footballer, Bradley is average at best, Yedlin is a Championship player (I'll bet my life on that) and these guys start for the USA and get tons of press and $6 million contracts. Am I taking crazy pills here like Mugatu? If Junior Hoilett or Atiba Hutchinson were American they would be playing for LA Galaxy and making $6 million a year. Obviously the USA is ahead of us but really they aren't that impressive. Certainly not to the point where they are 100+ positions ahead of us in the FIFA rankings. It's embarrassing honestly. Get to the damn hex FFS, no excuses. Let's put some pressure/expectations on ourselves instead of the typical "well we tried". I don't care if Honduras or Panama love football, we do too. We are Canadians, get it done. Still sick after that result in 2012, and it's sickening that since that result we have scored ZERO goals in a Gold Cup and we just drew Belize away. that's interesting because I came to the opposite conclusion you did watching that match. It was eye opening to me just how far behind in quality we are compared to the U.S. and especially Mexico. You say Bradley is average but he would arguably be the best player in our program. How many guys do we have that would even play on the USMNT? Other than Atiba, I'm not sure you could make an argument for many. We get excited for guys like Tesho and Hedges (potentially) joining us but they don't even get US call ups. we have starters like Piette, Rickets,and Ledgerwood who wouldn't sniff a U.S. call up in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I think it's interesting that the 3 smaller nations mentioned in this thread have all qualified for a major tournament in 3 very different fashions. Northern Ireland seemed to have everything fall the right way for them, including a favourable draw, and showed that a hardworking, cohesive unit on good form could get the results required. Wales are benefitting from a sort of "golden generation" with Bale, Ramsey and others playing for top EPL teams - on paper, these guys should be qualifying for Euro. Both NI and Wales have an established league system in their backyard. Iceland threw huge amounts of money into facilities and improving coaching from grassroots to the top and implemented a development system that is now starting to produce players with high technical abilities - I guess being a small nation it's easier to be patient and get everyone on the same page in terms of a plan. I really don't think any of these "minnow" success stories provide Canada with a model that could be adopted here, except for recognizing the importance of improving coaching at all levels that was paramount to Iceland's turn around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Northern Ireland qualify, but the Netherlands crash and burn? What bizzaro world is this?!? Gotta say, was dancing in my office chair (while wearing my kit), following the scores online... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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