NEW Mother of all Canucks Abroad (and domestic)

[Oranje]

Call me old fashioned, but the MOACA is pg 1 with the updated list and the only posts in the thread were the links to the most recent information. A no-bullshit thread, just easily accessible facts

[shermanator]

Someone steps up to keep this information tracked, and gets piled on for doing so. Perhaps one of the senior Voyageurs should take over then, rather than complain about it?

[Fussball_eh]

Call me old fashioned, but the MOACA is pg 1 with the updated list and the only posts in the thread were the links to the most recent information. A no-bullshit thread, just easily accessible facts

Here is an idea. If anyone has the time and will to keep things old fashioned, create a post underneath my first and base it on the google document in plain text just like you did in the past. Any takers?

[Admin]

Ok, hoooold on...  I have been eyeing that thing for a long time.

It begs to be coming out of a database.

Now with the incorporation of the Vs as a non profit, CSN may get rolled into that though it's not clear yet.

If CSN uses Drupal, I can make something really really nice to do this.

The DB/CMS side of things on this system is pretty good, but is rather quirky.  Let me have a closer look.  It would be best to keep it all here.   I'll take a look at this early next week. I wasn't planning on doing fancier things until the 4.1 version of this software is released. (upgrading in middle of November)  I think something that is both easier to use, and gives us a lot of rich content would be the best thing.

 

 

 

[Grizzly]

I prefer having the list on our forum and on the first page of the thread but I don't mind it on the linked google spreadsheet either. Unless someone else is willing to put in the time and do the work to run the list we really have to accept the preferences of the guy who is willing to do it and be thankful for his efforts as well.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Grizzly

[Unnamed Trialist]

How was the original decision on the format for the MOACA made? Was it simply the best format that could be found at the time or were there other reasons given for it to be in that format? I'm afraid my tenure around here doesn't extend back long enough to know how it all came about. If an external link is the most efficient way for Jon to maintain the list (obviously a labour intensive task as several others of you understand) then that also needs to be considered. As long as the integrity of the data is maintained and Jon makes a commitment that this data will still be part of this site if something changes, then maybe his outlined approach will have to do.

Additionally I think it's a bit unfortunate that a guy who has volunteered to assume this task is faced with what is essentially an ultimatum within the first 24 hours.  

rob.notenboom clearly there is room for compromise, I am sure there is simply a misunderstanding. But there is no ultimatum at all. A very important part of the site has  been altered without habitual and expected consultation and that should not happen, ever. We let a lot of things slip, incorrectly, because we do not have a legal foundation, so all we have is "common law", accumulated practice as applied in the day to day. And that is what has kept the board alive and new people coming to it.

Asking for that to not be changed has nothing to do with ultimatums.

Another thing is we can be convinced that managing a complicated list like this would be more efficient and easier to read in another format. But propose, explain, test, wait for feedback--then make the change. And even more so when it is a very no rush thread like this one, perhaps the least "urgent" on the site.

[rob.notenboom]

UT - Completely agree that discussing any change is the right way to go. Additionally you've mentioned above about testing and seeing and that there is no real urgency here due to the nature of this thread. Completely agree with that also.

 

Disagree that 'Sorry but those are the rules and there is no negotiating' is not an ultimatum.

[Ruffian]

I think if Socceronly can accomplish what he hopes with the content in a database then both parties can get what they want. A format that can be maintained by multiple people and can store more data and also have the first page of this topic show the list.

[Vince193]

You people get bothered over the dumbest things.

[madmonte]

Thanks Vince for the productive comment, glad you added to the discussion.

Additionally, I'd been thinking of asking this for a while, and yeah I made sure if I was ever going to choose to step back from it that it was between transfer windows when there would, as socceronly said, be a lot less urgency to make any decisions.  I felt pretty lucky that fussball stepped up so quickly, actually.

From my perspective the time frame on this is going really well, hasn't even been 24 hours yet and people are already stepping up.  If there's any way at all I can help feel free to include me

Edited October 3, 2015 by madmonte

[youllneverwalkalone]

I remember, though, when I did take the thread over from jpg, there was an interim period of a month or so where absolutely noone wanted the task.  The only reason I even stepped in was because noone else would.

You don't remember very well as you took this over from me and it was an orderly transition. I believe I took the thread over from Kurosawa, who took it over from JPG.

I would suggest or echo the simple suggestion that the list be cut and paste from the google document and both be provided on the first page of a new a thread. If google is so fucking amazing, you should be able to do this in 5 seconds.

[madmonte]

Okay, so I have literal real life memory problems that I work on.  I've even admitted that on these forums before.  That said, your post confuses me a lot.  Can you please refresh my memory?  I just went and checked, and it appears jpg's thread goes from 2010 right to 2013 which is when I took it over.  I also (memory problems?) remember jpg posting asking for someone to take it over and there being no takers.  I do remember it being a very orderly transition.  It might not have been as long as a month though...

It all seemed perfectly right in my head, and now your post has me doubting myself, but as I said I even went and checked jpgs thread to find out when he started and finished

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The spreadsheet-like Google doc is much easier on the eyes. In the long term a document like Jon created is a better solution. However, let's keep the list on the first post for the next few months while Jamie finishes up site upgrates so any documents can actually be hosted here. We revisit this in December/January or when the site upgrates are complete whichever comes first.

Reasonable compromise ¿No?

Edited December 6, 2015 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[madmonte]

 Went and had a look.  I started my thread on feb 24 2013.  Apparently I volunteered right away, but didn't start the thread till February. here is the thread from jpg, oddly what I forgot was that you recommended me which I actually responded to as the catalyst for me doing it.  So if you started a thread, you didn't run it for long at all relatively speaking.  I think it's possible you might be the one having the memory lapse though, but if not help me out?  Here's the thread.

Edited October 3, 2015 by madmonte

[Lord Bob]

A database would be a good solution if it could be conveniently edited en masse and output in a format like what we're all used to. But that seems like a long-term solution.

[Fussball_eh]

A database would be a good solution if it could be conveniently edited en masse and output in a format like what we're all used to. But that seems like a long-term solution.

Why does it have to be a format we are all used to? Just because we've been using it for a decade doesn't mean it is a superior approach. My table is still a work in progress, but I think it is massively superior to a text list of players and the responses from the rational and objective replies in this thread reflect this.

I am going to be doing the google document no matter how this turns out. At the end of the day the Voyageurs have to ask themselves: "Do we want this thread and are we willing to compromise on our principles for the sake of progress?"

If you can't compromise than I am not your guy. If anyone sees value in continuing the old way, I am not going to stop you.

Thanks to all of you who have been replying to this discussion constructively.

Cheers

[nolando]

This thread has definite axis of evil potential. 

[Tuscan]

How bout we let Jamie look into how the database could work, and go on to other, more productive things such as badgering each other about going to the away leg in Mexico in March. 

[Admin]

Doing this as a database would serve several functions.

This may seem ironic, but the best way to get back to the list people like built by a database is via the Google doc. It can be more readily imported, though that depends on what and how we choose to do this.

Once that data is in a database we can output it in different ways to serve people's preference or use. Outputting the list people are used to is the easiest thing to do.  But let's no limit ourselves, lets' go beyond.

Let me give you an example. Several years ago, before the old forum got smashed, I built a graphic line up generator. You could add the player names and drag them around into what ever formation you wanted and insert it into the post.  This came from a small test database I added.   That was built in flash, which is a no go today. I have to  jump into HTML 5/JS and rebuild it.  But this database could serve as the basis for it.

Other examples would be player profiles. This could be as simple as using the membership profile system built in and pulling data from it. There would be side benefits to this. What we do for the players could also work for our members.   Instead of listing the twitter link in a doc, we would have a twitter block on the payers profile. We could add fields to the profile so that when Tuscan goes to Canada vs Honduras, he gets a Cap. Same way a player would.

Where they play, their status ect, would be the basis for a much richer realm of content.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by socceronly

[jpg75]

 

Disagree that 'Sorry but those are the rules and there is no negotiating' is not an ultimatum.

That statement of mine was a response to his "thanks for understanding". I don't go around being a dick for no reason.

[Admin]

Can someone share me on this doc, or send me the embed code to socceronly@gmail.com

I want to try to fix mimglow's attempt at embedding on a dedicated page with more space.

[Fussball_eh]

Can someone share me on this doc, or send me the embed code to socceronly@gmail.com

I want to try to fix mimglow's attempt at embedding on a dedicated page with more space.

I am out an about right now. Will email you later tonight. Thanks for being the voice of reason here.

Jon

[rob.notenboom]

That statement of mine was a response to his "thanks for understanding". I don't go around being a dick for no reason.

I try not to be a dick for any reason, sometimes unsuccessfully. 

 

Thing is, I get your point. It's important to maintain the integrity of items of historical significance on this forum. It does speak to who we are and the important work that people have put into this for (what will soon be) two decades. 

 

However, we've got a guy in Jon who seems to have quite a passion for this kind of thing, especially considering he was following Canucks in Germany before he was even on this board. Having him put his energy towards it is a very positive thing. That doesn't mean that he should necessarily do whatever he wants he wants with it and that consulting the membership (or however this should be phrased) is always a good idea before moving forward with anything. So perhaps in his eagerness he got a little ahead of the process. And in the end I suspect Jamie's database idea will end up being the format anyway and that is a different point reached than anyone was suggesting at the start.

 

I feel compelled to add though (and jpg this is not aimed at you in particular, so please don't take offence) that the dialogue around Canadian soccer over the last week or two has been a complete gong show. I've asked several people if there's a full moon or something. It seems that we can't go for more than a couple of minutes without being dicks to one another. Some of the dialogue in this thread has been quite tame in comparison to some of the other stuff on Twitter, fb, other threads in the forum, etc, etc.

 

I realize I have said similar statements before so likely sound like a broken record. But if The Voyageurs are going to grow we are going to have to get a lot better at getting along with one another and treating each other and each other's opinions with respect. If we instead take any personal slight or insult (perceived or intended) as an excuse to hit back harder the gong show will continue, and this will cease to be enjoyable for anyone. Additionally if we are the one delivering the original insult, that's not good either.

[Admin]

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/testing/

If we drop the twitter handle, use country codes, position codes and a shorter division system, this will fit on a dedicated page.

I would suggest spaces between the countries and additional copies of the column headers throughout the document.

[Admin]

The menu system is getting a complete overhaul in version 4.1.  This software is still effectively release candidate.

Wit the menu system we could have drop down menus for pages with a women's document, youth document mens document ect...