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Congrats to Cyle Larin on MLS Rookie Record


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On 4/25/2016 at 0:05 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

You lost me there, sorry.

A man who did nothing but score everywhere he went (and the last only ever true scorer on the CMNT) yet could never hold down a job for whatever reason including with the nats.

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Larin needs to show that he can score at the international level (And not with his ass). With Canada he can be borderline invisible. before he can make an impact in a top league he has to iron out a lot of issues in his game, especially learning to keep his composure when he gets a rare opportunity on goal, with Orlando he seems more carefree because he knows he'll get chances. He's only 21. Still a long way to go.

Edited by Vince193
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11 hours ago, canta15 said:

Are the lower teams in the Netharlands that bad? I heard they were only as good as 2nd division teams from the big 4 countries but not as bad as you say they are.

I never said the lower teams were bad but there is a pretty big difference between the upper and lower level teams in those leagues. And MLS teams are not bad either, we shouldn't overestimate MLS but also should not underestimate it and we also should not overestimate European leagues just because they are European. The claim was that he should go where he got better competition week in and week out and that would not be Belgium or Holland. In Belgium or Holland he would get to play a few teams at higher level than MLS, a lot of teams at similar level and a few at lower level. MLS is a parity league, there is far less difference between the Impact and the Fire than between Ajax and Cambuur. Cambuur only managed to win 3 games this year while both Ajax and PSV only lost 2 games. Ajax and PSV are currently both on 78 points while Cambuur has 18 and Graafschap 22. Those are huge differences in quality. I am not saying that Holland or Belgium would be bad options either especially if it included better coaching and possible CL/EL play it just is not a week in and week out higher level. He would be definitely better off playing in the Eredivisie than sitting on the bench in the 1st Bundesliga or Serie A (if that is what would happen if he transferred to such a high level league). Sometimes it is better to take a smaller steps than one that is too large. 

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http://www.transfermarkt.com/cyle-larin/profil/spieler/343463

Not that i put too much credance in things like what it says in the site above.   But it says that his worth is 1mill euros.  Thats nothing.   TFC got something like 3-5mill for a Maurice Edu.  The more a club pays or invests in a talent, the more likely that he is going to get a serious look and playing minutes.  And, the more likely it is that he will end up at a real club.  By that, i mean a club or competition that would be better than your average MLS club or environment.

Edited by Free kick
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Edu wasn't worth 3-5M when he got sold. He was worth 2 according to that site, but TFC/MLS wanted more to sell him.  I'm sure Orlando/MLS would do the same thing about Larin if someone comes at him in asking more than what he's worth on the free market. That's the thing with MLS transfer values, it's what the player is worth on the free market. That's why Transfermarkt for MLS players is not really a good idea to compare because clubs ask for a massive premium

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19 hours ago, Blackdude said:

Edu wasn't worth 3-5M when he got sold. He was worth 2 according to that site, but TFC/MLS wanted more to sell him.  I'm sure Orlando/MLS would do the same thing about Larin if someone comes at him in asking more than what he's worth on the free market. That's the thing with MLS transfer values, it's what the player is worth on the free market. That's why Transfermarkt for MLS players is not really a good idea to compare because clubs ask for a massive premium

I never thought Transfermarkt was any good for anything, it is pretty silly in fact.

The whole point is that there is no such thing as a player's value, as an objective reality. For Larin, say Orlando decide to sell: if Lazio come knocking he is worth a certain value; if it's Molde, about a third of that value. I seriously doubt Molde can meet the reserve price, Lazio could pay it and more. So what is the player's value: 1.5 million for Molde and 4.5 for Lazio? If Orlando insists on selling and there is only one buyer interested, those are the values (hypothetically, of course).

Which is why it makes no sense to say someone is offering too little or is asking too much.

IMO Larin, if he scores another 6-8 before the summer transfer period opens, has got to be worth around 4-5 million. But only if Orlando is willing, and especially if his agent is any good. That kid with a decent agent would already be worth more than that, a young striker, his age, scoring, but he is not being sold right.

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I never thought Transfermarkt was any good for anything, it is pretty silly in fact.

The whole point is that there is no such thing as a player's value, as an objective reality. For Larin, say Orlando decide to sell: if Lazio come knocking he is worth a certain value; if it's Molde, about a third of that value. I seriously doubt Molde can meet the reserve price, Lazio could pay it and more. So what is the player's value: 1.5 million for Molde and 4.5 for Lazio? If Orlando insists on selling and there is only one buyer interested, those are the values (hypothetically, of course).

Which is why it makes no sense to say someone is offering too little or is asking too much.

IMO Larin, if he scores another 6-8 before the summer transfer period opens, has got to be worth around 4-5 million. But only if Orlando is willing, and especially if his agent is any good. That kid with a decent agent would already be worth more than that, a young striker, his age, scoring, but he is not being sold right.

 

There's already rumors out there pegging his value to LAzio at 9M. Again, grain of salt and all that.

 

http://www.themaneland.com/2016/4/28/11527530/transfer-rumors-italian-club-lazio-interested-in-orlando-city-striker-cyle-larin

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Just now, lazlo_80 said:

There's already rumors out there pegging his value to LAzio at 9M. Again, grain of salt and all that.

 

http://www.themaneland.com/2016/4/28/11527530/transfer-rumors-italian-club-lazio-interested-in-orlando-city-striker-cyle-larin

If you are a club in Europe, and the only one bidding ,you would never release that number. Ever. You would be looking like fools, and the shareholders would be giving you hell. If there is no one else bidding, you offer a pittance.

Now if Larin has a smart agent, and released that to some guy in the press, then smart. But as long as there are no other bids, and Molde does not count as they can't get near that of course, then it is totally inflated.

What I find hilarious and embarrassing is that an MLS club and the league would play transfer games like this when the player in question is making a ridiculously low sum of money. IMHO, offer the guy a new contract, then negotiate a transfer, don't sit there laughing at the guy, with this "they want you, you'd make 700% more salary with them, but we are going to keep paying you garbage and laughing until they pay us a fortune for you." I dont like that attitude at all (Whitecaps with Camilo, similar for me).

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Okay, his agent is SEG, based in Holland with mostly Dutch players, some Belgians, others. Their highest profile player is Depay, next is De Vrij, who is at Lazio. So they have a player at Lazio, know the whole club structure, have contacts, and have offered them Larin, part of their ongoing conversations with them. They also have players at Roma, Atalanta, but mostly in Holland it seems, lesser leagues.

They also have Van Persie, Affelay, Vermaelen (they can have him back) and Locadia, who is a player I think is great, at PSV. Tranfermarkt says Locadia is worth 5 million at 22 years old. I think he is worth at least double, he has a great future.

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I think a club in Netherlands / Belgium or English / Spanish / German second league would be ideal for him. Even if Lazio buys him, it would be based on potential. No way he's gonna walk in from MLS and claim a starting spot. Surely a club like Lazio would lend him to a lower club. 

I would love to see him at Ajax, who have struggled to find a striker ever since Kluivert left for Barcelona. In fact, Larin resembles Kluivert a lot IMO, and playing at Ajax could be tacticaly very beneficial to him. 

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1 hour ago, shamrock said:

I think a club in Netherlands / Belgium or English / Spanish / German second league would be ideal for him. Even if Lazio buys him, it would be based on potential. No way he's gonna walk in from MLS and claim a starting spot. Surely a club like Lazio would lend him to a lower club. 

I would love to see him at Ajax, who have struggled to find a striker ever since Kluivert left for Barcelona. In fact, Larin resembles Kluivert a lot IMO, and playing at Ajax could be tacticaly very beneficial to him. 

That is an interesting comparison. Kluivert was more lanky and technical, more of a poacher as well. I see a physical difference.

I am also sure Larin has nowhere near the ability of Kluivert when it comes to nightlife!!

I thought those comparisons seen here with Benteke at Liverpool were interesting, that seemed more like it. 

What we really need is for Heath to ask a bit more of him, to help him develop. But when a guy is scoring I know the tendency is just to leave him alone.

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Ibrahimovic. yet I don't think any of those would bring the combo of hold-up play, short passing to set-up attacks and the scoring abilities Ajax is always looking for (with reason, they are hard to find). 

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What we really need is for Heath to ask a bit more of him, to help him develop. But when a guy is scoring I know the tendency is just to leave him alone.

Yeah cause to me, he looks quite lazy. He should be more involved in the game. And also, seeing how easy it looks to him, he should not stay too long in this league to see where his ceiling really is. 

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With his age and the rate he's scoring, I would be a bit disappointed if he transferred to the English, Spanish, or German 2nd tier. Maybe it's the Canadian in us to be modest? I don't know, but if Larin were American he would probably be looking for a top division club in a top-5 Euro league.

So, speaking of comparables, how about Jozy Altidore? Was also a highly touted, big forward coming out of MLS. And where did he go? Villarreal!

I think a mid-table team in a top-5 league should be the goal. Sure, he's Canadian, but let's not sell the boy short! He's damn good!

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1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

With his age and the rate he's scoring, I would be a bit disappointed if he transferred to the English, Spanish, or German 2nd tier. Maybe it's the Canadian in us to be modest? I don't know, but if Larin were American he would probably be looking for a top division club in a top-5 Euro league.

So, speaking of comparables, how about Jozy Altidore? Was also a highly touted, big forward coming out of MLS. And where did he go? Villarreal!

I think a mid-table team in a top-5 league should be the goal. Sure, he's Canadian, but let's not sell the boy short! He's damn good!

If he gets the same #s as last year I can see him starting for a relegation fighting team in the top 4 leagues.

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1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

With his age and the rate he's scoring, I would be a bit disappointed if he transferred to the English, Spanish, or German 2nd tier. Maybe it's the Canadian in us to be modest? I don't know, but if Larin were American he would probably be looking for a top division club in a top-5 Euro league.

So, speaking of comparables, how about Jozy Altidore? Was also a highly touted, big forward coming out of MLS. And where did he go? Villarreal!

I think a mid-table team in a top-5 league should be the goal. Sure, he's Canadian, but let's not sell the boy short! He's damn good!

I think the feeling is that guaranteed starts in the 2.Bundesliga are better than coming off the bench in a top four league (and/or one dry spell away from depth player status). To use Hutchinson as a model, I think going somewhere where you are a key player from day one is better than going with the biggest club possible. 

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1 hour ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

With his age and the rate he's scoring, I would be a bit disappointed if he transferred to the English, Spanish, or German 2nd tier. Maybe it's the Canadian in us to be modest? I don't know, but if Larin were American he would probably be looking for a top division club in a top-5 Euro league.

So, speaking of comparables, how about Jozy Altidore? Was also a highly touted, big forward coming out of MLS. And where did he go? Villarreal!

I think a mid-table team in a top-5 league should be the goal. Sure, he's Canadian, but let's not sell the boy short! He's damn good!

If he was American he would be overhyped and go somewhere above his level where he would fail and end up in a lower division or back in MLS in a year or two. I think the Dutch league or 2nd Bundesliga would be a great place for him to continue developing.

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I agree with Grizzly, he still needs to develop. And ideally in a modest league or 2nd tier with patience to give him minutes. And also speculating on him a bit, playing him thinking about a future sale.

The problem in MLS, as I see it, is that you do not see strikers developing. You see some mids, some defenders for sure, but not strikers. He will get minutes but will probably not learn to pressure, move off the ball.  I mean, a kid like that should just sit and watch Suarez without the ball, it is totally amazing, a lesson. Larin does not have 40% of that work rate and positional intelligence. For his body type, I think that is the model.

I can think right now of Spain first division, the first team to relegate, Levante. Well Levante is an incredible team that plays good football regardless of their bad season. And I don't think Larin has the level to play for Levante. Or for any of the teams in the bottom of the table, he'd have to compete with Caicedo at Espanyol, Rayo has Manucho and Javi Guerra, Sanabria at Gijon who is younger and more talented...I could go on. Is he good enough to occasionally sub on, being young? I guess so.

Thing is, you have to get into a mix to really know, to really find out. Get onto a squad, get playing time. If Orlando was in any other league, with the results they had last year, they would have been relegation threatened and probably would not have happily played Cyle as much, they would have been shitting their pants about going down a division. And he would have sat while some veteran was brought in.

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