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Olivier Occean

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One of the argument that is often presented in this debate (there should be no debate, OO should´ve been called or at the very least should be) is that we aren t creating chances.

Well, I think we can all agree that one of OO strenght is his hold up. So, you could argue that with better hold up play we ll have less turnovers and maybe we ll be able to create more chances. It´s not automatic and it´s tough to measure but it´s worth trying. No?

Regarding team chemistry, do we really have that? Did you guys watched the GC?I would say we have very little chemistry going forward, so playing a forward who might give you better hold up play isn t really the biggest risk for team chemistry....

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Dear Wingback 6,

Why is it so painful for you to accept that Occean has earned a call based on merit? It doesn't matter who's spot he takes. Take him as an extra man. Whatever it takes - let's just hope we get this man into camp. I mean, he provides competition for Larin, plays the same position, is in good form, has plenty of experience, wants to be included, what more do you want? You want to see him become a "dribbling wizard" like Haber before he gets your approval?

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of course i was being sarcastic!!! Just to show that guy how far his ideas of a weirdo,  his balance and remarks were,  you cant teach sarcasm and irony  mon frères!!!  Salut

Edited by JAVIERF

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The only reason not to call him up is worries about his attitude.  We have all heard the rumors from a few years back about some bad apples, bad team mates.  If Floro thinks he'll be an sulker/complainer in the dressing room maybe he doesn't want him.  Wasn't it RADZ or maybe if PESCHO that didn't get called for years in their prime because of a bad blood with the manager?  Even if he doesn't play I think we need to get him into Floros system so that we can at least see if he can get along.  Skill wise, form wise its not even an intelligent argument to say he shouldnt be there.  And as for blooding young talent, GEESHH, this is WCQ, we need to WIN!!!  Best 11 out there even if they are 40, or their name is Hoilett.

Edited by Bison44

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Not having players who can provide him service is a stupid reason to not call him up. The rest of the team sucks so lets not call up our best poacher. Makes sense.

 

Why is it stupid?  Make a case.

 

I think we can all agree that we didn't create enough chances during the GC. I'm also not convinced that OO would have scored any of the chances that we did have. But who can say? Would we have created more... maybe, maybe not.

 

And while he is a great poacher, at club level, which I do not dispute, he is hardly our best goal scorer. At least not at int'l level. Ricketts and Larin have done equally well against similar opponents. A fact that people on here seem to conveniently overlook.

 

Ricketts even put two past Dominica.... after scoring 1 club goal all of the previous season... a season during which he played right back....

 

Ofcourse you might say 'if OO hadn't have been suspended things would be different' but that is pure conjecture.. It's possible OO would have scored, and helped us, he might not of... we'll never know for sure.

 

But this will all be a mute point once the roster is released. Speaking of which.... WTF???

Edited by Wingback6

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The case is you dont not call up a good player because the rest of the team sucks.

Its pretty simple.

So if we have a leo messi lets not call him up because we cant provide him any service... Like i said. That logic is pretty stupid.

Its great Ricketts and larin have scored against minnows. So has occean. Competition in camp is good. The more the merrier. Especially in form players.

Edited by king1010

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Wingback6 you are my inspiration and gave me this fantastic idea:

 

Our finishing and service sucks so LETS NOT CALL ANY STRIKERS AT ALL! Who needs strikers anyway? And if you think my idea is stupid, make some logical argument against it all you Striker Kool Aid Drinkers! And from my condescending tone you can see that I think no one on this forum knows anything about soccer. World Cup here we come!

Edited by Grizzly

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58 minutes ago, Canadian Pride said:

Just curious. 

We all talk about how we lack in strikers etc....

how come occean was never called up during this World Cup cycle? And no one ever talked about him? 

 

Ppl did talk about him last summer. His brother was quoted as saying he was open to playing for us again. 

I guess the coaching brass werent interested. 

Could be his falling out with hart and the csa at the end of the 2014 cycle. We all know what floro thinks about showing up the coach. 

Edited by king1010

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Odd have finished 3rd in the Tippeligaen and qualified for the Europa League again.

If we can believe Wikipedia he is the (tied)4th best scorer this year with 10 goals. He was 3rd best in 2015 with 15 goals. Consistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Tippeligaen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Tippeligaen

There are two streams of thought on this board:

1)Focus only on Qatar 2022 and call only young players

2)Focus on rankings and the Gold Cup this summer and call only your best players.

I am in Category 2. I think Occean may be able to help us at the Gold Cup and may be a better option than Haber. No I don't think he'll be what we need in 2021, but 2017 is still important.

The man has been frozen out of the program for over 4 years now. No short sentence. I want someone to ask why Findlay should or shouldn't call him and I don't want a ******** pussyfooting Floro-style answer.

Edited by Olympique_de_Marseille

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I agree. I'd take him over Haber. Can someone refresh my memory as to why or if he is blacklisted? Cause of a dispute in WCQ throwing Hart under the bus, no? 

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18 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

I agree. I'd take him over Haber. Can someone refresh my memory as to why or if he is blacklisted? Cause of a dispute in WCQ throwing Hart under the bus, no? 

Wasn't it the Cuba game and subsequent temper tantrum? He shoved an official, was suspended, then bitched about Hart after the SPS game.

As for him and the MNT I would like one other legit option in the mix for striker, it seems now it's either MH or CL. I'd rather Cavalini but I think that's never going to happen again. OO has been good and consistent, maybe just having him around the team can push some guys to be better.

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I fall into the "forget about Olivier Occean already" camp. A 35 year old striker who was generally ineffective in his national team appearances (save for 2012 v Cuba), hasn't played with the program in over 4 years, and royally ****** over his country during the 2012 qualification cycle by getting suspended? I don't think 10 goals in the Tippeligaen is enough to overlook those facts. Pass.

Based on current form I would argue that Ricketts would be more effective up front than Occean as a super sub. 

He's not going to be a part of the national team going forward. Time to move on.

Edited by shermanator

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2 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I fall into the "forget about Olivier Occean already" camp. A 35 year old striker who was generally ineffective in his national team appearances (save for 2012 v Cuba), hasn't played with the program in over 4 years, and royally ****** over his country during the 2012 qualification cycle? Pass.

He's not going to be a part of the national team going forward. Time to move on.

I'm with you on the don't call OO for the GC but your assessment of his play in 2012 isn't fair at all. I'd say that he was pretty good and effective against Cuba (away), Honduras and Panama at home but was poor in his last game (Cuba at home). His strong hold up play was something we missed this time around. It seems people rate forwards only on goal scored but OO was a solid players for us in 2012 despite not scoring in every game.

Also not sure how he "****** over" his country when the RC he received was dubious but I sure know 11 players who ****** up in SPS in 2012 and many of them were called back to the MNT with no one complaining.

 

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4 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Odd have finished 3rd in the Tippeligaen and qualified for the Europa League again.

If we can believe Wikipedia he is the (tied)4th best scorer this year with 10 goals. He was 3rd best in 2015 with 15 goals. Consistent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Tippeligaen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Tippeligaen

There are two streams of thought on this board:

1)Focus only on Qatar 2022 and call only young players

2)Focus on rankings and the Gold Cup this summer and call only your best players.

I am in Category 2. I think Occean may be able to help us at the Gold Cup and may be a better option than Haber. No I don't think he'll be what we need in 2021, but 2017 is still important.

The man has been frozen out of the program for over 4 years now. No short sentence. I want someone to ask why Findlay should or shouldn't call him and I don't want a ******** pussyfooting Floro-style answer.

The real mistake with OO is that if called by Floro in 2015, when he was playing well and scoring in Norway, he would've been a solid asset for us. Challenging Larin for the starting spot would've been good for Cyle and good for the team. 

That being said, I'm not sure it would be that great of an idea to call him back now. First, it's seems he has slow down a bit and we have a few interesting young options that will be there in 4 years which probably won't be the case with OO.

Edited by aloyol

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15 minutes ago, aloyol said:

 it's seems he has slow down a bit

We say this because of his age. Larin had 17 goals in MLS in 2015. Only 14 for 2016. Is Larin worse now as well? To be fair, I don't have Larin's and OO's  km run/game stats.

 

15 minutes ago, aloyol said:

 a few interesting young options

Who do we have besides the established guys (Larin, Ricketts, Jackson, Haber) + maybe Cavallini, that we know that would be a good bet to do as well or better?

Edited by Olympique_de_Marseille

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19 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

We say this because of his age. Larin had 17 goals in MLS in 2015. Only 14 for 2016. Is Larin worse now as well? To be fair, I don't have Larin's and OO's  km run/game stats.

 

Who do we have besides the established guys (Larin, Ricketts, Jackson, Haber) + maybe Cavallini, that we know that would be a good bet to do as well or better?

I follow OO career in Norway and his 2016 season did look less productive than the 2015 where he scored a lot in Norway and Europa league. 15 Tippeigaen goals in 2015 vs 10 in 2015. When I said "slow down" I was talking about production.

Larin, Jackson, Haber, Ricketts and Hamilton. I expect at least 2-3 of those guys to be playing at a better level than OO in 3-4 years when the next cycle starts.

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2 hours ago, aloyol said:

I'm with you on the don't call OO for the GC but your assessment of his play in 2012 isn't fair at all. I'd say that he was pretty good and effective against Cuba (away), Honduras and Panama at home but was poor in his last game (Cuba at home). His strong hold up play was something we missed this time around. It seems people rate forwards only on goal scored but OO was a solid players for us in 2012 despite not scoring in every game.

Also not sure how he "****** over" his country when the RC he received was dubious but I sure know 11 players who ****** up in SPS in 2012 and many of them were called back to the MNT with no one complaining.

 

I don't recall Occean doing anything of note in either the Panama or Honduras games at home in 2012. Perhaps I've wiped the 0-0 draw with Honduras out of my head.

Regarding his red card, quite frankly, getting a red card in a game that was simply an automatic 3 points is inexcusable. I've never understood why players have to fight over the ball after a goal is scored and it was simply childish. Also his comments trashing Hart after the 2012 qualification cycle showed his true colours. Funny how the same coach has taken an arguably less talented team to the hex in the following qualification cycle.

I will agree with you on the others in the 8-1 loss. I don't think Occean would have made a difference either way but the fact that he wasn't there during the biggest game in 12 years burned the bridges for me. The performances he's had at the club level, while impressive, aren't enough for me to overlook that stretch of mistakes.

I think we need to work towards getting some of the newer players cohesive for the 2017 Gold Cup, rather than latching on to players who have never been that great, but may be in slightly better form than those who've been with the program the whole time. 

If we are anti Haber, I'd rather see Akindele or Ricketts up front as a super sub over Occean. I could also see Jordan Hamilton be a decent fit off the bench, given his exceptional finishing  with the youth teams, and at times with TFC this year. Hell, I'd rather see Ballou Tabla called for the Gold Cup over Olivier Occean, and I don't think he's near enough ready as of today.

Edited by shermanator

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12 hours ago, shermanator said:

Also his comments trashing Hart after the 2012 qualification cycle showed his true colours. Funny how the same coach has taken an arguably less talented team to the hex in the following qualification cycle.

 

Funny how  many V's did forgive DeRo and JDG  trashing Dale Mitchell during (DeRo) and after (Julian) the 2008 WCQ, while OO doing the same thing is met with a different reaction.

Also, let's not kid ourselves about Hart, T&T was in an easy group and their chance of going through were already pretty good. Put T&T in our group with Mexico, Honduras and El Salvador and I doubt they would've qualified. Their results int he Hex, specially against Honduras, will give us a good idea of their real quality. 

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3 minutes ago, aloyol said:

Funny how  many V's did forgive DeRo and JDG  trashing Dale Mitchell during (DeRo) and after (Julian) the 2008 WCQ, while OO doing the same thing is met with a different reaction.

Also, let's not kid ourselves about Hart, T&T was in an easy group and their chance of going through were already pretty good. Put T&T in our group with Mexico, Honduras and El Salvador and I doubt they would've qualified. Their results int he Hex, specially against Honduras, will give us a good idea of their real quality. 

I wasn't around in 2008, but if you go back to September, I was quite outspoken on Will Johnson's alleged trashing of Floro in a public setting.

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/topic/27616-will-johnson-update/?do=findComment&comment=569089

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