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The Floro Bandwagon


madmonte
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Osorio plays on the left for TFC and Teibert has been a preferred option for Floro on the right but he was hurt

Every coach has his blindside and I believe Benito Floro's is Ricketts. Over a dozen giveaways and he is not in sync with his teammates, he seems to be always too behind their pass. 

I fail to see how Osorio or even Teibert are worse options on the right.

Agreed. Ricketts is a really nice guy; says thanks to all the fans but he should be used as a sub in the last 10 minutes when the defenders are tired and his speed will be of most use. His touch is not good and a guy like Teibert could have dribbled his way out of some situations that I think Ricketts couldn't manage.

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The Honduras game was the best I've seen us play in years. It gives me hope to see us play that way. Yes the goal was a bit lucky but the build up play wasn't, the cross wasn't, Will's header was on target. So it went in off Larin's back as he was horizontal. So what?

Yes we are lucky to be at 4 points instead of 2 but we could also be at 6.

our big concern is still scoring. A coach of a national team can't turn players into goal machines, he can only try to optimize the number of chances we get and minimize the number the other team gets. So far he is doing that.

Edited by TRM
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what? he played like 15-20 games at LM, a few at CM and a few as a second striker. I honestly can't recall him playing on the right all year

I agree. I do not think he had a game where he started in the right. Mostly as a LM. They switched wingers a few times so Osorio was playing on the right, but he disappeared since he could not cut inside as easily.

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The Honduras game was the best I've seen us play in years. It gives me hope to see us play that way. Yes the goal was a bit lucky but the build up play wasn't, the cross wasn't, Will's header was on target. So it went in off Larin's back as he was horizontal. So what?

Yes we are lucky to be at 4 points instead of 2 but we could also be at 6.

our big concern is still scoring. A coach of a national team can't turn players into goal machines, he can only try to optimize the number of chances we get and minimize the number the other team gets. So far he is doing that.

We create one chance a game. How is that optimizing? Floro plays to not lose. Not to win.

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For what it is worth, this is only the 3rd time since 2000 i.e. 15 YEARS!! that Canada has won 6 games in a calendar year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_men's_national_soccer_team_match_results

This tells me a few things: We are playing more games, both friendlies and official matches, this is a good thing. In fact, we've played more games this year (14) than any year since 2000.

It also tells me that Floro is playing to win, because he is winning more than we normally do, this is good.

We are slowly but surely moving away from the doldrums of previous campaigns like 2002 (2W, 0D, 7L), 2008 (4w, 3d, 6L) and 2013 (0w, 3D, 10L)

This tells me that Floro and the rest of management are serious about improving things for the program. People might not like Floro's tactics but the proof is there: we are playing more often, we are winning more and we lose fewer games. . 

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I noticed a ton of people are unhappy with how Floro is deploying Hutch as the defensive 1 in the 4-1-4-1 formation. Quite frankly, we don't come away from SLV with the point without Hutch as the calming influence in front of our back four. There were a few times in that match you could tell Jako, Straith, and De Jong started panicking, and Hutch calmed the situation, got us out of trouble, and allowed us to move the ball forward. Hutch in that spot is our key to improving our results, as his world class skill and composure on the ball is keeping us from totally collapsing at the back. Curious if Straith is statistically the better option than Edgar. Not sure that can be computed.

 

I'm 100% on the Floro bandwagon - I think he's the reason Aird and Hoilett signed on since they see his coaching pedigree and believe they can learn from him.

Edited by Tuscan
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Curious if Straith is statistically the better option than Edgar. Not sure that can be computed.

Didn't get to see this match but I was a defender of Straith's play in the Honduras game.  However, I'm sure a factor in Edgar not starting was injury and lack of first time action in the last six weeks.  All things being equal I honestly prefer seeing Edgar out there because he's the clear leader of the back four when he's on the field whereas Straith and Jakovic are more supporting cast types.

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I was not a fan of Floro's tactics in July, but have totally bought in after these two matches.

Our defensive structure was breached exactly twice in two matches (and one of those was off the Straith giveaway and resulted in a non-dangerous shot from outside the box).  

I agreed with basically every single sub he made (I would have liked to see Akindele come in for Ricketts and move Hoilett out wide right, but Hoilett did look pretty gassed).  

Do we create a ton of chances?  Not really - but I think you need to look at it comparatively.  Outside of the Cuba home match in 2012, the match where we created the most clear cut offensive chances was....in Honduras!  

So let's not make it like Floro has completely throttled our immense offensive powers.  He has greatly improved the organization of this team in order to attempt to get road draws (including THE road draw in September), which also gives me confidence in us being able to frustrate Mexico in March.

Edited by theaub
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it would probably be wise to wait and see where this goes before we call him a failure though! I don't like everything he does but he seems to have us well organized which hasn't been the case in years, there's a lot to be said about being hard to beat! sometimes I wonder where this free flowing attacking football which many crave is going to come from, although we have more potential now I just don't see us dominating teams in the heat of Central America! Often it comes down to players performing as they should in the positions they are set up in by the manager, if Larin finishes last night there would be a lot less complaining about Floro!

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it would probably be wise to wait and see where this goes before we call him a failure though! I don't like everything he does but he seems to have us well organized which hasn't been the case in years, there's a lot to be said about being hard to beat! sometimes I wonder where this free flowing attacking football which many crave is going to come from, although we have more potential now I just don't see us dominating teams in the heat of Central America! Often it comes down to players performing as they should in the positions they are set up in by the manager, if Larin finishes last night there would be a lot less complaining about Floro!

No one is advocating free flowing offensive football. People are advocating for an offensive midfielder like Keven Aleman coming on as a sub in our 3 DM system. A guy who is scoring goals in Costa Rica and used to the heat. Or dabbling with a 2 forward system when the opportunity presents itself, or bringing on a Michael Petrasso type player in the 2nd half.

This isn't about supporters thinking we can play like Barca. This is about supporters who occasionally get frustrated their manager seems to have no interest in ever trying to seize the initiate in any games, no matters the circumstances.

Edited by Soccerpro
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We create one chance a game. How is that optimizing? Floro plays to not lose. Not to win.

Not so sure about that.  If we were being too economical in attacking I'd agree but I don't think we are.  Selective attaching?  For sure,  and there's nothing wrong with that, but we're not being stingy.  Not to my eye anyway.  Now what the lads make of those moments is another thing, but that isn't down to Floro.

Stingy on the timing of the subs.  That's my take to this point but on Tuesday even that could be attributed to seeking tactical advantage.  Reacting to the ESV subs. 

Don't know enough about ESV to justify any of Floro's subs as a countering to his opponents decisions and maybe it's not the boldest approach to the match but it is at least, given the results of the day, arguably the correct one.

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Not so sure about that.  If we were being too economical in attacking I'd agree but I don't think we are.  Selective attaching?  For sure,  and there's nothing wrong with that, but we're not being stingy.  Not to my eye anyway.  Now what the lads make of those moments is another thing, but that isn't down to Floro.

Stingy on the timing of the subs.  That's my take to this point but on Tuesday even that could be attributed to seeking tactical advantage.  Reacting to the ESV subs. 

Don't know enough about ESV to justify any of Floro's subs as a countering to his opponents decisions and maybe it's not the boldest approach to the match but it is at least, given the results of the day, arguably the correct one.

We had at least 2 half decent scoring chances after the subs were made, I would have liked to see Haber for Larin but he had good reason to withdraw Hoilett, Johnson and JDG!

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No one is advocating free flowing offensive football. People are advocating for an offensive midfielder like Keven Aleman coming on as a sub in our 3 DM system. A guy who is scoring goals in Costa Rica and used to the heat. Or dabbling with a 2 forward system when the opportunity presents itself, or bringing on a Michael Petrasso type player in the 2nd half.

This isn't about supporters thinking we can play like Barca. This is about supporters who occasionally get frustrated their manager seems to have no interest in ever trying to seize the initiate in any games, no matters the circumstances.

I agree with the Petrasso comment and hopefully he has done enough to be considered for future matches!

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No one is advocating free flowing offensive football. People are advocating for an offensive midfielder like Keven Aleman coming on as a sub in our 3 DM system. A guy who is scoring goals in Costa Rica and used to the heat. Or dabbling with a 2 forward system when the opportunity presents itself, or bringing on a Michael Petrasso type player in the 2nd half.

This isn't about supporters thinking we can play like Barca. This is about supporters who occasionally get frustrated their manager seems to have no interest in ever trying to seize the initiate in any games, no matters the circumstances.

And which match so far would you propose using that in?

We've controlled possession in both matches so far.  Throwing caution to the wind on the road in Central America seems like the dumbest option there is tbh

Edited by theaub
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And which match so far would you propose using that in?

We've controlled possession in both matches so far.  Throwing caution to the wind on the road in Central America seems like the dumbest option there is tbh

I would have brought Aleman on vs El Salvador.

We controlled possession vs El Salvador? You mean defenders passing it around in our half? Or Cyle Larin running 1v5 against El Salvador's back line?

Subbing one offensive CM in a 4-5-1 is not "throwing caution to the wind". It's about trying to find a hint of balance when a team is out of ideas.

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Count me on the Floro bandwagon:

1. Has brought a coherent plan and identity to the team. Not exciting, but perhaps more realistic given the offensive talent levels of the senior team.

2. Has recruited some of the top available talent.

3. Is the best dressed soccer coach I have seen and absolutely outclasses every other national team coach in the world. 

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Usually after two games of the semi-final round I come up with preposterous ways Canada could qualify. Four points isn't as good as six, but it's a hell of a lot better than one. We are three points up on third and our nemesis is four points behind us. A point at home against Mexico is a good possibility as is El Salvador taking some points of Honduras. The schedule could not have been more favourably set up in my opinion. The last game will probably mean something and it's at home. So, yeah, I'm on the Floro bandwagon too.

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We've controlled possession in both matches so far.  Throwing caution to the wind on the road in Central America seems like the dumbest option there is tbh

But by not going for the 3 points a little harder and settling for a draw against a sub-par El Salvador team in mild conditions with a half-full stadium means we might have to "throw caution to the wind" away to Honduras if we need a result.

Wouldn't going for the win against el salvador be the more logical strategy? If we had, Canada could very well be on 6 points right now. Instead we are doing stupid math and hoping for favourable results (as usual).

I don't think Floro is a bad coach. He can certainly teach defense, discipline, and keeping formation. Also, for the most part, I don't mind his rosters. But I do wish he was less conservative, especially when the opportunity was right there....

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I believe we squandered an opportunity to grab 3 pts in ES. Our chances were very few. Don't think we were in it to win it playing the Benito special TTT or Triple T (turtle turtle tactic) which is unfortunate considering the opponent wasn't playing with its top lineup and looked ripe for the picking.

Apart from the strategy and formation, our players looked drained and the field was horrible. The ball was bouncing on the surface quite often.

Unless ES gets their top players back I can't see how Honduras won't be able to take 6pts in the next round in March. 

Edited by Moldy9
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This tells me that Floro and the rest of management are serious about improving things for the program. People might not like Floro's tactics but the proof is there: we are playing more often, we are winning more and we lose fewer games. . 

This...

Count me on the Floro bandwagon:

1. Has brought a coherent plan and identity to the team. Not exciting, but perhaps more realistic given the offensive talent levels of the senior team.

2. Has recruited some of the top available talent.

3. Is the best dressed soccer coach I have seen and absolutely outclasses every other national team coach in the world. 

and this... 

No one is advocating free flowing offensive football. People are advocating for an offensive midfielder like Keven Aleman coming on as a sub in our 3 DM system. A guy who is scoring goals in Costa Rica and used to the heat. Or dabbling with a 2 forward system when the opportunity presents itself, or bringing on a Michael Petrasso type player in the 2nd half.

This isn't about supporters thinking we can play like Barca. This is about supporters who occasionally get frustrated their manager seems to have no interest in ever trying to seize the initiate in any games, no matters the circumstances.

If you don't have the players to play a certain way, then don't! That's what Floro has done. Remember it's practically the same group of players as in Honduras. Larin is an upgrade but still young, and now Hoilett has joined them (this was his 3rd game with this group). 

Talking about Aleman, I think he should be called-in in March, if he continues to get minutes in Costa Rica. Hard to tell wether he could have made a difference though. Regarding Petrasso, that's BS. The kid hasn't played a single professional minute this season yet you expect him to lead the offense on the international stage? Let him establish himself first at a respectable level, like League One or the Championship before we bring him into the conversation.

Still on the wagon.

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I'm not sold on the Benito Special and the hype surrounding this years record and the T T T  (Turtle Turtle Tactic).  Who did we beat to get that record? Belize, Guatemala, Dominicax2, Puerto Rico, and Honduras with a Larin backer. Just not buying into the propaganda and not sure how this tactic will get us goals against Mexico at home. Can't expect him to play attacking cause it doesn't seem like attack is part of his repertoire.

 

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