tc-in-bc Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 July 22, 2015, Portland Thorns 0 Seattle Reign 1. Attendance : 21 144 August 1, 2015, the 2015 FA Cup final (women) Chelsea Ladies 1 Notts County Ladies 0. Attendance: 30 710 August 9, 2015, the 2015 Svenska Cupen damer ( Swedish Cup - women) Linkoping 2 Rosengard 0. Attendance: 5602 August 9,2015, the 2015 League One Ontario Womens Cup North Mississauga Panthers 2 Vaughan Azzurri 1. Estimated attendance 200 Post WWC, some of these high caliber women's leagues ( England, Sweden, USA ) have received huge increases in attendance. While no disrespect for League One Ontario - womens division is intended -- any comparisons would be disheartening. It seems like the WWC in Canada helped to grow the women's game in other countries but less so for Canada. Overall it feels like there's a growing gap between Canada and some of the world's top nations in women's soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 July 22, 2015, Portland Thorns 0 Seattle Reign 1. Attendance : 21 144 August 1, 2015, the 2015 FA Cup final (women) Chelsea Ladies 1 Notts County Ladies 0. Attendance: 30 710 August 9, 2015, the 2015 Svenska Cupen damer ( Swedish Cup - women) Linkoping 2 Rosengard 0. Attendance: 5602 August 9,2015, the 2015 League One Ontario Womens Cup North Mississauga Panthers 2 Vaughan Azzurri 1. Estimated attendance 200 Post WWC, some of these high caliber women's leagues ( England, Sweden, USA ) have received huge increases in attendance. While no disrespect for League One Ontario - womens division is intended -- any comparisons would be disheartening. It seems like the WWC in Canada helped to grow the women's game in other countries but less so for Canada. Overall it feels like there's a growing gap between Canada and some of the world's top nations in women's soccer. This is fairly selective use of statistics I'm afraid. The Thorns have had much higher attendance than the rest of the league for quite some time (by my calculation the Thorns avg around 20,000/game vs the rest of the league's 3500/game this season) and the women's FA Cup final had a solid attendance but their league games have only recently cracked 2000/game. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/28508/9911416/fa-wsl-breaks-attendance-records-after-englands-world-cup-heroics Admittedly the NWSL and WSL have had an attendance bump but nearly as high as the stats you've cited above suggest (about +700/game for the NWSL). This is not terribly surprising given that the U.S. won the WWC and England went deep in the tournament. As for comparing L1O to NWSL, the former is a developmental league and the latter a professional league so there is really no point in comparing their attendances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc-in-bc Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 [ 1 ] The stats may be selective, but they are VERY RECENT ( a matter of days and weeks ) and they serve to drive home an emotional point about the disparity in women's club soccer in Canada relative to some other nations. The Damallsvenskan, the FAWSL, the NWSL are all strong women's leagues which are feeder systems into their respective national teams. The caliber of play in these leagues is high and they include a degree of high level youth development/player development. Having such leagues gives their respective nations a competitive advantage over Canada. Then when you add good attendance to a good league: it feels like Canada is far behind in this matter. - an interesting graphic about NWSL attendance: [ 2 ] Perhaps comparing attendances is a little unfair, but the CSA is hopeful that L1O will help to produce players for the CANWNT. John Herdman expressed the hope that L1O would help "potential national team stars ... make the jump from the youth ranks into the professional realm." In addition, he stated that L1O would be a league on "home soil" where " developing the Canadian player is a priority " ( a veiled shot at the NWSL ). This pipeline role is something that L1O shares with other women's leagues throughout the world, and consequently, comparisions with other leagues, while a little disheartening, should not be dismissed. Perhaps, it is through comparison that L1O will identify needed improvements to help the league succeed and to produce future NT players. - John Herdman's statement about L1O: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjGwHzlq3zI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Completely agree that we are far behind and that a women's pro-league will be necessary for Canada to keep up. Personally I doubt that L1O will become a league that will feed players directly to the CWNT but who knows for certain. The problem with selective out-of-context use of stats is that anyone can use them to say almost anything and they conflate the situation rather than bring light to it. 'The total number of fans that watched the CWNT in June was over 200,000 people! Wow women's soccer must be doing fantastic in Canada!' Anyway, I believe your larger point is that Women's soccer in Canada is in trouble. And in that respect I completely agree. We need a lot more than L1O. We need a similar developmental league in every region with a large population and a high level competitive league above that. Unfortunately we seem miles away from establishing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Meanwhile the USWNT will play a bragging tour twice against Costa Rica, Australia and Brazil. Possible 4 more games to be announced. Morgan and Leroux are out due to surgery. Solo is injured and Wambach is inactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 and 5 of the 6 matches played by the US will be on turf rather than grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 People complain about hockey being expensive, but this puts it into perspective. A hockey season in Ontario will likely cost a 17-player team $65k (so $5k a year) at the single A level for 10-12 year olds, plus equipment; this gets offset by fundraising and sponsorship, so a parent might end up paying $3k - again, plus equipment, hotels (few), additional instruction. I probably spent $5k all in for my son last year. AAA for 14 year olds could see the team budget double. My biggest struggle has been to convince people that they should be prepared to spend the same on their daughters as they do on their sons. We are in a pay-to-play environment in North America. We don't have pro teams financing development. Full stop. There's no excuse for soccer being an expensive sport like hockey, it shouldn't cost more than $140 per summer season per child for fields/administration/refs. Travel should be limited to reasonable distances (I had a friend whose daughter was travelling from Ottawa to Kingston for league games - insane). Uniforms kept by the teams, boots exchanges to reduce those costs. There's some weird Canadian mentality demanding that parents spend vast amounts for their children in sports which seems to benefit no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 The problem is you are a reasonable rational person who can see the entire forest and are not lost in the trees and politics and vested interests that will not budge. If you asked kids at 18 if they would have rather been handed the keys to a new Porsche or down-payment on a house, how many would answer soccer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc-in-bc Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Official 2015 WWC technical report and statistics (laborious) : http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/technicalsupport/02/67/08/90/fwwc2015_report_web_neutral.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's no excuse for soccer being an expensive sport like hockey, it shouldn't cost more than $140 per summer season per child for fields/administration/refs. Travel should be limited to reasonable distances (I had a friend whose daughter was travelling from Ottawa to Kingston for league games - insane). Uniforms kept by the teams, boots exchanges to reduce those costs. Market rates for hockey ice per hour are the major driver of hockey costs (private ice in GTA is $350 per hour, municipal ice is more likely $150-$220 depending on the town - and it will be less in other places). Two thirds of the budget go directly to just ice rental, before you get into refs / scorekeepers / specialty coaches. Equipment is a minor consideration. I have no idea how much field rentals cost. I disagree that uniforms - for soccer - should be recycled. There are low cost alternatives and frankly they are sweaty clothes. There's a reason you can't return swimsuits. As for travel, you go where the competition is - it is a direct function of the participation numbers. Girls soccer has high enough numbers that I'm surprised Ottawa to Kingston would be a frequent happening. There's probably more to it than that (association/ or coach/parent issues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's no excuse for soccer being an expensive sport like hockey, it shouldn't cost more than $140 per summer season per child for fields/administration/refs. Travel should be limited to reasonable distances (I had a friend whose daughter was travelling from Ottawa to Kingston for league games - insane). Uniforms kept by the teams, boots exchanges to reduce those costs. There's some weird Canadian mentality demanding that parents spend vast amounts for their children in sports which seems to benefit no one. That's available it is called house league and in Ottawa there are lots of programs like that. Elite athletes development means coaches paid professional salary's of 40 to 80 thousand a year, plus costs of a training centre etc. You do not win world cups with house league programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Elite athletes development means coaches paid professional salary's of 40 to 80 thousand a year, plus costs of a training centre etc. That's 1% of all players. I think he's talking about the other 99%.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I was (over)reacting to Vic's post about OPDL costing $8000 and assuming that costs were getting very high even for the non-OPDL junior soccer player. Still, $8000 seems like a sure way to remove all but the wealthy kids from participating in that program which seems counterproductive. I know the costs for hockey are naturally much high than soccer for all sorts of reasons. As for winning world cups, I wonder what the outlay per year for parents is for junior soccer players in Spain and Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Talent is worth more than money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Talent is worth more than money. Best post ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 That's available it is called house league and in Ottawa there are lots of programs like that. Elite athletes development means coaches paid professional salary's of 40 to 80 thousand a year, plus costs of a training centre etc. You do not win world cups with house league programs. That's 1% of all players. I think he's talking about the other 99%.... That it's only 1% is our problem. In hockey probably 25-30% of players are competitive rather than house league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Oh 29% of soccer players are "competitive"... the difference is around the world people know these kids will never make a dime from the game and don't fleece them and they all play recreationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 What 5 differences do you see between the North American women game and that of South America. My 5 differences are: Size Physical strength Running speed Ball control skill Direct vs interpassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 South American v. North American women: 1. mental comfort/confidence on the ball 2. fluid movement with the ball 3. half the athleticism 4. far more passion 5. more individualistic and not as team-oriented in their play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc-in-bc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 A few points: [ 1 ] Vivianne Miedema is wearing a number 17 CANWNT jersey -- probably exchanged with Jessie Fleming some time around the Canada vs Netherlands 2015 WWC group stage game. [ 2 ] A television interview with Charmaine Hooper and Helen Stoumbos during the WWC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqzVS_bUJ2Q [ 3 ] I know this is just a commercial, but Asisat Oshoala ( Nigerian Super Falcon/Liverpool Lady striker ) is playing on sand/dirt -- not grass or turf -- with hint of grass at the 1:15 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sN9IEkBUoU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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