WWC 2015 - Quarter-final - June 27 - Canada vs. England [R]

[gigi riva]

   Canada   did   not   create  enough   chances   in  the  game  at  all   the  only  difference in the  game  was   3  minutes    Sesselmans  error  cost  us  big  time   but   still   you  have  to  create  chances  and  we  did  not   do  that.  

[-Hammer-]

The young players are getting their chance at the PanAm games.  This tournament was for the vets, and rightly so.  We had few players in their prime, and it caught up to us.  Going with the kids right away would have just left us being knocked out in the group stage.  At least that's what I think.  We'll see in the PanAm games.

 

Fully agree with this, and proud of how far they got. I think they took it as far as they could, and now it's our job as Canadians to support the next generation and keep improving our team and the economics of the sport in our country.

[gigi riva]

 We   do  have  some  young  talent   coming  on  board   but   I  think  we  will   be  in  Transition   for  a  few  years.

[mtlfan]

Too many players on the team that Herdman has no confidence in. Gayle, Nault ,Zurrer Moscato, Leon, Iacchelli,Fleming, Filigno played how many minutes?

 

England had more depth. That's what it takes to be a top team. When Tancredi gets this many minutes the opposition is always very happy. 

[tc-in-bc]

Post -mortem:

 

[ 1 ] Though no longer dominant, Christine Sinclair is still a very dangerous player and she still has another cycle in her. (There certainly are no other forwards pushing her off the team.) To me, Christine Sinclair can continue to be very productive for Canada but they have to find BETTER  forwards for her to play with and to take some of the scoring pressure off of her.

 

        Sidenote: The Portland Thorns  must be happy today as both Christine Sinclair and Jodie Taylor scored in today's game.

 

[ 2 ] The Pan-Am games are being used to find new younger  players to challenge and replace veterans on the team. Given that some key  CANWNT  veterans played so  poorly in this WWC it should be a simple matter to replace them. But a word of caution, much  of the Pan Am games team are the   2014 U-20 WWC team who also got eliminated in the quarter-finals of that tournament and their highest scorer was Janine Beckie with only two goals. To me, there's a possibility that players like Tancredi ,Sesselmann could still be part of the CANWNT going into the 2016 RIo Olympics.

 

      Pan-Am games schedule:

 

          Saturday, July 11, 2015                   U-23 CANWNT vs  Ecuador

          Wednesday,July 15, 2015               U-23 CANWNT vs  Costa Rica

          Sunday July 19, 2015                      U-23 CANWNT vs  Brazil

[The Ref]

My comment is not based on just today. It is based on all the matches. The mistake today was predictable. She simply isn't good enough.

Sesselmann is worst than a small girl playing her first game of soccer.  She does not learn from her mistakes or somebody is telling her those are not mistakes.  She was bad as a left defender and now putting her as a central fullback is criminal.  Doesn't their so called coach teach them anything? what a moron!  There are a few others beside Sesselmann who should be given their walking papers.  Canada needs a coach who does not start taking off the cobwebs of has-beens and over the hill players but looks for young upcoming players and teaches them the ropes.  Enough of grandstanding television speeches.  Pack your bags Herdman, you reached your Peter Principle long ago.

[Trillium]

Herdman needs to go, and yes Sinclair needs to retire, we will never get better as long as she is team Captain. We play a game predicated on getting the ball to her, ignoring other possibility on the pitch. The next coach should be a Canadian, who will go and find talented, technically skilled players, the give them a system of play that is not route one whack ball into the box.

Time to change is now, before Pan Ams and run up to Rio.

[rkomar]

Herdman needs to go, and yes Sinclair needs to retire, we will never get better as long as she is team Captain. We play a game predicated on getting the ball to her, ignoring other possibility on the pitch. The next coach should be a Canadian, who will go and find talented, technically skilled players, the give them a system of play that is not route one whack ball into the box.

Time to change is now, before Pan Ams and run up to Rio.

 

Have you not watched the U15, U17 and U20 tournaments?  Have you not seen how modern play is stressed?  What makes you think Herdman isn't doing that right now?

 

I'm not picking on you in particular.  I realize that people here feel hurt and are lashing out at whatever stands out.  But Herdman has been doing everything you ask.  Slashing and burning and starting from scratch isn't going to fix anything.

[tc-in-bc]

Re. Sinclair retiring.

 

If people knew about how little depth CANWNT has at the forward position in the NWSL , the NCAA, and in the youth ranks then they would not be in such a hurry to prematurely retire Christine Sinclair. CANWNT fans need to live in abject TERROR  at the prospect  of  our front three being Filigno-Ezurike-Leon. The program would REALLY struggle  to score goals and thus fail to qualify for tournaments.

 

Jonelle Filigno, 24 years old , Sky Blue FC                                        17 games played        1 goal   scored

Nkem Ezurike, 23 years old, Boston breakers                                    18 games played        3 goals scored

Adriana Leon, 22 years old, Boston Breakers/Chicago Red Stars     36 games played        3 goals  scored

 

Christine Sinclair needs to remain as a bridge player TO BUY TIME for some future forwards to emerge.

[Vic]

Thought we looked really gassed in the second half.  We had six players log 450 minutes, which is the majority of our team.  England had just two.  Everyone else was 360 downward.  People harp on about the draw but not having a week team in our pool to rest players was really noticeable.  

 

Boiled down to it's essence, what really cost us the game wasn't a player or a play or the tip of the iceberg we saw tonight.  It was the inability of the country to work together.  It's been a couple years of talk about turf wars but everyone missed the real one between the CSA, OSA, QSF, BCSA, etc.  It's 2015 and we have no high performance interprovincial women's league.

 

Earlier this year an American asked the long-time German youth coach Bernd Stoeber what was the biggest thing they were doing wrong.  He thought for a moment.  This is the guy the DFB went to for analysis on the WC in Brazil last year.  Everyone was waiting for a stunning piece of tactical and technical insight.  He said you need one organization making decisions and running the game.

 

What do these players have in common:  Matheson, Sesselmann, Lawrence, Buchanan, Bélanger, Filigno, Chapman, Tancredi?  Unlike the English players, they haven't played club soccer this year.  I'm too tired to track it down but I think we may only have two players in our starting 11 who played club soccer this year.

 

Without a high performance league, how can you select on-form players when they're not playing regularly for you to evaluate?  How can the cream rise to the top?

 

I sat at a CIS nationals a couple years ago and listened to John Herdman speak at the CIS final four at UVic.  Someone asked about the CIS and he said the NCAA was a better avenue.  Two of our best players are Desiree Scott and Josée Bélanger, both products of the CIS.  He didn't even walk two blocks to watch the final four.

 

I think we have a lot of great talent in this country.  I've seen 13-14 year-old girls all over the world and we're not wanting by any means.  The problem is the best aren't plucked by anyone.  There is no Liverpool Ladies, no Juvisy, no Linköpings, no Lillestrøm, no Bayern Frauenfußball, no Ajax Ladies.  All these countries have a network of professionals who scour for talent and develop it.  Not one NGO sport organization, but an entire competitive club system of great trainers.  And the net result is mid-age teenagers playing with the countries best women, not the best kids their age.

 

Instead our talented teenagers linger and play down to the lowest common age-group denominator by a paid amateur coach who fights tooth and nail to hold onto them to ensure the team keeps winning and pad their ego and pocketbook.

 

The next thing you know they're 18 and off to the NCAA to a fitness coach who is about as good at developing players and they marginalize them because the game is a pinball machine of unlimited substitutions.  And with an 8-week playing season in a 52-week year.  The Americans aren't turning out players anywhere near the European club system in terms of game savviness and skill.  Are they athletic?  Oh yeah.  In spades.  But the game is becoming a lot more than that and their system is not tuned to turn out modern players.

 

In the short term it will be interesting to see what happens in direction for the Olympic run.  In the medium to longer term, we have a very serious problem in player development that we've avoided for a long time that is in desperate need of attention.  And the first step is finding a way to work together.  Everyone at every level.  And if we can't do that we might as well sell the plot and close up shop.  Because continuing like we've been doing for decades is worse than that.

 

Complete confidence in Herdman.  And Sermanni, I really pray we can keep him.  To solve our problem these are the guys we need to give the keys to the car to.

[Trillium]

"He didn't even walk two blocks to see the final" laziness in the head coach and you have complete confidence in him Vic?

I agree with all you have said, except for your conclusion...Herdman has to go losing as we did, with the style of play and poor technical ability of too many of the players he selected is on him.

[Trillium]

"He didn't even walk two blocks to see the final" laziness in the head coach and you have complete confidence in him Vic?

I agree with all you have said, except for your conclusion...Herdman has to go losing as we did, with the style of play and poor technical ability of too many of the players he selected is on him.

[Vic]

Not sure from where but I had the distinct impression it was information he was fed.  He wasn't very Canadian at the time and we're all allowed room to grow.  Herdman and Sermanni are great women's football people and we're really lucky to have them.

 

One last bit about yesterday's game.  In the men's game when Chelsea camp out in their 18, it's very difficult for the male superstars of this world with far better skill, technique and power to do anything to change the result of a game.  Players who can seize an error in an instant and convert against someone like Petr Cech.  In the women's game when someone parks it, and does it well, it's a lot more difficult.

 

After the England goalkeeping change, we struggled to even get a shot on net.  There was Bélanger outside the box and possibly Leon on a foray into the box, I couldn't tell if that was a shot or on net.  But that was about it.

 

We could say that was on us, but I watched the exact same thing happen to a really strong Norway team that tied Germany.  They couldn't even touch the ball in the last 30 minutes.  I think they were dead from a sensational first half, I think we were because of minutes played in the tournament.  But that's giving England not an ounce of credit at all for a great job they do in bolting down the hatches.

 

This is England's roll like we had in 2012.  If you followed them in the tournament you could see it building.  It will massively change women's soccer in England and they know it and are playing with it and riding it.  I don't have a great impression of Mark Sampson but I don't begrudge them their moment.  They also have no second chance for success next year in the Olympics.  As UEFA uses the World Cup as the Olympic qualifier, England would have qualified as one of the three European spots but are ineligible because they now go into the Olympics as Team GB.

[Alberto7]

My two cents on the team as a whole throughout this tournament:

We were very lucky to have such a favourable draw. Apart from China, we should have easily beat New Zealand and Netherlands. Instead, we struggled. We only came alive for short periods during our round of 16 game. We ran out of luck against the English. We simply had not played well enough throughout and it showed against a better team. By the way, the hype was ridiculous throughout the tournament. Canada was never going to win the World Cup. We did as well as we could have hoped for.

 

Herdman: If he stays he has to play the youth and retire most of the veterans. Let the young players have a chance to shine. Put them in pressure situations like the Olympic qualifiers and give them a chance to play. If we lose, we lose but at least the youngsters get some much needed experience.

 

Tancredi: She simply has to hang them up. She had a horrible tournament and was 3 steps behind everyone.

 

Sinclair: Herdman can no longer build the team around her. She can play as a supporting player but let her feed the young strikers. I don't think we can retire her as the options are limited but she can no longer be the face of the team.

 

Now that Leblanc has retired, let Labbe and other young keepers have lots playing time. McLeod can have a role but she can no longer be number one. Overall she had an ok tournament but she never played against any top teams until yesterday.

 

In conclusion: Stop being loyal to veteran players and give the young ones a chance to play a lot of minutes. If we lose, chalk it up to a learning experience. They will get better over time. Time to rebuild.

 

A final point: Make sure we use the NWSL allocations for our up and coming players and drop the veterans.

[The Ref]

"He didn't even walk two blocks to see the final" laziness in the head coach and you have complete confidence in him Vic?

I agree with all you have said, except for your conclusion...Herdman has to go losing as we did, with the style of play and poor technical ability of too many of the players he selected is on him.

Yeah I agree.  Vic's conclusion ruins everything else he said. 

Herdman and Sermani have to go.  The team has no "style of play", like any of the others.  Herdman "style" is one of make things up as you go.  That will not do.

[The Ref]

A final point: Make sure we use the NWSL allocations for our up and coming players and drop the veterans.

One of the best comments I've read so far.

[Vic]

Actually I'd take a fair amount of the money spent on the national teams including the allocation money and get to work on a solution here to the lack of opportunities for women and the stagnation of talented players in their mid-teens.

[Soccerpro]

Thought we looked really gassed in the second half. We had six players log 450 minutes, which is the majority of our team. England had just two. Everyone else was 360 downward. People harp on about the draw but not having a week team in our pool to rest players was really noticeable.

Boiled down to it's essence, what really cost us the game wasn't a player or a play or the tip of the iceberg we saw tonight. It was the inability of the country to work together. It's been a couple years of talk about turf wars but everyone missed the real one between the CSA, OSA, QSF, BCSA, etc. It's 2015 and we have no high performance interprovincial women's league.

Earlier this year an American asked the long-time German youth coach Bernd Stoeber what was the biggest thing they were doing wrong. He thought for a moment. This is the guy the DFB went to for analysis on the WC in Brazil last year. Everyone was waiting for a stunning piece of tactical and technical insight. He said you need one organization making decisions and running the game.

What do these players have in common: Matheson, Sesselmann, Lawrence, Buchanan, Bélanger, Filigno, Chapman, Tancredi? Unlike the English players, they haven't played club soccer this year. I'm too tired to track it down but I think we may only have two players in our starting 11 who played club soccer this year.

Without a high performance league, how can you select on-form players when they're not playing regularly for you to evaluate? How can the cream rise to the top?

I sat at a CIS nationals a couple years ago and listened to John Herdman speak at the CIS final four at UVic. Someone asked about the CIS and he said the NCAA was a better avenue. Two of our best players are Desiree Scott and Josée Bélanger, both products of the CIS. He didn't even walk two blocks to watch the final four.

I think we have a lot of great talent in this country. I've seen 13-14 year-old girls all over the world and we're not wanting by any means. The problem is the best aren't plucked by anyone. There is no Liverpool Ladies, no Juvisy, no Linköpings, no Lillestrøm, no Bayern Frauenfußball, no Ajax Ladies. All these countries have a network of professionals who scour for talent and develop it. Not one NGO sport organization, but an entire competitive club system of great trainers. And the net result is mid-age teenagers playing with the countries best women, not the best kids their age.

Instead our talented teenagers linger and play down to the lowest common age-group denominator by a paid amateur coach who fights tooth and nail to hold onto them to ensure the team keeps winning and pad their ego and pocketbook.

The next thing you know they're 18 and off to the NCAA to a fitness coach who is about as good at developing players and they marginalize them because the game is a pinball machine of unlimited substitutions. And with an 8-week playing season in a 52-week year. The Americans aren't turning out players anywhere near the European club system in terms of game savviness and skill. Are they athletic? Oh yeah. In spades. But the game is becoming a lot more than that and their system is not tuned to turn out modern players.

In the short term it will be interesting to see what happens in direction for the Olympic run. In the medium to longer term, we have a very serious problem in player development that we've avoided for a long time that is in desperate need of attention. And the first step is finding a way to work together. Everyone at every level. And if we can't do that we might as well sell the plot and close up shop. Because continuing like we've been doing for decades is worse than that.

Complete confidence in Herdman. And Sermanni, I really pray we can keep him. To solve our problem these are the guys we need to give the keys to the car to.

Our women find themselves with the same dilemma our men have had for two decades, no league to develop players in. Our men are starting to make some progress with pro clubs and academies, but it's nowhere near comprehensive.

For the women, it's going to be even harder to form a league and get professional development given that everything is geared toward NCAA and the fact it's been hard to establish a pro league in North America.

Quite frankly, I'd be shocked if there is ever going to be a high level solution for our women. I think once other regions stop being sexist and fund womens soccer (Mexico, Latin America) combined with European countries who have pro womens leagues, we're going to see our program continue to drop in competitiveness.

I dont know where money for a Canadian league is going to come from. The CSA doesn't have the dough and a womens league would need backers willing to lose an incredible amount of money for the long haul.

[Trillium]

Since a woman's pro league in the western hemisphere is not likely under a club system, organize a National Teams League, with two divisions, players paid by National Associations revenue streams from ticket sales and TV sponsorships.

Top Division of eight in CONCACAF, and open entry second division, allowing country's in first division to run U23 reserves in second division, same in South America,14 home games, 14 away in first Division with pro/rel. Annual championship Hemisphere Cup.

Let's National teams run like club set ups, one city in Canada to be home for league games, for all other games, qualifiers etc move games around

[ray]

Canada played better than in previous World Cups.  However, their success in this tournament was greatly aided by playing weaker opponents.  In their first match against a higher ranked team in England, they lost despite looking the better side. 

 

Much more must be expected from the WNT for the next tournament in France because 2015 has shown that the rest of the world continues to improve quickly.

[Vic]

Quite frankly, I'd be shocked if there is ever going to be a high level solution for our women.

 

They said that in Scandinavia a long time ago.  Countries like Sweden and Norway have had them for decades.  They did it through sponsorship, a small tax on registrations, federation support, and a lot of volunteers.  They didn't start by paying players thousands of dollars. They started by taking women seriously.  Cup half-empty people say it's geography.  The Quebec/Windsor corridor is smaller than most Scandinavian countries and has as many people as all of them put together.  And we've been unable to make an ounce of progress even there.  Geography is a problem, but that's not the reason we have no opportunities for women to continue to play the game at an elite level and with respect.

[Soccerpro]

They said that in Scandinavia a long time ago.  Countries like Sweden and Norway have had them for decades.  They did it through sponsorship, a small tax on registrations, federation support, and a lot of volunteers.  They didn't start by paying players thousands of dollars. They started by taking women seriously.  Cup half-empty people say it's geography.  The Quebec/Windsor corridor is smaller than most Scandinavian countries and has as many people as all of them put together.  And we've been unable to make an ounce of progress even there.  Geography is a problem, but that's not the reason we have no opportunities for women to continue to play the game at an elite level and with respect.

I agree that Scandinavia did it. However, the fact we haven't even been able to organize a mens league shows the differences in challenges when it comes to soccer in this country vs other regions in the world.

[ytrium]

Bring back Carolina Morace

[Keegan]

Sesselmann was on the take 100%.  

[The Ref]

Sesselmann was on the take 100%.  

She is also on the Houston Dash roster.