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Liam Fraser

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Vanney likes Delgado because he does the work of two players, and (most of the time) quickly moves the ball to a better player. He's essentially a more mobile Piette.

He and Fraser, while both being central midfielders, are different players.

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i think its easier than that.  He saw something in Delgado as a teenager, tried to nuture him and is personally invested in his success. He scouted him for US youth camps, then brought him to every coaching job he has had since then.  Its just weird...especially when he tried very hard to replicate it with Spencer and also has a relative on his team.  

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I don't mind Delgado.  I used to dislike him before but also I think he gets a lot of added hate on here because he is an american and taking the role of what we all consider a promising Canadian talent.  I would love to see Fraser take his role but Fraser is much more like Bradley than Delgado though.

However, with all that being said, I can never forgive him for his miss in extra time vs Chivas that would have won the CONCACAF Champions League for Toronto.  Instead it went to a shootout and we all know how those end with Toronto.

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I'm not Delgado's biggest fan at times, but yesterday I would cut him some slack. He did not look like he had the legs for go a whole half. He looked done in the first imo. He was not high pressing like he normally would and showed lack of urgency. The lack of rest could've played a part here.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

i think its easier than that.  He saw something in Delgado as a teenager, tried to nuture him and is personally invested in his success. He scouted him for US youth camps, then brought him to every coaching job he has had since then.  Its just weird...especially when he tried very hard to replicate it with Spencer and also has a relative on his team.  

I think you are painting about 80% of the picture here. The last 20% you leave out is that Delgado and Vanney clearly have chemistry, which is no surprised given their long history. We talk about players developing chemistry with each other but often overlook the chemistry between player and coach. 

And when you look at it like that, perhaps that makes it less "weird"?

DeLeon is another example. They have a history and with that history comes chemistry. No surprise then that Nick has done so well with Toronto, arguably playing some of the best soccer of his career. He scored 10 goals across 39 games in all competitions last season, both career highs.

Edited by Obinna

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29 minutes ago, Colliedor said:

I'm not Delgado's biggest fan at times, but yesterday I would cut him some slack. He did not look like he had the legs for go a whole half. He looked done in the first imo. He was not high pressing like he normally would and showed lack of urgency. The lack of rest could've played a part here.

Then Vanney should have started Fraser, Deleon, Nelsen, Shaff, Okello, Gallardo etc, juggled his line up a bit and slot in whichever one he wanted.  Stubborn on his part not to rotate or trust any other player than his core 14.  Except he throws Dorsey on for a run and not Okello or Nelsen.  Ughhh.   

Obinna, Who does Deleon have history with??  Vanney was long gone at DC when Deleon started there. Deleon is a good player, he can REALLY, play defensivly and on offensive and brings a scoring threat.   Not just "I run around alot and play tidy quick back passes".  You wont hear me complain about Deleon.

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Then Vanney should have started Fraser, Deleon, Nelsen, Shaff, Okello, Gallardo etc, juggled his line up a bit and slot in whichever one he wanted.  Stubborn on his part not to rotate or trust any other player than his core 14.  Except he throws Dorsey on for a run and not Okello or Nelsen.  Ughhh.   

Obinna, Who does Deleon have history with??  Vanney was long gone at DC when Deleon started there. Deleon is a good player, he can REALLY, play defensivly and on offensive and brings a scoring threat.   Not just "I run around alot and play tidy quick back passes".  You wont hear me complain about Deleon.

 

The connection goes back to Arizona. Both men come from the area and crossed paths, although I can't recall exactly what the history is, unfortunately. It was discussed when Nick first signed with Toronto.

Edited by Obinna

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7 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

I really wish Fraser would convert to CB. We are spoiled for options in central mid. Fraser has all the attributes needed to be an excellent CB. 

Me too , but then where would Zavaleta play?

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3 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

I really wish Fraser would convert to CB. We are spoiled for options in central mid. Fraser has all the attributes needed to be an excellent CB. 

All the attributes except pace.

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I really think he should leave TFC. He's 22 and the Cap is killing his career. DM / CM is one of the most influential positions and it makes sense for the club to put a DP there. He'll never get meaningful minutes without a serious injury or suspension of Bradley. Not saying the club is treating him unfairly or whatever, but at 22 he should be playing week-in week-out and growing into that leadership position. 

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9 minutes ago, shamrock said:

I really think he should leave TFC. He's 22 and the Cap is killing his career. DM / CM is one of the most influential positions and it makes sense for the club to put a DP there. He'll never get meaningful minutes without a serious injury or suspension of Bradley. Not saying the club is treating him unfairly or whatever, but at 22 he should be playing week-in week-out and growing into that leadership position. 

Agreed.  Either in the MLS or in Europe at a level where he can get meaningful minutes 

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4 hours ago, An Observer said:

Agreed.  Either in the MLS or in Europe at a level where he can get meaningful minutes 

Also for TFC, if he'd get a loan deal or something they could benefit as well. This situation isn't good for anybody. Surely some lower half Danish topflight team could use a player with his skillset. 

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We will see Liam play more minutes as this season progresses TFC will have plenty of games to play  and bradleym cannot play every minute so There is a chamnce I hope

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23 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

We will see Liam play more minutes as this season progresses TFC will have plenty of games to play  and bradleym cannot play every minute so There is a chamnce I hope

But Bradley wants to play every minute and Vanney is not going to sub him out

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30 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

We will see Liam play more minutes as this season progresses TFC will have plenty of games to play  and bradleym cannot play every minute so There is a chamnce I hope

We all said the same thing last year.

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Posted (edited)

I really like Fraser, and I think it is in his best interest to look for a way out of Toronto, but I don't think he did anything particularly noteworthy last night. He was his typical self, clean and dependable on the ball, showing off his range of passing, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know we are frustrated he is not a starter on this team, but do we need to over-inflate his performances now to prove a point?

Toronto are one of the best teams in Major League Soccer. Good players are going to be left on the bench. It is what it is. There is no shame in it. Yes, there is a risk of it stunting his development, of course, but he is playing well so no evidence of that yet, fortunately. 

Edited by Obinna

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