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2 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

The difference between TFC and the English Academies is that TFC has little to no competition for young talent in Ontario.  I think if there was one academy for all of London, one would hope that it would be a better than 1 in 200 ratio.

This was another point I forgot to mention.

Toronto is a hotbed for talent, and it has shown consistently in the academies performance in  MLS youth competition’s. 

So the reality that someone is coming up next is always there.

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Probably one of the shittest takes I've read on this board. And that's saying something. 😭

I'm not saying he is better than Bradley, but the cost of Bradley certainly isn't justified when Fraser can come in his place.

I really don't understand the negative spin a few posters on here have on him, why all the hate for a Canadian kid? I must be watching a different game sometimes, once again I watched him very closely

If I am Liam Fraser I would not want to leave TFC right now. I want to get paid in line with a player that will play regularity off of the bench (200K) and would be hoping to get more playing time just like Osorio and Delgado did over time. If TFC made the financial commitment, then I would trust I would get playing time moving forward. If they wanted to pay me only 100K I'd look for another team.

Any move to a similar quality team would leave him further down the depth chart than he is now.

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22 hours ago, Ruffian said:

If I am Liam Fraser I would not want to leave TFC right now. I want to get paid in line with a player that will play regularity off of the bench (200K) and would be hoping to get more playing time just like Osorio and Delgado did over time. If TFC made the financial commitment, then I would trust I would get playing time moving forward. If they wanted to pay me only 100K I'd look for another team.

Any move to a similar quality team would leave him further down the depth chart than he is now.

I agree with this take.  A lot of blame on TFC & Vanney.  I know no one wants to hear this but maybe Fraser is not as good as we all think despite his fantastic game vs USA a year ago.

A lot of hate on Toronto for players leaving the academy and club and going on to better things.  It's going to happen occasionally.

But here is a look at the Canadian TFC players who have left the club for greener pastures in recent years (We can assume that for the most part all the MLS teams listed below are of lower quality than Toronto):

Ashtone Morgan is yet to play a minute for a much lesser quality Real Salt Lake.

Jordan Hamilton is yet to play a minute for a lesser quality Columbus Crew.

Chapman went from 522 minutes, 2 G 2 A with Toronto last year to a much lesser quality Inter Miami playing 222 minutes currently.

Raheem Edwards has yet to solidify a spot since leaving Toronto, playing for 3 teams in a 4 years.  He went from 1 G and 6 A in 1058 minutes for TFC as a teenager to only 4 G & 5 A in the next 4 seasons combined and never reaching the 1,000 minute mark.

Although not from the academy and a brief stint in Lithuania, Tosaint Ricketts has less minutes than Liam Fraser with a much lesser quality Vancouver squad this season.

Again, not an academy product and obviously off field issues but Will Johnson isn't even playing this season.

 

I'm not saying Fraser is in the same category.  I rate him higher than those players above and I think it's clear he is not in Vanney's long term plans so I think he should start looking elsewhere.  But this above just shows that leaving Toronto FC doesn't always work out for the better. 

This doesn't mean I want to see Vanney play players like Endoh & Mullins over over young Canadians because I don't want that at all.  If anything this is Vanney's biggest problem.  I firmly believe that young Canadians should be getting more minutes for players like Mullins, Endoh etc.  I just think the Toronto hate on here is always too harsh, but I'm sure people will still find a way to blame Toronto FC for the lack of success of the Canadian players after leaving the club.

Edited by Corazon
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^^ No need to rush things along if they're going well.  Every positive performance has ever increasing value.

Speaking of which, being paid fair market value.  A-gin no need to rush things.  It isn't hard to get the word to those who need to hear it (from a credible source of course) about future expectations without being a dick about it.  Certainly tell you everything you need to know about how you're viewed by your employer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Priso style is very similar to that of Kaye's, always looking to move the ball forward, and looks VERY comfortable with the ball. He is also only 18 and already has the physical tools needed to cover ground and wrestle his way out a challenge, yet is still very mobile/agile. Fraser just got buried further down the depth chart.

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Priso did play quite well tonight. Not a stand out, but a solid match and didn’t look like an 18 year old making his first start.

Fraser did get on late to help lock down the win. Made a couple of defensive interventions.

Edited by Kent
Priso had been “corrected” to prison.
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5 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Fraser's style is too similar to Bradley, if given the choice, Vanney will likely prefer to start Priso alongside Bradley (when healthy, Bradley will always start), their differences in style are more pronounced.

And that’s a problem....I personally think Liam lacks mobility, and that’s fine when you’re an experienced guy like Bradley who can read/anticipate the game better. But even still Bradley’s game is regressing, where his timing is off and he’s gets caught on the ball, or miss times his tackles. Liam shouldn’t be that - which he currently is right now. He’s in the mold of the old CDM , where the modern day is box to box. (Kaye, Eustaquio). 

 

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Can't remember if I posted it here already so I maybe I'm repeating myself. But at the start of the season when TFC changed to this formation, I already said that this was the end of Fraser.

This pivot role imo doesn't suit him too well ( Neither for Bradley imo ). This works well for box to box players, especially ones that are good at defending. Priso showed that. He's not really the most offensive player when watching him with TFC2, but he is more capable of going up front than Bradley and Fraser. It's also why I really want to see how Okello does in this role since it matches his style more than Fraser, assuming he improved his work effort.

Really think it's best for him to leave. TFC academy is kinda stacked in that position.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Colliedor said:

Can't remember if I posted it here already so I maybe I'm repeating myself. But at the start of the season when TFC changed to this formation, I already said that this was the end of Fraser.

This pivot role imo doesn't suit him too well ( Neither for Bradley imo ). This works well for box to box players, especially ones that are good at defending. Priso showed that. He's not really the most offensive player when watching him with TFC2, but he is more capable of going up front than Bradley and Fraser. It's also why I really want to see how Okello does in this role since it matches his style more than Fraser, assuming he improved his work effort.

Really think it's best for him to leave. TFC academy is kinda stacked in that position.

 

 

TFC looked much better when Bradley was out and the formation changed, usually with Delgado and Osorio in the middle, I personally think Fraser can play the DM role in front of the back 4 as Bradley does and would probably be better at it at this point, that's not going to happen with Bradley healthy again and a guaranteed starter! I think Fraser is a very useful player in the right situation, TFC does not provide that so he needs to get out of there ASAP or his career will stall!

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I was really hoping that Fraser could have turned out to be Cheyrou-lite but his footspeed isn't even at Cheyrou's level and in today's game, unless you've got some exceptional skill set elsewhere, it's tough.

Edited by Snowcrash
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20 minutes ago, gator said:

TFC looked much better when Bradley was out and the formation changed, usually with Delgado and Osorio in the middle, I personally think Fraser can play the DM role in front of the back 4 as Bradley does and would probably be better at it at this point, that's not going to happen with Bradley healthy again and a guaranteed starter! I think Fraser is a very useful player in the right situation, TFC does not provide that so he needs to get out of there ASAP or his career will stall!

Surprisingly Osorio was the one who looked so good in the DM role. He was connecting from deeper with Poz and Piatti, and surprisingly Delgado in front , while playing his position to perfection.

I would love to see TFC give those Delgado minutes to Fraser, as like you said Bradley when healthy is always a lock. But tactically it doesn’t make sense to have the same player, reason why Ralphy will be the better option.

Also, I’m interested to see how Liam would do  in a CB role. His game could benefit from it like Eric Dier.

Edited by Shway
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52 minutes ago, Shway said:

Surprisingly Osorio was the one who looked so good in the DM role. He was connecting from deeper with Poz and Piatti, and surprisingly Delgado in front , while playing his position to perfection.

I would love to see TFC give those Delgado minutes to Fraser, as like you said Bradley when healthy is always a lock. But tactically it doesn’t make sense to have the same player, reason why Ralphy will be the better option.

Also, I’m interested to see how Liam would do  in a CB role. His game could benefit from it like Eric Dier.

Converting to a CB with decent vision and passing skills might be worth a try.  He can't be any worse than someone like Zaveletta whose passes are on the level of Joe Bendik goal kicks for accuracy.

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9 hours ago, Snowcrash said:

Converting to a CB with decent vision and passing skills might be worth a try.  He can't be any worse than someone like Zaveletta whose passes are on the level of Joe Bendik goal kicks for accuracy.

I am more worried about his foot speed as CB as once teams realise that, they will just play balls over the top and allow their speedy forwards to run onto them in behind.  Remember how Jamaica took us a part two Gold Cups ago with that strategy.

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So he’s obviously not rated by Vanney, the question becomes what does he do now ? Priso is clearly ahead of him, even with some changes this off-season Vanney apparently believes there’s even more talent in the Academy that hasn’t been signed yet, Marshall Rutty should be a starter or close to it next season and Jayden Nelson will start, I guess a trade is coming for Fraser ?

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