Liam Fraser

[CanadaFan123]

19 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Yeah... he went for a CCL and almost won the same thing... SKC tried the same recently, except they didn't make it near as far as TFC and had their regular season suffer as a result too. I understand you don't like Vanney because he won't play your favorite Canadian player(s), but try to give credit where credit is due (last I checked none of the other big spending MLS teams have accomplished the same TFC has)

When did I reference his lack of playing Canadian players as a reason? That’s your assumption. 
 

(for the record none of my favourite Canadian players play for TFC).

Edited October 15, 2020 by CanadaFan123

[LeoH037]

Vanney is not getting sacked just because he indirectly hurts the feelings of a bunch of folk on this site. As long as TFC keeps winning, and he keeps delivering MLS Cup appearances, his job will be quite safe.

[LeoH037]

2 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

When did I reference his lack of playing Canadian players as a reason? That’s your assumption.

bahahaha

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, LeoH037 said:

Vanney is not getting sacked just because he indirectly hurts the feelings of a bunch of folk on this site. As long as TFC keeps winning, and he keeps delivering MLS Cup appearances, his job will be quite safe.

No argument there. I just personally don’t think he’s a great manager. No need to jump to baseless assumptions.. I’m not even calling for his sacking. 

[LeoH037]

Maybe not, but trying to argue that him getting an extension is a bad thing is ludicrous when you consider TFC has only lost 2 games in the last 25. Personally I live in Toronto and I am a TFC supporter first, if they happen to give a local kid a chance that's just icing on the cake, but I recall the days when this team was awful and I rather it not ever go back to that again. I accepted a long time ago that TFC developing Canadian players is a byproduct of them operating, but not the main goal, which is to keep the average Toronto sports fan happy and generate $$$.

Edited October 15, 2020 by LeoH037

[Bdog]

Not gonna type all of my opinions up on Vanney right now but even his supporters have to agree he's clueless when it comes to making subs. Team is gassed? He'll leave everyone out there. One goal lead? Sub on a CB and invite pressure which leads to goals. Big lead? Sub on Mullins (who will sadly get more time now because he scored his first goal in a year) instead of a young player. Losing? Brings his CB nephew on.

[Bison44]

And about 10million less in salary.  Like if you combined Portland and the Sounders, TFC still outspent them.  

[SthMelbRed]

5 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Maybe not, but trying to argue that him getting an extension is a bad thing is ludicrous when you consider TFC has only lost 2 games in the last 25. Personally I live in Toronto and I am a TFC supporter first, if they happen to give a local kid a chance that's just icing on the cake, but I recall the days when this team was awful and I rather it not ever go back to that again. I accepted a long time ago that TFC developing Canadian players is a byproduct of them operating, but not the main goal, which is to keep the average Toronto sports fan happy and generate $$$.

You are aware that Vanney, a manager that clearly doesn't trust Liam Fraser (the player in whose thread we're currently postng), getting an extension can both be a good/neutral thing for the club, yet be a bad thing for the player, personally, right? It's not that hard a concept, is it?

[CanadaFan123]

4 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Maybe not, but trying to argue that him getting an extension is a bad thing is ludicrous when you consider TFC has only lost 2 games in the last 25. Personally I live in Toronto and I am a TFC supporter first, if they happen to give a local kid a chance that's just icing on the cake, but I recall the days when this team was awful and I rather it not ever go back to that again. I accepted a long time ago that TFC developing Canadian players is a byproduct of them operating, but not the main goal, which is to keep the average Toronto sports fan happy and generate $$$.

Not sure who argued that? A poster said it was potentially bad for Fraser. Can’t say they’re wrong can you?

He’s not the worst manager in MLS but also far from the best in this league. Just very average. 
 

TFC is going to be competitive with Vanney or not. The success is correlated to the spending ... not Vanney as manager. Put Vanney in Colorado and it’s a different story. There are some real quality managers in this league that work wonders, he isn’t one IMO.

[Kent]

Well this thread went off the rails based on a misunderstanding. I was wondering why this thread was “hot” even though Fraser didn’t play tonight.

[N1ckbr0wn]

Saw TOs original post and knew the first person to chime in was going to be LeoH. I understand you’re a TFC fan but sometimes you got to take the TFC coloured glasses off. This is a forum where we discuss CANADIAN players first, and a situation where we’re discussing what is best for FRASER. TFC bias on every post I see of his is starting to get old. 

[Shway]

Yea all in all, Liams gotta go asap. If he’s got UK/European passport his agent needs to explore his options. Reality is Delgado is shit, I don’t rate him, to quote my brother “he’s good at breaking up plays from his own mistakes”.

But the reality is he will continue to get opportunities from his billet dad (I’m still waiting to see the money he’s on, considering he wanted close to Osorio money). With that, the writings is on the wall and the recent signing of Ralph Priso who is also promising - it’s time to go Liam. And please, please don’t look to stay in MLS.

[LeoH037]

4 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

You are aware that Vanney, a manager that clearly doesn't trust Liam Fraser (the player in whose thread we're currently postng), getting an extension can both be a good/neutral thing for the club, yet be a bad thing for the player, personally, right? It's not that hard a concept, is it?

Sure... if you value Fraser's development over the club's fortunate... I personally don't. Fraser is quickly becoming another Chapman, and quite frankly I don't think he is better than Okello.

[LeoH037]

3 hours ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

Saw TOs original post and knew the first person to chime in was going to be LeoH. I understand you’re a TFC fan but sometimes you got to take the TFC coloured glasses off. This is a forum where we discuss CANADIAN players first, and a situation where we’re discussing what is best for FRASER. TFC bias on every post I see of his is starting to get old. 

I keep my TFC biases to myself for the most part, but when I see absurd suggestion regarding the well being of my hometown team, yeah, I'll have a thing or two to say. And no, TFC would not be as competitive without Vanney, seeing as they have always been a relatively high spending club and never accomplished much for it. Tne anti Vanney bias on this site is dumbfounding and unfair really, I understand why folk here dislike him, but the its absurd how much everyone here tries to downplay anything and everything the man has done for the team just cause they resent him not playing their favorite Canadian player. TFC is more important than any single player, period. No TFC, no MLS in Canada.

[SthMelbRed]

30 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Sure... if you value Fraser's development over the club's fortunate... I personally don't. Fraser is quickly becoming another Chapman, and quite frankly I don't think he is better than Okello.

So, basically, you're either too stupid to see the distinction or you're too arrogant to separate your negative perception of an individual player from any concept of logical thought. Then again, it might just be both. 🙄

[LeoH037]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

So, basically, you're either too stupid to see the distinction or you're too arrogant to separate your negative perception of an individual player from any concept of logical thought. Then again, it might just be both. 🙄

The irony

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

The irony

Person A says something.

Person B misrepresents what Person A said in order to rant on his existing agenda against Player X.

People C, D, and E attempt to make Person B see that nobody's fooled by his agenda-based posting.

Person B ignores the obvious to reiterate his previous misrepresentations and further his agenda against Player X in order to defend Manager Y, illustrating that he's got the reading comprehension skills of an amoeba.

Everybody rolls their eyes at Person B, thinking about how much of an idiot he is.

Life goes on with Person B continuing to embarrass himself, safe in his delusion that he's somehow smarter and more practical than everybody else.

This has been an allegory.

[costarg]

10 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

Meh, Vanney getting a contract extension in not exactly a bad thing. 3 MLS Cup appearances in the last 4 years, a CCL final, and has TFC firing on all cylinders right now... okay..

I would say..... "3 MLS Cup appearances in the last 4 years, a CCL final, and  TFC firing on all cylinders right now" DESPITE having Vanney as a coach.  This team looks awesome.

[RS]

11 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

TFC is going to be competitive with Vanney or not. The success is correlated to the spending ... not Vanney as manager.

TFC has been one of the league's biggest spenders since 2007, but success only came during the Vanney years.

Maybe they'd do even better under someone else, no one knows for sure. But they've absolutely shown that they can do much worse without Vanney at the helm.

[Ansem]

Like TFC or not - they are wasting Fraser. He needs to get away from that team via loan or transfer.

[gator]

I also thought it was ridiculous that Fraser didn't come in for Delgado whose poor defending contributed to the "wonder goal" Osorio and Delgado were so obviously gassed, Fraser would have been the obvious sub, time for him to get out of TFC ASAP!

[Bison44]

Its good for the team and its good for him.  Its weird to me that TFC dont seem to care about it.  Other clubs are proud to promote academy kids, brag them up, throw them out at 17 or 18.  And if they have success, the gm claps himself on the back, lights a cigar and moves them on to europe for a tasty transfer.  I guess the TFC/Toronto fans fork over so much of their hard earned cash that the front office has never had to worry about not having an extra 10-15million a season to double everyone elses payroll.  Or worry about running an academy that they never seem to use much.  

They could have moved Okello, Peruzza, and I'm sure if they put Nelsen in the shop window a bit more they could sell him on as well.  Whats the sense of holding on to them until the prospect "best before date" has passed.  if your business model is built on unlimited cash (from GTA pockets) and buying established foreign stars and MLS vets why keep a bursting full stable of kids?  Thin the herd out a bit,  Its annoying that someone like Dunn, Perruza (Pantemis with impact) needs to go somewhere else to get playing time and then they realize they are useful players.  

And the idea that success and playing CDN are somehow not inclusive needs to just go away.  When TFC has had its most success there have been CDN players integral to that success.  SO no hard feelings eh? For whatever reason Vanney doesnt rate him, he has to ride Bradley until he breaks down, but time to move on, go somehwere and get more playing time and see if he can pull it together and become a good pro.  And I dont feel the least bit bad about cheer leading for a CDN player in his own dedicated thread on a CDN website for CDN fans at the expense of some butthole hurt feelings about his club coach.  Brag Vanney up on some UCLA alumni message board, or at the very least start a thread for him and his fans.   

[Obinna]

Time and again Fraser goes unused, but I am not convinced his career is in danger at the moment. I am still not hitting the panic button.

Look on the bright side: Fraser is playing for the best team in MLS. He is likely to add at least 1 trophy to his resume, which includes 64 USL games, 28 MLS games, and 4 Canada caps. With Olympic qualifying and the Gold Cup around the corner, he will add to his international experience. He is just getting started.

We need to be a little patient and look at the positives.

Perhaps it is a good sign he is not on loan. You do not send players away that you need. TFC does not need Okello at the moment. That is why he is gone.

We may not like how sparingly Liam is used, but he is hardly in a bad situation for the time being. Lets see how things unfold.

[LeoH037]

6 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Person A says something.

Person B misrepresents what Person A said in order to rant on his existing agenda against Player X.

People C, D, and E attempt to make Person B see that nobody's fooled by his agenda-based posting.

Person B ignores the obvious to reiterate his previous misrepresentations and further his agenda against Player X in order to defend Manager Y, illustrating that he's got the reading comprehension skills of an amoeba.

Everybody rolls their eyes at Person B, thinking about how much of an idiot he is.

Life goes on with Person B continuing to embarrass himself, safe in his delusion that he's somehow smarter and more practical than everybody else.

This has been an allegory.

Maybe it would make a half decent Hilbert proof if the premises were based on axioms. I highlighted the relevant tenets for you to discern where your logic (or lack of) goes bad. And since you seem  more intent on personally attacking me, is your last name Fraser or something? Did it hurt your feelings that I don't seem to to think of said player as you?

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

Maybe it would make a half decent Hilbert proof if the premises were based on axioms. I highlighted the relevant tenets for you to discern where your logic (or lack of) goes bad. And since you seem  more intent on personally attacking me, is your last name Fraser or something? Did it hurt your feelings that I don't seem to to think of said player as you?

It hurts my feelings that you can't distinguish between these two statements.

A - Vanney has had his contract extended by TFC. Fraser should move on to find the playing time it appears won't be coming under Vanney at TFC.

and

B - TFC should never have extended Vanney's contract because he won't play Fraser and that makes me angry.

 

Many people have been saying A in the last page or two of this thread. Nobody, outside of your delusions, has been saying B. Yet, you continue to argue against A by insisting that it means B, even after several have pointed out your error. Therefore, I am left with no other conclusion than you are either very stupid and can't understand the difference or you're intentionally presenting as a disingenuous dickhead in order to attack Liam Fraser and those who wish to see him presented with fair opportunity to succeed. It can be one of those things, or maybe a bit of both. But, it can't be neither.