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Liam Fraser

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I think Liam might have better-than-MLS potential, but we'll never know if he does and he'll never reach it if he does if he can't regular minutes in MLS before the age of 25.

Bradley, Osorio, and now Delgado all have multiple years left. DeLeon and Endoh crowd the middle further, and Okello has also come up and is looking for minutes. Piatti just came in and Pozuelo will be around for a couple years at least. None of the non-DP guys are moving up to take their places anyway. There will also be Akinola and Altidore potentially moving a midfielder out of the TFC starting lineup.

Fraser is evidently better than being on the bench on even a very good MLS team. He has to bail and make the most of his chances elsewhere. I think he will outshine a lot of Vanney's regulars in the proper role.

I wonder how he'd do converted to centre back? Because that would help TFC, Canada, and maybe Liam, but it's never gonna happen.

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29 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

I think Liam might have better-than-MLS potential, but we'll never know if he does and he'll never reach it if he does if he can't regular minutes in MLS before the age of 25.

Bradley, Osorio, and now Delgado all have multiple years left. DeLeon and Endoh crowd the middle further, and Okello has also come up and is looking for minutes. Piatti just came in and Pozuelo will be around for a couple years at least. None of the non-DP guys are moving up to take their places anyway. There will also be Akinola and Altidore potentially moving a midfielder out of the TFC starting lineup.

Fraser is evidently better than being on the bench on even a very good MLS team. He has to bail and make the most of his chances elsewhere. I think he will outshine a lot of Vanney's regulars in the proper role.

I wonder how he'd do converted to centre back? Because that would help TFC, Canada, and maybe Liam, but it's never gonna happen.

Personally I don't think he has the characteristics to switch to CB. I do agree with you that if he doesn't get more game time he should move. He needs minutes if he's going to improve. 

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I hope this bites Vanney on the ass again.  Keep playing Bradley 90min even when your up 2 or 3 goals.  Lets see him run around next game with his tongue hanging out and the commentators saying Wow, the team just wasnt up for it tonight, when its obvious he should have been rested.  Very stubborn rigid thinking, up and comers on the bench and you just wont rotate the 33 year old veteran.  

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6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I really like Fraser, and I think it is in his best interest to look for a way out of Toronto, but I don't think he did anything particularly noteworthy last night. He was his typical self, clean and dependable on the ball, showing off his range of passing, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

I know we are frustrated he is not a starter on this team, but do we need to over-inflate his performances now to prove a point?

Toronto are one of the best teams in Major League Soccer. Good players are going to be left on the bench. It is what it is. There is no shame in it. Yes, there is a risk of it stunting his development, of course, but he is playing well so no evidence of that yet, fortunately. 

With the score 3-0 when Fraser subbed in, he did what you would want from a defensive mid. Keep it simple and kill off the game.  If he got consistent 20 mins of sub playing time given TFC's quality, that would probably be ok for now to aid in his development.  Its really the incremental improvement  of his play that is crucial right now.  Unfortunately we have seen this script before...Hamilton, Chapman etc. I really hope that TFC are reasonable with  a transfer/loan. It could impact future signings of their academy players.

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4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I hope this bites Vanney on the ass again.  Keep playing Bradley 90min even when your up 2 or 3 goals.  Lets see him run around next game with his tongue hanging out and the commentators saying Wow, the team just wasnt up for it tonight, when its obvious he should have been rested.  Very stubborn rigid thinking, up and comers on the bench and you just wont rotate the 33 year old veteran.  

Totally agree - as a MLSE entity and their Sports Science Department you would think TFC and Vanney would be very aware and call it "load management" ala Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors conservation of the superstar's minutes through out their Championship regular season.  The amount of minutes they play Bradley is ridiculous.  Vanney is not in charge - Bradley is.  Fraser needs to play or get out!

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31 minutes ago, A Different Perspective said:

Vanney is not in charge - Bradley is.  Fraser needs to play or get out!

Even at the highest levels of pro sports (maybe with the exception of Belichick in the NFL), coaches/managers tend to hold on to veteran players too long.  Bradley had a good first game back at the MLS tournament and since then has been poor.  Unfortunately, the reality is no matter how many mistakes he makes, or poor performances, he will not lose his starting place.  Combined with Vanney’s infatuation with Delgado (who’s technical ability is miles behind Fraser) the only option for him at this point is to get out ASAP.  

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7 hours ago, Lansdude said:

Bradley, Osorio, and now Delgado all have multiple years left...

With another impending fire sale happening in Vancouver and Cavallini the remaining building block, I would not at all be surprised to see the Caps try to make a play for him.  He wouldn't be "The Man" in the creative attacking role, but he would be a good complement for an attacking mid DP as well as his childhood buddy. 

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Vancouver doesn’t even no how to use Cavallini so I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants out 

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

With another impending fire sale happening in Vancouver and Cavallini the remaining building block, I would not at all be surprised to see the Caps try to make a play for him.  He wouldn't be "The Man" in the creative attacking role, but he would be a good complement for an attacking mid DP as well as his childhood buddy. 

 

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1 hour ago, jordan said:

Vancouver doesn’t even no how to use Cavallini so I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants out 

 

The Caps are a reactive upper management/ownership, not a proactive one with a genuine vision to which they adhere.  They probably saw the TSN pregame feature and said, "Hey, we need to get these two back together."  That's how they've operated in the MLS era, at least, off the field and on it.  This would be the kind of move they'd make, considering they have made bringing in experienced Cancon from elsewhere a priority.

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He and Bradley are the same type of midfielder.  Last year, this fixture in Vancouver featured Fraser and Delgado and they were a good pairing that day and fair better than the Caps midfield.

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I'll echo what others are saying in that I don't know what match some of you guys were watching. As pointed out in TSN's half-time analysis, Fraser was helping TFC to dominate the game in the first half, keeping his team in possession and playing some clever balls forward and helping to lead the press. Dos Santos saw this and so for the 2nd half instructed Teibert to go right after Fraser so that he didn't have time on the ball. So Vanney then made his adjustment by bringing on a different kind of player who would cover more ground up the field rather than being a cross between a third CB/right back. TFC didn't really play well after Fraser left the field (not helped by losing a lot on the left side when Laryea was taken off). One gaffe (where frankly, he shouldn't have been the last player back to begin with - at least one of the two CB's should have been backing him up) hardly negates all that.

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

I'll echo what others are saying in that I don't know what match some of you guys were watching. As pointed out in TSN's half-time analysis, Fraser was helping TFC to dominate the game in the first half, keeping his team in possession and playing some clever balls forward and helping to lead the press. Dos Santos saw this and so for the 2nd half instructed Teibert to go right after Fraser so that he didn't have time on the ball. So Vanney then made his adjustment by bringing on a different kind of player who would cover more ground up the field rather than being a cross between a third CB/right back. TFC didn't really play well after Fraser left the field (not helped by losing a lot on the left side when Laryea was taken off). One gaffe (where frankly, he shouldn't have been the last player back to begin with - at least one of the two CB's should have been backing him up) hardly negates all that.

Yeah, I thought Fraser looked solid tonight, and I was disappointed that he got yanked. Kid needs to play. If that means moving from TFC, then let's make it happen.  I know a team way out west--we call it the Lower Lotusland--that could use a strong young talent like him.

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I am with the last two posts. He had some great passes and break up of play in the first half. He also had a couple of moments, the fouls and Adnan beating him in the second half but in general was fine imo. Bringing Bradley off would have made more sense who was at best on par with Fraser if not worse. 

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On 8/19/2020 at 10:40 PM, BearcatSA said:

The Caps are a reactive upper management/ownership, not a proactive one with a genuine vision to which they adhere.  They probably saw the TSN pregame feature and said, "Hey, we need to get these two back together."  That's how they've operated in the MLS era, at least, off the field and on it.  This would be the kind of move they'd make, considering they have made bringing in experienced Cancon from elsewhere a priority.

This is so sad but so true!

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They would never spend the money needed to get Osorio. Buy Fraser and Osorio!

Bargain bin only. Sick of the clubs recruitment. To think how much worse the club is now from Martin Rennie, it is criminal. They were essentially right to let him go too. Most clubs would upgrade. Caps have gone down and down. Reyna is a liability and past his promising first year he has been trouble and inconsistent at best. HiB tried to leave before he even joined and was never the answer. Adnan only turns up when he wants. The rest of the team are gambles and Canadian youth. Its humiliating. 

Liam Fraser though...  

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Ok we all know the WCaps are owned by mainly a guy who does not want to spend too much money. Moreover, they have been mismanaged from the start. However, the positive thing from a Canadian perspective is that they are playing a lot of Canadians and some young ones too. Therefore, if they are not going to be big spenders then yes keep going with mainly Canadian players. I’m hoping that they give this current coach more time then at least it looks like they are trying something. Look they might not ever be MLS contenders with this current ownership but I think they could become a respectable team that with some luck can make a bit of a run. Look at the NY Red Bulls the past few years have been very frugal and have gone with a lot of young American players and they have been very respectable. So maybe for the WCaps patience is the word and hopefully through sticking with the same players and letting them grow together they might improve. I believe in this coach I just think he needs more time and a couple of more pieces.

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I thought it was a good performance. Fraser is clearly tidy and does a good job at orchestrating the attack. I don’t think the Fraser / Bradley pairing is ideal against a competent MLS squad (whitecaps are absolutely awful). 
I don’t think Fraser needs to go on loan - if he can get spot starts like tonight and make some sub appearances would set him up well for a bigger role next year. 

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6 minutes ago, Floortom said:

I thought it was a good performance. Fraser is clearly tidy and does a good job at orchestrating the attack. I don’t think the Fraser / Bradley pairing is ideal against a competent MLS squad (whitecaps are absolutely awful). 
I don’t think Fraser needs to go on loan - if he can get spot starts like tonight and make some sub appearances would set him up well for a bigger role next year. 

Thats exactly what we said last year when Bradleys situation was still in the air.     Fraser is like one of those square Japanese watermelons.  Vanney keeps him in a box and thats all he can grow into.  Look at the game he had against the USA, how knows what he can do at this point eh??  He needs to go, before he looks around and has sat behind Vanneys favs until he is 22.  Oh wait he already is...

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31 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Fraser is like one of those square Japanese watermelons.  Vanney keeps him in a box and thats all he can grow into.

Lmfao what a great metaphor I'm stealing this one.

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Vanney used to talk about giving players a run of games to allow them to get comfortable and develop... I’m hoping he stands true to his word/philosophy, but somehow not too optimistic as this usually only applied to any one of the veteran US hacks TFC would carry on their roster at any given time.

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2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Thats exactly what we said last year when Bradleys situation was still in the air.     Fraser is like one of those square Japanese watermelons.  Vanney keeps him in a box and thats all he can grow into.  Look at the game he had against the USA, how knows what he can do at this point eh??  He needs to go, before he looks around and has sat behind Vanneys favs until he is 22.  Oh wait he already is...

The reduced season due to pandemic has made it so Bradley can still be pretty full time. He’s not going to wear down and need a lot of rest. Next year (assuming a return to normalcy) will be a different story. I think Fraser could get a lot of good minutes 

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