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I didn't watch the game so I cannot comment diretcly on this.  I am wondering how fellow center backs like Cornelius, Jakovic, Didic, Zator, K Miller would do against the likes of Zapata, Muriel, Illic etc. and a champions league quality team such as Atalanta?  Henry has never even seen that type of competition.  Perhaps our only center back who has any recent games vs champions league "quality" opponents would be Vitoria when he gets to play Benfica & Porto in Liga Nos.

Again, I didn't watch the game, but to only allow 1 goal against vs a high scoring team like Atalanta (still needs to win out too) is impressive.  If you think about it, I'm not sure any of our center backs could step into that game and get a result.

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90 mins and a clean sheet. This moves him to number 1 on the CB depth chart lol. 

Starting for Midtjylland vs Atalanta in Champions League. Massive opportunity for James

Played 90 vs Horsens in a 2-2 draw.   16 secs: Great block saving a goal and then a powerful sliding tackle to get the balls out of harms way.  Was not at fault for either of

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3 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I didn't watch the game so I cannot comment diretcly on this.  I am wondering how fellow center backs like Cornelius, Jakovic, Didic, Zator, K Miller would do against the likes of Zapata, Muriel, Illic etc. and a champions league quality team such as Atalanta?  Henry has never even seen that type of competition.  Perhaps our only center back who has any recent games vs champions league "quality" opponents would be Vitoria when he gets to play Benfica & Porto in Liga Nos.

Again, I didn't watch the game, but to only allow 1 goal against vs a high scoring team like Atalanta (still needs to win out too) is impressive.  If you think about it, I'm not sure any of our center backs could step into that game and get a result.

Based on the little I saw, I would say they wouldn't do much better or much worse.

James is pretty much an average center back in the context of our group. Probably not our best option, and probably not our worst. 

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James has not played much this season and to be thrust into the starting lineup in Champions league vs. Atalanta is a big ask for any player, let alone a CB. He drew a very tough assignment marking Zapata who is not just skilled but a beast and he generally handled him well except for a  superb move by #91 in the first half. Fortunately for James he has the speed to compensate and  was able to catch up and negate what would have been a good scoring opportunity. He then had to contend with Traore a young but very talented Ivorian later in the 2nd half. So two difficult assignments. Atalanta really turned it on late in the 2nd half with their subs and it was one way traffic from then on. I thought James handled himself well, all things considered.  He just has to get more playing time. Hope that happens in league play now. Its very difficult to compare him or his performance to guys like Cornelius, Miller or those in the CPL. The quality of Atalanta and Champions league is something none of those players have  experienced. 

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29 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

James has not played much this season and to be thrust into the starting lineup in Champions league vs. Atalanta is a big ask for any player, let alone a CB. He drew a very tough assignment marking Zapata who is not just skilled but a beast and he generally handled him well except for a  superb move by #91 in the first half. Fortunately for James he has the speed to compensate and  was able to catch up and negate what would have been a good scoring opportunity. He then had to contend with Traore a young but very talented Ivorian later in the 2nd half. So two difficult assignments. Atalanta really turned it on late in the 2nd half with their subs and it was one way traffic from then on. I thought James handled himself well, all things considered.  He just has to get more playing time. Hope that happens in league play now. Its very difficult to compare him or his performance to guys like Cornelius, Miller or those in the CPL. The quality of Atalanta and Champions league is something none of those players have  experienced. 

The game ended 1-1 and he was playing center back against Atalanta a team that when they are on can score for fun, without watching the game the fact he was a starting center back in that game and played the whole game and it ends 1-1 away from home in Bergamo in the bloody Champions League is a big win for him and the Canadian national team . He plays a position where guys playing in the CPL  God bless that League , and guys coming off the bench in the MLS are being considered as possible starters at that position for the Canadian national team , just stepping on to the field today vaults him to the top of possible starters for the Canadian national team, but he rated a 7.2 not that bad, and like I said with him back there Atalanta only scored a goal . So ya he has vaulted right to the top with that game in my eyes , and with no hesitation, if the national team had a World Cup qualifying game tomorrow against Mexico and it was a do or die game winner goes to the World Cup he starts not even a question , we have no one else at that position who has started and played a full game in the Champions League and rated a decent 7.2 .

Edited by SoccMan
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Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

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1 hour ago, Corazon said:

I am wondering how fellow center backs like Cornelius, Jakovic, Didic, Zator, K Miller would do against the likes of Zapata, Muriel, Illic etc. and a champions league quality team such as Atalanta? 

Most of those guys would be kicked out of the team the very next day. That's what I think...

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2 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

So true could not have said it better myself!

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6 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

Henry gets shit on too much as well. 

 

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23 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

The game ended 1-1 and he was playing center back against Atalanta a team that when they are on can score for fun, without watching the game the fact he was a starting center back in that game and played the whole game and it ends 1-1 away from home in Bergamo in the bloody Champions League is a big win for him and the Canadian national team . He plays a position where guys playing in the CPL  God bless that League , and guys coming off the bench in the MLS are being considered as possible starters at that position for the Canadian national team , just stepping on to the field today vaults him to the top of possible starters for the Canadian national team, but he rated a 7.2 not that bad, and like I said with him back there Atalanta only scored a goal . So ya he has vaulted right to the top with that game in my eyes , and with no hesitation, if the national team had a World Cup qualifying game tomorrow against Mexico and it was a do or die game winner goes to the World Cup he starts not even a question , we have no one else at that position who has started and played a full game in the Champions League and rated a decent 7.2 .

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that James COULD start for us. I always find it funny though when people change their opinion of a player so drastically just because they play a game for a team in a high level. It’s as if they think they went from being terrible to excellent players in a week’s time.
Not trying to criticize you, I just see that type of stuff on this site all the time. People criticize what squad the manager picks based on stuff like this, when in reality, I’m sure Herdman already knows what type of player he is and whether he is good enough to be in the squad or not. Certainly, being in good form and playing consistently at a high level will increase a player’s chances, but it’s not like James didn’t know what he was doing last week but suddenly learned how to play CB.

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26 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my opinion he is overrated.

I am very happy he played today against such a good team, but let's keep in mind that James has been 3rd of 4th choice all season. Hopefully this is the start of a run in the team, but I would be surprised if it was. Fingers crossed.

I would very happy for someone to clearly emerge as a top-level center back for Canada, and if that turns out to be James then great! I have nothing against him at all, and I do not give him shit because I don't like him, I just honestly don't see what the hype is about.

If he is our best center back then it is by the slightest of margins. Perhaps playing for Midtjylland in the Champions League is creating a halo effect with James, as @archer21 eludes to in the post above.

Edited by Obinna
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46 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

I'm not sure if you were referring to me and my earlier post.  I say that because you mention 3 center backs that I included in my post that no one else has.  

If so, perhaps you misinterpreted me.  I was asking a rhetorical question and I thought it was clear.  Because all of those center backs I mentioned (as you did above) would not stand a chance in todays game vs Atalanta.

Either way, I couldn't agree with you more.  And I also think Henry gets way to much s**t on this site.  If both are healthy and playing regularly, both James & Henry are my starters.

Edited by Corazon
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For the past couple years I have felt that James gets criticized so much he’s actually underrated.

That being said- he has been working his way up the ranks the last few years.  The fact is he started and was rated a 7.2 in Champions League Group Stage.  He’s playing for the Danish Champions and playing pretty good as their 3rd CB.

So let’s not overrate him or underrate him.  He’s been one of our top 4-5 CB for a number of years and he’s in form now.  That’s good for me for now.

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48 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my opinion he is overrated.

I am very happy he played today against such a good team, but let's keep in mind that James has been 3rd of 4th choice all season. Hopefully this is the start of a run in the team, but I would be surprised if it was. Fingers crossed.

I would very happy for someone to clearly emerge as a top-level center back for Canada, and if that turns out to be James then great! I have nothing against him at all, and I do not give him shit because I don't like him, I just honestly don't see what the hype is about.

If he is our best center back then it is by the slightest of margins. Perhaps playing for Midtjylland in the Champions League is creating a halo effect with James, as @archer21 eludes to in the post above.

To be fair the two CB's he is stuck behind would be for sure starters in MLS and the national team. 

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37 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Mainly was replying to Obinna but didn't quote them b/c it is a sentiment I've seen others imply as well.

I find him frustrating, because he doesn't seem to maximize his tools. He clearly has good speed. He is very comfortable on the ball. He is definitely not undersized. Yet I find he doesn't win his duals often enough or consistently enough.

I find his defending tepid. There was a play around the 85th minute where he had the jump on the striker, but instead of using his speed to see the ball out toward the touchline, or even playing the ball back to his keeper, he did neither and let the striker get onto the pass. He was then able to steer him away from goal, which was good, and so immediate threat was nullified, but later in that sequence another player drew a foul outside the box, which never would have happened had James handled things further up the field.

I know he is not perfect, and it was a good opponent, but I have seen him do that stuff against lesser competition too. To me that play was the epitome of who James is as a defender. I have never really seen a dominant performance from him, and in general he doesn't really seem sure of himself, whereas Henry at times can be too sure of himself, if you know what I mean. 

I am sure other people see things differently, but that is what I see in James. I am still very happy to have him as an option, and even if he starts for us I don't consider that egregious. But for now he is just not a starter for me, sorry.  

Edited by Obinna
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I didn’t watch the game. My boxscore analysis is this.

Midtjylland Champions League games without James. 4 games, 4 losses, 0 points, with 3,2,2 and 4 goals against in those 4 games. The previous game against Atalanta was 4-0.

Midtjylland Champions League games with James. 1 game, 1 point, with 1 goal against (their lowest in any CL game).

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3 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Why does James get shit on on this site so much? I don't get it. How many other Canadians are getting starts in the Champions League?

And people implying James is "no better no worse" than a CPL player (Zator) and marginal MLS CBs (Cornelius, Jakovic) is absolutely crazy to me. 

If Zator, Cornelius and Jakovic are just as good as James why aren't they starting against Atalanta in the Champion's League? 

 

It's ludicrous. Good chance none of those guys never even suit up to make the bench for the champion of a good European league, let alone play a UCL match in their career. I rate Cornelius, however, anyone playing anti football for Vancouver would look a level lower.

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my opinion he is overrated.

I am very happy he played today against such a good team, but let's keep in mind that James has been 3rd of 4th choice all season. Hopefully this is the start of a run in the team, but I would be surprised if it was. Fingers crossed.

I would very happy for someone to clearly emerge as a top-level center back for Canada, and if that turns out to be James then great! I have nothing against him at all, and I do not give him shit because I don't like him, I just honestly don't see what the hype is about.

If he is our best center back then it is by the slightest of margins. Perhaps playing for Midtjylland in the Champions League is creating a halo effect with James, as @archer21 eludes to in the post above.

No one is "hyping" James, but he is where he is because he is a solid CB, period, and he is more than starter material for the CMNT. And no, if he is out best CB then it's not by the slightest of margins. I agree its frustrating that he is not consistent, and that's my main irk with him, but when he is on, the gap in quality is clear. None of the guys he is competing with for playing time on the CMNT have the experience or quality he has.

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1 hour ago, LeoH037 said:

No one is "hyping" James, but he is where he is because he is a solid CB, period, and he is more than starter material for the CMNT. And no, if he is out best CB then it's not by the slightest of margins. I agree its frustrating that he is not consistent, and that's my main irk with him, but when he is on, the gap in quality is clear. None of the guys he is competing with for playing time on the CMNT have the experience or quality he has.

Fair enough.

I agree that when he is good he is good. The same goes for Henry. I want to see more though, because I just don't see him being good enough often enough. That's my gripe. I have seen more consistency from Henry, so he's built up a little more good will than James has, but I am encouraged he played in a big game today.

Both James and Henry can be great central defenders at the concacaf level, but both of them suffer from a lack of consistency, which is no surprise considering that each has played less football than your typical 27 year old.

To be more positive though, Henry showed us at Vancouver that he can be more consistent at the MLS level and now has done the same in the K-League. Meanwhile, James just made his freaking UCL debut and was not out of place!

That is something to be celebrated, so I won't rain on the parade anymore, even though the James mistake against Barbados and the Henry red card against Cuba are still fresh in my mind. 

Edited by Obinna
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1 hour ago, LeoH037 said:

love Vitoria, but he is getting up there in the years unfortunately

I think he meant the Midtjylland defenders. I think at least one of them is a full Danish international. Both guys ahead of James at club level would probably start for our national team.

Edited by Obinna
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