Ayo Akinola

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

With Cyle Larin and Lucas Cavallini netting hattricks last window, Corbeanu coming off a steller debut for Canada, and Jonathan David proving to be the hottest young forward in Ligue 1 right now, does anyone else feel that Ayo is kind of a "nice to have"?

Don't get me wrong, because I absolutely want him to play for us, and I love his potential, but it just doesn't feel like our chances depend on him right now. His path to get minutes with Canada for me is not clear. The Gold Cup will be a "B" tournament from our perspective, so perhaps that's his chance, but our fortunes don't exactly hinge on him being available for June WCQ. 

Anyways, I would probably feel different if he was playing and scoring, but he's not, so it's easy to see it that way until he gets back on the field and reminds us why we all rate him so highly. 

Our chances certainly don’t “depend on him” in any capacity.  We are getting stronger all the time and I don’t see that trend reversing soon. 
 

Having said that, for me, he is more than a “nice to have” situation.  He was an absolute beast in the MLS is Back tourney and at his age his potential ceiling is pretty high IMO.  And depth and competition for spots is always to our advantage.  Cav probably won’t be around for too many more years, and as exciting as Corbeanu was, who knows where he goes from here.  In 2026, Ayo could absolutely be in the conversation as a solid contributor for us.  Maybe not, of course, but I definitely want him in the program.   If he is fit in June, I would be calling him up if I was Herdman (and not just for cover for David).  

Edited April 8, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[Obinna]

41 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Our chances certainly don’t “depend on him” in any capacity.  We are getting stronger all the time and I don’t see that trend reversing soon. 
 

Having said that, for me, he is more than a “nice to have” situation.  He was an absolute beast in the MLS is Back tourney and at his age his potential ceiling is pretty high IMO.  And depth and competition for spots is always to our advantage.  Cav probably won’t be around for too many more years, and as exciting as Corbeanu was, who knows where he goes from here.  In 2026, Ayo could absolutely be in the conversation as a solid contributor for us.  Maybe not, of course, but I definitely want him in the program.   If he is fit in June, I would be calling him up if I was Herdman (and not just for cover for David).  

Who would you drop to bring him in for June? Would he need to replicate 2020 form to be called in, or do you still bring him in if his numbers are down?

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, Obinna said:

Who would you drop to bring him in for June? Would he need to replicate 2020 form to be called in, or do you still bring him in if his numbers are down?

Would depend who is healthy and how many spots we have, but I wouldn't mind seeing him place of Corbeanu for one window.  It would depend on how the window is arranged as well - do we need the same group for Aruba as we do for Suriname?  If not, I would def give him minutes against Aruba to see how he fits in.  Heck, I would take in place of Cav for Aruba if Cav could still be added later.

[Obinna]

51 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Larin's best position isn't as a number 9, Cavallini's is but a hat trick against a national Sunday league team isn't much to write home about and if Vancouver can't get it together his play will suffer, David's best position isn't as a 9 but he's the second best 9 in the region, and Corbeanu isn't a 9 either.

He's our 3rd best 9 and another successful MLS campaign where he gets to double digits will probably put him on par with Cavallini, or close enough that him being 8 years younger makes him more important.

Agree with this but want to note we saw Ayo playing out wide for Toronto last year, in a role not too dissimilar to Larin at Besiktas.  

[Canadian Chuck]

Ayo can also provide at least serviceable depth as a winger. He can play anywhere up front. We all remember his first MLS goal cutting in from the left. Two of his more recent starts last fall for TFC were on the wing, one each at LW and RW. At the U17 World Cup a few years ago he was exclusively a winger because Josh Sargent was the US starting striker. Played a lot at winger for their youth teams.

For the US the winger group of Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, Aaronson seems difficult to break in to barring injury (though Pulisic is certainly injury-prone).

[costarg]

1 hour ago, sebdeserio said:

Larin's best position isn't as a number 9, Cavallini's is but a hat trick against a national Sunday league team isn't much to write home about and if Vancouver can't get it together his play will suffer, David's best position isn't as a 9 but he's the second best 9 in the region, and Corbeanu isn't a 9 either.

He's our 3rd best 9 and another successful MLS campaign where he gets to double digits will probably put him on par with Cavallini, or close enough that him being 8 years younger makes him more important.

Bingo, you nailed it.

[red card]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Who would you drop to bring him in for June? Would he need to replicate 2020 form to be called in, or do you still bring him in if his numbers are down?

He's a Gold Cup pick. Not being ever in the national team set up, only viable match for Ayo is vs Aruba. 

He also hasn't played for a while and unknown when he'll play. If he isn't playing in May, then the Gold Cup is also off. If he plays but doesn't show any form, then it depends who else is on better form amongst the non WC qualifying strikers.

[canadianbacons]

Along as he is fit you bring him against Aruba and Suriname. Bring him in as a substitute against Aruba and have him on the bench for emergency purposes only against Suriname.

[trc2014]

I’m starting to feel he will sit out this whole cycle and focus on his club football and this will heat back up again in 2023.

[dyslexic nam]

49 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

I’m starting to feel he will sit out this whole cycle and focus on his club football and this will heat back up again in 2023.

Depends on the situation involved.  If we qualified for 2022 and called him up for the big show, I think he is in.  And that isn’t impossible depending on the kind of season he has this year.  The same would apply to the US, but I doubt he gets any time on their first team at this point.  

I doubt he commits to us just to play in the GC this summer.  For similar reasons, my idea of calling him up for the Aruba game is probably a pipe dream.  But you never know - maybe he is ready to make a decision.  And you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.  

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, trc2014 said:

I’m starting to feel he will sit out this whole cycle and focus on his club football and this will heat back up again in 2023.

Based on what? He’s been actively involved with NT football in his career so far. Really doubt he suddenly turns to a Hoilett, especially as he’s only playing MLS. I could see him waiting until the end of 2020 to decide but not an entire cycle.

The problem is that neither nation is going to be playing friendlies for the next little while. So he may be waiting for a January domestic camp if he’s not ready to be tied. 

[Kent]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:58 AM, MtlMario said:

For me personally having us as a "fallback" doesn't cut it. If you only want to wear the Maple Leaf on your chest only when nobody else wants you (or it would be good for your club career) well then I don't want you either. There SHOULD be PRIDE and HONOR when playing for your country(especially if you lived here most of your life). Anyways that's how I feel.

 

On 4/8/2021 at 9:24 AM, MtlMario said:

I don't see why we have to shut the door on Victoria, Arfield etc. We are following FIFA rules and if it makes our team better why not. I would accept Messi and Ronaldo too if it was possible. This a CDN fan thread after all.

How are both of these comments from the same person less than a half hour apart? What am I missing? Vitoria and Arfield only wanted to wear the maple leaf when nobody else wanted them. Same with Hoilett as Nolando mentioned. Why would you want to shut the door on Akinola but not for the guys who preceded him? These other guys were a lot older when they eventually accepted the call up than Akinola would be at the 2022 World Cup.

[Bison44]

Hoilet was still wanted by Jamaica, and he was 25 when he committed to us, not quite as bad as the others mentioned.   I think one of the knocks on Ayo is the fact he is playing for a CDN team.  I can understand Hoilet/Deguz etc playing/living overseas and getting swept up and wanting to choose that country.  But Akinola is in TO, he still lives here and it seems like he cant decide.  For me thats a bit harder to swallow.  

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Kent said:

How are both of these comments from the same person less than a half hour apart? What am I missing? Vitoria and Arfield only wanted to wear the maple leaf when nobody else wanted them. Same with Hoilett as Nolando mentioned. Why would you want to shut the door on Akinola but not for the guys who preceded him? These other guys were a lot older when they eventually accepted the call up than Akinola would be at the 2022 World Cup.

Hoilett chose us when Jamaica wanted him and when he wasn't eligible for England. There was a point where he seemed to think he may be, but it wasn't the case. Jamaica was interested throughout, though. 

Arfield only wanted to wear the maple leaf when David Edgar put the idea in his mind while the two were playing together at Burnley. Somehow doesn't feel right to put him in this discussion. He wasn't born in Canada and never grew up here.

Vitoria may be fair to include here, but he wasn't attending a Portugal camp and then attending a Canadian camp and then sitting on the fence to see what situation best suits him. I am not sure that even matters, but that's a difference between him and Vitoria if I had to look for one. 

The closest comparison between Akinola is probably Akindele and Bunbury. One went with us, one didn't. Both are MLS players who grew up in Canada and attended USA camps to varying degrees.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Vitoria may be fair to include here, but he wasn't attending a Portugal camp and then attending a Canadian camp and then sitting on the fence to see what situation best suits him. I am not sure that even matters, but that's a difference between him and Vitoria if I had to look for one. 

I'm not sure why the unbolded stuff in the middle would be relevant, but in terms of sitting on the fence.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2014-world-cup/csa-canada-soccer-steven-vitoria/

In that article you have Vitoria talking about keeping doors open and Steven Hart quoted as saying he called Vitoria up and he rejected Canada. That article is 3.5 years before he made his debut with Canada. I don't know if he was called more times or not in between those times.

[MtlMario]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

 

How are both of these comments from the same person less than a half hour apart? What am I missing? Vitoria and Arfield only wanted to wear the maple leaf when nobody else wanted them. Same with Hoilett as Nolando mentioned. Why would you want to shut the door on Akinola but not for the guys who preceded him? These other guys were a lot older when they eventually accepted the call up than Akinola would be at the 2022 World Cup.

What if it was more than a half hour?😀

[Dominic94]

The other thing to consider too is that Akinola is banking on his own ability to crack the US squad, in his mind he may full on believe he can be better than the current group that the US has upfront, and that’s ok. 

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, Kent said:

I'm not sure why the unbolded stuff in the middle would be relevant, but in terms of sitting on the fence.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2014-world-cup/csa-canada-soccer-steven-vitoria/

In that article you have Vitoria talking about keeping doors open and Steven Hart quoted as saying he called Vitoria up and he rejected Canada. That article is 3.5 years before he made his debut with Canada. I don't know if he was called more times or not in between those times.

Yeah, like I said.... I am not sure it matters. I was just describing the situation as I recalled it. 

Either way, point taken on Vitoria, I guess. Not sure I would compare the Hoilett situation to Akinola though, and I definitely wouldn't compare Arfield. 

[Ivan]

Hoillet would have fit in perfectly with the majority of the current Jamaican team.  He fits their profile - not born there, never having stepped foot in the country prior to playing a match!

[canadianbacons]

Akinola in some training photos on the TFC Instagram account.  Maybe he'll get into the game against Leon, although I would suspect only as a substitute.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNlBANjJYZq/?igshid=1xrcfd9hovjye

 

[Canadian Chuck]

Daryl Dike scored a bicycle kick yesterday and now has 9 goals in his last 901 English Championship minutes as Barnsley have moved into the Premier League promotion playoffs.

Worth noting Akinola's goal-scoring rate in 2020 MLS was actually better than Dike's when including the MLS Is Back tournament. Since then, Dike has progressed to be arguably the top option for the US' future at striker while Akinola has been out for medical reasons. So Akinola may truly believe if healthy he can be as good or better than the best young options the US has up front.

On another note the US has serious young talent at other positions from Premier League (left wing Pulisic, left back Robinson), La Liga (right back Dest, center attacking mid Musah), Bundesliga (left center back Brooks, right center back Richards, defensive mid Adams, right wing Reyna), and Serie A (center mid McKennie). All of them appear to be starters at club level and Brooks is the only one who is not a U23. If Dike becomes their answer at striker that is a very talented and young lineup from Europe plus Man City's #2 Steffen who is young for a goalkeeper. Then subs like Weah, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Aaronson, Reynolds, Cannon, Otasowie, McKenzie, Ledezma, Horvath also from Europe. How they will be managed tactically by Berhalter and if they stay healthy is another question.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Canadian Chuck said:

Daryl Dike scored a bicycle kick yesterday and now has 9 goals in his last 901 English Championship minutes as Barnsley have moved into the Premier League promotion playoffs.

Worth noting Akinola's goal-scoring rate in 2020 MLS was actually better than Dike's when including the MLS Is Back tournament. Since then, Dike has progressed to be arguably the top option for the US' future at striker while Akinola has been out for medical reasons. So Akinola may truly believe if healthy he can be as good or better than the best young options the US has up front.

On another note the US has serious young talent at other positions from Premier League (left wing Pulisic, left back Robinson), La Liga (right back Dest, center attacking mid Musah), Bundesliga (left center back Brooks, right center back Richards, defensive mid Adams, right wing Reyna), and Serie A (center mid McKennie). All of them appear to be starters at club level and Brooks is the only one who is not a U23. If Dike becomes their answer at striker that is a very talented and young lineup from Europe plus Man City's #2 Steffen who is young for a goalkeeper. Then subs like Weah, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Aaronson, Reynolds, Cannon, Otasowie, McKenzie, Ledezma, Horvath also from Europe. How they will be managed tactically by Berhalter and if they stay healthy is another question.

The other question is how much their relative lack of experience comes into play. I mean, eventually they will acquire that as time goes on, but a lot of those players mentioned are under 25. Actually, all of them are except Brooks (and Siebatcheu is 25), but yeah, as talented as that group is, it remains to be seen if they'll get the results to match in this cycle. 

Our program, while obviously nowhere close to the depth of theirs, has a far better balance of experience and youth. 

[LeoH037]

15 hours ago, Obinna said:

The other question is how much their relative lack of experience comes into play. I mean, eventually they will acquire that as time goes on, but a lot of those players mentioned are under 25. Actually, all of them are except Brooks (and Siebatcheu is 25), but yeah, as talented as that group is, it remains to be seen if they'll get the results to match in this cycle. 

Our program, while obviously nowhere close to the depth of theirs, has a far better balance of experience and youth. 

yeah... we shouldn't talk about experience... its not like we have much to write home about in that department either

Edited April 23, 2021 by LeoH037

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

yeah... we shouldn't talk about experience... its not like we have much to write home about in that department either

We have more experience than them as a team, but not by very much, so you're right in that regard.

However, what I meant was that man-for-man, we have some very experienced players, namely Hutchinson, Arfield, Borjan and Hoilett. Those four have played combined over 2000 club games.

The Americans just don't have enough veteran guys to lean on.

Maybe we can consider Brooks as the most experienced American player, or Ream if he's selected, but Brooks for example has roughly played as much club football as Jonathan Osorio, who is like what our 5th or 6th most experienced player? 

They'll have to learn as they go, which they absolutely can do, but I think you need to handicap their chances a little bit.

[Kadenge]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We have more experience than them as a team, but not by very much, so you're right in that regard.

However, what I meant was that man-for-man, we have some very experienced players, namely Hutchinson, Arfield, Borjan and Hoilett. Those four have played combined over 2000 club games.

The Americans just don't have enough veteran guys to lean on.

Maybe we can consider Brooks as the most experienced American player, or Ream if he's selected, but Brooks for example has roughly played as much club football as Jonathan Osorio, who is like what our 5th or 6th most experienced player? 

They'll have to learn as they go, which they absolutely can do, but I think you need to handicap their chances a little bit.

Plus playing Honduras, El Salvador or Panama away in WCQ is a daunting task and many of the US players have not had that pleasure yet. The Cdn players you mentioned plus Larin, Henry & Cavallini have been there before, so hopefully that will help us this time around