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Ayo Akinola


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The stocks of a couple US U23 strikers look to have taken a big hit with their Olympic qualifying failure. Namely Soto and Ferreira, they were poor against not-great opponents and it's difficult to see Akinola behind them in caliber. He's probably better than them.

However, there is still the European core of Sargent, Dike, Siebatcheu, Weah, and Hoppe who average about age 22. Plus Altidore and Zardes from MLS for a few years more. That's enough for Akinola to be not close to the USMNT for the long run even if some are injured. So he should be a Canada player -- if healthy.

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16 hours ago, Canadian Chuck said:

The stocks of a couple US U23 strikers look to have taken a big hit with their Olympic qualifying failure. Namely Soto and Ferreira, they were poor against not-great opponents and it's difficult to see Akinola behind them in caliber. He's probably better than them.

However, there is still the European core of Sargent, Dike, Siebatcheu, Weah, and Hoppe who average about age 22. Plus Altidore and Zardes from MLS for a few years more. That's enough for Akinola to be not close to the USMNT for the long run even if some are injured. So he should be a Canada player -- if healthy.

That won't stop the US from trying and building a great marketing campaign to cap him and then toss him on the pile until they figure out who they prefer.  

 

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Has anyone else noticed he's barely been mentioned in the US soccer media since he accepted a call to our January camp? 

The only mention of him since then was regarding his absence from both Olympic teams. I have heard zero mention of him in any conversation about the senior team. It's as if they expect him to play for us and honestly don't care too much. Much of that is the Dike effect, who Ayo was neck-and-neck with at one point, but obviously the optics have changed with the successful loan in the Championship. Siebatcheu coming in obviously diverts some attention away from Ayo as well. 

Things can change, and you never know goes on behind the scenes with the US team, what their priorities are, etc., but at least based on the media and fan reaction it's very, very, difficult to imagine Ayo decides to tie himself to the USA right now.

I am not convinced he's a slam dunk for us yet though, because he can simply wait a bit longer to wait to see if we get into the Octagon. If I had to put money on it though I would say he's going to be a Canada player.

Edited by Obinna
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52 minutes ago, cronaldo7 said:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4349702/usmnt-world-cup-2022-big-board-pulisic-first-on-the-plane-to-qatarbut-is-there-room-for-aaronson

 

USMNT roster predictions for next years World Cup (bit premature!). But they do have a lot of options. 

They should absolutely expect to qualify, but this just stinks of insecurity masked by overcompensation. This is the kind of thing rubs me the wrong way. A real big country in this game would not do that. They are still wannabes. 

Honduras and Costa Rica can still pose a threat, while Jamaica are stronger on paper than last cycle. We can also cause problems if we make it to the final round, which hasn't even begun yet, so why are they discussing who'll be on the plane to Qatar? 

Nothing is guaranteed.

This kind of thing can bite them in the butt, because the pressure is going to be immense if things don't go smoothly in the Octagon. They crumbled under pressure last time with a far more experienced group. If you're in the US media you really want to manage expectations, but this is not doing that whatsoever.

Edited by Obinna
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19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

They should absolutely expect to qualify, but this just stinks of insecurity masked by overcompensation. This is the kind of thing rubs me the wrong way. A real big country in this game would not do that. They are still wannabes. 

Honduras and Costa Rica can still pose a threat, while Jamaica are stronger on paper than last cycle. We can also cause problems if we make it to the final round, which hasn't even begun yet, so why are they discussing who'll be on the plane to Qatar? 

Nothing is guaranteed.

This kind of thing can bite them in the butt, because the pressure is going to be immense if things don't go smoothly in the Octagon. They crumbled under pressure last time with a far more experienced group. If you're in the US media you really want to manage expectations, but this is not doing that whatsoever.

Well they were guaranteed to make the olympics right ? Same deal applies to the WC

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

They should absolutely expect to qualify, but this just stinks of insecurity masked by overcompensation. This is the kind of thing rubs me the wrong way. A real big country in this game would not do that. They are still wannabes. 

Honduras and Costa Rica can still pose a threat, while Jamaica are stronger on paper than last cycle. We can also cause problems if we make it to the final round, which hasn't even begun yet, so why are they discussing who'll be on the plane to Qatar? 

Nothing is guaranteed.

This kind of thing can bite them in the butt, because the pressure is going to be immense if things don't go smoothly in the Octagon. They crumbled under pressure last time with a far more experienced group. If you're in the US media you really want to manage expectations, but this is not doing that whatsoever.

Certainly hope they fail to qualify again... It would be hilarious, and  genuinely curious to see if they'd scapegoat/crucify their new shiny players then. BuT ThEy PlAy iN EuRoPe!!

Edited by LeoH037
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1 minute ago, LeoH037 said:

Certainly hope they fail to qualify again... It would be hilarious, and  genuinely curious to see if they'd scapegoat/crucify their new shiny players then. BuT ThEy PlAy iN EuRoPe!!

Yep completely agree... the amount of USMNT fans that truly believe they’re contenders to WIN the World Cup in 2022/2026 is crazy, they need a bit of a reality check and a failure to qualify would be hilarious to be a bystander on

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7 minutes ago, N1ckbr0wn said:

Yep completely agree... the amount of USMNT fans that truly believe they’re contenders to WIN the World Cup in 2022/2026 is crazy, they need a bit of a reality check and a failure to qualify would be hilarious to be a bystander on

What will we do if we fail to make it to the final 8? Nothing wrong in dreaming big even if realistically the odds are favoured against you in this case the US winning a Cup anytime soon. Hey Italy failed to make the last World Cup . That’s what makes sports fun to be part of you always dream big but yet you know that realistically it ain’t happening. Moreover, sometimes even the most realistic results can come crashing down see Italy and the US in the last World Cup. Yes realistically we should make the final 8 this time but there is a chance it’s not happening, just that thought is scary but that’s what sports is about sometimes a lot of lows and hardly any highs but it won’t stop us from supporting in the end.

Edited by SoccMan
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17 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Certainly hope they fail to qualify again... It would be hilarious, and  genuinely curious to see if they'd scapegoat/crucify their new shiny players then. BuT ThEy PlAy iN EuRoPe!!

While I’d also find it comical, I can’t help but believe that the ripple effects of their success helps us a bit on a macro level. I do think this becoming less of a thing as we build more of our own identity with the CPL and such. 

If I had to pick teams from our region to represent us at the WC, I suppose it’d be Canada (obv), US, Mexico and hmm Jamaica? Perhaps not Jamaica as they may always pose a threat for snatching dual-nationals , so perhaps Costa Rica can take the 4th spot 😉

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1 minute ago, Obinna said:

The US media seem more convinced they'll qualify for Qatar than the Canadian media seem convinced we qualify for the Octagon. 

But they should based on how many times they have made it and the times they even advanced out of their group, our media would too if we had their success at making it to World Cups, but with our record most of our media are being very cautious and I can’t blame them.

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49 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Certainly hope they fail to qualify again... It would be hilarious, and  genuinely curious to see if they'd scapegoat/crucify their new shiny players then. BuT ThEy PlAy iN EuRoPe!!

How many of them are key players. How vital is Pulisic for Chelsea, or Dest for Barca, or McKennie for Juve? These guys are all doing decently for their clubs, but none of them are critical.

I would argue Davies and David are more critical for Bayern and Lille. Lozano is arguably more vital to Napoli (despite the rough start). Jimenez pre-injury was a key player for Wolves. Navas is more critical to PSG than Steffan is at Man City. Even Leon Bailey is arguably more important to Leverkusen than any American is for his European team. 

So there's more than just the playing for a club. Your role at a club is important and a lot of these Americans are role players for their clubs, not stars. Being a star for a big club is different than being a role player. I think this gets overlooked and leads to the overexcitement from the Americans. 

Things can change and some of these Americans can (and probably will) cement themselves as core players. Pulisic was in that category last season. Right now though the excitement is about their potential, not production. The hype will be warranted if and when they become stars at those clubs. 

Edited by Obinna
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Wrong thread but shouldn’t the World Cup be about each countries ability to produce players and test them against other countries soccer systems? Maybe allow only so many of these dual nationals but to have like 50 percent of your national team be players that did not spend any time in your countries youth system for me takes away some of what the World Cup should really be about . So when I see what some of these countries are doing stacking their teams with so many players that never kicked a ball in the countries they represent for me is a bit of joke . A guy like Akinola apart from playing with those US youth national teams is a product of our youth club soccer system developed here in Canada in the end.

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6 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

But they should based on how many times they have made it and the times they even advanced out of their group, our media would too if we had their success at making it to World Cups, but with our record most of our media are being very cautious and I can’t blame them.

That's fair, but my opinion remains the same. They are counting their chickens before they hatch. 

It's fine to be confident of your chances, surely the Dutch and Italians are, but are they focusing on their world cup team selections at this stage? If they are I will stand corrected, but even so they've begun qualification, at least. The Americans haven't even done that lol  

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Americans get pretty wound up and don't take losing well. I admire that a bit but if you consider how many good players they have that didn't play im not sure they should be all that pissed. I think they're full national team is looking pretty good

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7 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

Wrong thread but shouldn’t the World Cup be about each countries ability to produce players and test them against other countries soccer systems? Maybe allow only so many of these dual nationals but to have like 50 percent of your national team be players that did not spend any time in your countries youth system for me takes away some of what the World Cup should really be about . So when I see what some of these countries are doing stacking their teams with so many players that never kicked a ball in the countries they represent for me is a bit of joke . A guy like Akinola apart from playing with those US youth national teams is a product of our youth club soccer system developed here in Canada in the end.

That would be an interesting idea.  I think FIFA is moving in the other direction and just enabling weaker countries to load up on imported talent.  

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18 minutes ago, Obinna said:

How many of them are key players. How vital is Pulisic for Chelsea, or Dest for Barca, or McKennie for Juve? These guys are all doing decently for their clubs, but none of them are critical.

I would argue Davies and David are more critical for Bayern and Lille. Lozano is arguably more vital to Napoli (despite the rough start). Jimenez pre-injury was a key player for Wolves. Navas is more critical to PSG than Steffan is at Man City. Even Leon Bailey is arguably more important to Leipzig than any American is for his European team. 

So there's more than just the playing for a club. Your role at a club is important and a lot of these Americans are role players for their clubs, not stars. Being a star for a big club is different than being a role player. I think this gets overlooked and leads to the overexcitement from the Americans. 

Things can change and some of these Americans can (and probably will) cement themselves as core players. Pulisic was in that category last season. Right now though the excitement is about their potential, not production. The hype will be warranted if and when they become stars at those clubs. 

Interesting take.  I hadn't looked at it that way.  Definitely something to consider.  

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11 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

Wrong thread but shouldn’t the World Cup be about each countries ability to produce players and test them against other countries soccer systems? Maybe allow only so many of these dual nationals but to have like 50 percent of your national team be players that did not spend any time in your countries youth system for me takes away some of what the World Cup should really be about . So when I see what some of these countries are doing stacking their teams with so many players that never kicked a ball in the countries they represent for me is a bit of joke . A guy like Akinola apart from playing with those US youth national teams is a product of our youth club soccer system developed here in Canada in the end.

Good idea, even though FIFA are watering things down and moving in the opposite direction, as dyslexic nam said. 

Canada though has an entire squad of dual nationals with no history with their other nation or nations. The stipulation would have to include youth international caps, I think. So Kaye and Larin would not count as dual natonals for us, despite being of Jamaican heritage, while Arfield and Ayo (if he joins us) would.

I think that would actually be a good rule and if you only apply it to the World Cup proper, programs like Jamaica who rely on ex English youth internationals could still grow their programs during qualifying. Maybe that's the best of both worlds, because a Jamaican team in the World cup full of ex English youth internationals says nothing about the countries ability to produce players.

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18 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

Wrong thread but shouldn’t the World Cup be about each countries ability to produce players and test them against other countries soccer systems? Maybe allow only so many of these dual nationals but to have like 50 percent of your national team be players that did not spend any time in your countries youth system for me takes away some of what the World Cup should really be about . So when I see what some of these countries are doing stacking their teams with so many players that never kicked a ball in the countries they represent for me is a bit of joke . A guy like Akinola apart from playing with those US youth national teams is a product of our youth club soccer system developed here in Canada in the end.

I agree with your general point, though I am unsure what a specific solution would be. I remember as a kid being mad at Podolski and Klose because they were born in Poland but played for Germany. As I got older I accepted that the German system produced them so I was no longer upset, and I also realized that if they were developed in Poland they likely would not be as good as they were.

I was 6 years old when the 94 WC was played and the only distinct memory I have of it was seeing a NT manager being from a different country than the team he was coaching, and not understanding how that was allowed. :D

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6 minutes ago, costarg said:

Interesting take.  I hadn't looked at it that way.  Definitely something to consider.  

Here's another example:

Egypt going into the last world cup basically had a domestic roster with 2 players at big European clubs. one at Liverpool (Salah) and one at Arsenal (El Neney). 

Now there's two ways to look at that:

- Egypt has two star players

- Egypt has one star player

I think the first way is how the Americans look at their squad. 

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2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Good idea, even though FIFA are watering things down and moving in the opposite direction, as dyslexic nam said. 

Canada though has an entire squad of dual nationals with no history with their other nation or nations. The stipulation would have to include youth international caps, I think. So Kaye and Larin would not count as dual natonals for us, despite being of Jamaican heritage, while Arfield and Ayo (if he joins us) would.

I think that would actually be a good rule and if you only apply it to the World Cup proper, programs like Jamaica who rely on ex English youth internationals could still grow their programs during qualifying. Maybe that's the best of both worlds, because a Jamaican team in the World cup full of ex English youth internationals says nothing about the countries ability to produce players.

That’s the thing the national team should be like a measuring stick on the ability for a country to produce players. A country having a good enough environment for youth soccer players to develop and want to continue to keep playing and possibly perusing a pro career. Therefore, with the likes of Larin, David , Davies and a Corbeanu for example all players that are doing well I think it starting to show that here in Canada something seems to be changing for the better when it comes to our youth soccer set up where players of this caliber are coming out of , which to me is a great sign for the future .

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