Scott Arfield

[Shway]

another attempt at how do we start the mystery man with no minutes into a squad that is thriving. 

[gator]

2 minutes ago, Shway said:

another attempt at how do we start the mystery man with no minutes into a squad that is thriving. 

I get you don't rate Arfield, he did play some minutes in a Europa Lg match yesterday although he never made the pitch vs my Jambos last domestic match, if you are going to base this on minutes played for you club in the January window by your own reasoning you have eliminated a good chunk of our squad! I also stated that I really don't expect him back with the team, my lineup was illustrating that we have a quality squad of Euro based players to call on and that may be more desirable than playing MLS players who haven't kicked a ball in a  competitive match in 2 months!  

[Shway]

15 hours ago, gator said:

I get you don't rate Arfield, he did play some minutes in a Europa Lg match yesterday although he never made the pitch vs my Jambos last domestic match, if you are going to base this on minutes played for you club in the January window by your own reasoning you have eliminated a good chunk of our squad! I also stated that I really don't expect him back with the team, my lineup was illustrating that we have a quality squad of Euro based players to call on and that may be more desirable than playing MLS players who haven't kicked a ball in a  competitive match in 2 months!  

It’s not that I don’t rate him. Let’s clarify that first. Anybody who had a substantial career in the EPL deserves that. Secondly it wasn’t directed to you, as I didn’t see your post respectfully.It’s just a lot of you lot are treating him like he’s a game changer or the answer. When I think he’s past it. Arfield over Osorio or Kaye…Also disrespecting our current crop of guys who have got us into the top 50,  lost only 2 games two Mexico and USA while also tying them away…. by putting him immediately into starting lineups.

Im team the culture, guys who have made it out the mud in Canada, made it  possible that we can be the nation we are and they are proud to represent that. You don’t get the option to be wishy washy with your loose allegiance.
 

Now I can only think he’s only “recommitted” because he NOW sees the vision of where this team is going. 

Call up Paton he’s in form.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Shway

[king1010]

Starting today versus rangers. With Hoilett still injured does he make a return call up? 

[dyslexic nam]

34 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Starting today versus rangers. With Hoilett still injured does he make a return call up? 

I think I said this earlier but with the MLS guys (esp Kaye and Oso) out of season for our last two windows an in-form and in shape Scotty Arfield would be a pretty big and timely boost if he is getting solid minutes once again with Rangers.  No idea if he is seeking a return at this point but the timing works out well.  

Edited October 31, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[Razcle]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

I is think I said this earlier but with the MLS guys (esp Kaye and Oso) out of season for our last two windows an in-form and in shape Scotty Arfield would be a pretty be boost if he is getting solid minutes once again with Rangers.  No idea if he is seeking a return at this point but the timing works out well.  

This is my thought, but if you don’t invite him to this window, does he become more out of sync with our style/team?

[king1010]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think I said this earlier but with the MLS guys (esp Kaye and Oso) out of season for our last two windows an in-form and in shape Scotty Arfield would be a pretty big and timely boost if he is getting solid minutes once again with Rangers.  No idea if he is seeking a return at this point but the timing works out well.  

Agreed but the last window is March 24 to 30th. Would’t MLS be a month in?  Maybe more if they start earlier due to fall world cup. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by king1010

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Agreed but the last window is March 24 to 30th. Would’t MLS be a month in?  Maybe more if they start earlier due to fall world cup. 

Fair.  Didn’t really look at the schedule when posting.  But the point stands for January.  

6 minutes ago, Razcle said:

This is my thought, but if you don’t invite him to this window, does he become more out of sync with our style/team?

Agree with this in principle.  If the end-game thinking is to call him in January (and probably use him as a starter, since that would be the rationale), then a call and some training time in November to get reintegrated would be ideal.  

A few things might impact this whole idea though.  

-Scott may be willing to only come if absolutely needed and is expected to play a prominent role.  That may of may not be the case in November.

- Similarly, he may have other commitments and considerations that means he would prioritize a single window if called upon.

- I still wonder about any lingering locker room issues.  Between Hoilett’s “no 🧢” comment and Herdman’s revelations about cliques and fights, I have no idea what the real vibe is like between Scott and the rest of the team at this point.  All may be great and harmonious- but it may not.   

All of this may be moot because he could be fully done with the Nats anyway.   But if not, it would be great to get him back involved as long as he is operating at the levels we know he is capable of.  

[Razcle]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Fair.  Didn’t really look at the schedule when posting.  But the point stands for January.  

Agree with this in principle.  If the end-game thinking is to call him in January (and probably use him as a starter, since that would be the rationale), then a call and some training time in November to get reintegrated would be ideal.  

A few things might impact this whole idea though.  

-Scott may be willing to only come if absolutely needed and is expected to play a prominent role.  That may of may not be the case in November.

- Similarly, he may have other commitments and considerations that means he would prioritize a single window if called upon.

- I still wonder about any lingering locker room issues.  Between Hoilett’s “no 🧢” comment and Herdman’s revelations about cliques and fights, I have no idea what the real vibe is like between Scott and the rest of the team at this point.  All may be great and harmonious- but it may not.   

All of this may be moot because he could be fully done with the Nats anyway.   But if not, it would be great to get him back involved as long as he is operating at the levels we know he is capable of.  

You nailed it. We need to understand if there is any rift with the core players and if Arfield can be that veteran presence that can stabilize the boys when the need it (which I totally believe he can)……I am thinking outside of CONCACAF competition😉

[narduch]

If Herdman is the expert man manager people on this forum like to claim he is, there shouldn't be any issues bringing Arfield back.

[Floortom]

Not watching the match but search “arfield” on Twitter and 95% of the comments are extremely positive saying how his energy and link up play has been huge today.

[trc2014]

38 minutes ago, narduch said:

If Herdman is the expert man manager people on this forum like to claim he is, there shouldn't be any issues bringing Arfield back.

The expert manager would also know when not to bring him back if he was net negative to the team culture.

[apbsmith]

45 minutes ago, narduch said:

If Herdman is the expert man manager people on this forum like to claim he is, there shouldn't be any issues bringing Arfield back.

This ^. 

Plus Arfield had good leadership qualities when on the pitch. I'm sure he would consider "poor choice of words" just like Cavallini back in the day. This team is a brotherhood. If he's in form and playing in January, I am sure he will be considered with all relevant factors. One window at a time but January is going to be massive, with a huge chunk of our team out of season. 

Also the entire Vax thing with UK players in general. I read 98%+ of players in Italy are vaxed and ~50% in England in the top 3 leagues.  Not sure where Arfield and Hoilett stand ( personal decisions) but there is no travel quarentine exemption in Canada for non vaccinated. So if not vaxed, can't even play in Canada with quarentine rules. 

Hate to bring up the vaccination stuff, but unfortunately is relevant in squad selection. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by apbsmith

[apbsmith]

3 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

The expert manager would also know when not to bring him back if he was net negative to the team culture.

Very true, at this point we need to trust the boss with his selections. Although I do agree we were a bit thin last window. Hopefully we don't see that happen again. 

[jordan]

29 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Not watching the match but search “arfield” on Twitter and 95% of the comments are extremely positive saying how his energy and link up play has been huge today.

First half he was pretty quiet, but positive. I’ll take a look at the second half later

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

If Herdman is the expert man manager people on this forum like to claim he is, there shouldn't be any issues bringing Arfield back.

True, because it is the manager's task as well to make it happen. For example, to tell Hoillet to shut up if he doesn't like it.

In any case, in every call-up there are no sure starters, ever. Obviously we have guys who would almost certain start, but no manager can make promises.

So all you want to make sure is that if Arfield comes and does not play, he is not going to go home in a huff. And if he does walk in and play, or even start, the rest are not going to feel that way. 

I personally would call him in, as it is strong message to the group: you can't just coast in your club, we are going on form not just "brotherhood", and we'll take anyone to help us get to our goal. 

I suspect Herdman won't see it this way, and won't call him. He'll end up being the example or scapegoat, that someone who once was our captain but blew it. With the message always being: group over individualities, and everyone stick together. It'll also be Herdman's excuse to call in a few guys we have not seen, as he said he would. I suspect Ennin, and Teibert, and maybe he'll ensure Cornelius comes back, and Kennedy if healthy, to ensure alternatives on the back line. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kadenge]

Time is getting short. If the plan is to have Arfield involved in WCQ then Nov is it. I suspect if he is not called for window 3 it's the end of the road for him. The brotherhood is something that JH has clearly identified as a key pillar for the team and it's performance to date. Don't think he will mess with that unless the players are onside with his inclusion

[apbsmith]

Will be interesting. 

He has begin to feature again, I will admit I did not watch, but reviews seem positive. He is only 31, was pretty clear from media reports he was dealing with injury concerns and possibly additional personal matters. He's worn the armband and featured 16 times for the CMNT. 

"Arfield, however, has clarified on Rangers TV, that he has not yet retired from the national team. “That’s up to the Canada manager [whether I play again or not],” Arfield said, to RangersTV. “I think the last camp we had was last November and I’ve spoken to John Herdman on numerous occasions since that period.”"

Time will tell, I'm full support of both the brotherhood and form, on who deserves to be called. Arfield is a professional, I personally do not feel he would ruin any team chemistry.  You play for the flag, it's been established, if Arfield gets called, he will play for the flag, his fellow countrymen and for his Dad. That's my opinion anyways. 

Form will be most important before evaluating team chemistry.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by apbsmith
quotation

[gator]

Unless Arfield is a total cancer that would completely divide and disrupt the team if he is in form he needs to be called, almost every single club team deals with unity issues on a regular basis, you don't have to love all of your teammates, these are professionals not an U15 rep team! I remember the video of Scotty playing guitar and leading a sing along in one of the past camps, has he hit a sour note?

[Shway]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

If Herdman is the expert man manager people on this forum like to claim he is, there shouldn't be any issues bringing Arfield back.

On the contrary, that’s exactly what a man manager does…they cater to their guys aka keep the peace. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Shway

[apbsmith]

28 minutes ago, gator said:

 I remember the video of Scotty playing guitar and leading a sing along in one of the past camps, has he hit a sour note?

I remember that as well and as far as I can tell he was always incredibly supportive of the younger guys on the squad (likely why he got the arm band at one point). 

Not trying to derail the thread but going back to  @Unnamed Trialist mentioning  Hoilett, reminded me of the Hoilett post. No idea why Hoilett said that in the first place tbh and on a public social media platform. In the first window Davies is "injured" can't play vs El Salvador but Davies is training with BM within days... "no cap" doesn't apply to that one?

I really think that stuff above should be kept "in-house", glad it was during the 1st window with Davies.  No other players posted on social media about Davies missing El Salvador, they kept it internal. It sounds small but it's important imo that happened. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by apbsmith

[Free kick]

44 minutes ago, Shway said:

On the contrary, that’s exactly what a man manager does…they cater to their guys aka keep the piece. 

Peace?

Indeed.   yes,  there is a saying that gets thrown around alot in baseball and hockey. And it easily applies to soccer:  it says that a successfull man manager has to be able to keep the guys who dont like you away from the rest of the team. This is how you keep harmony in a locker room.   I am NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASES HERE with Arfield.   I am just responding to the suggestion made above that states the opposite: “…. If he is a good man manager , he shouldnt have issues bringing him back”.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Free kick

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

Time is getting short. If the plan is to have Arfield involved in WCQ then Nov is it. I suspect if he is not called for window 3 it's the end of the road for him. The brotherhood is something that JH has clearly identified as a key pillar for the team and it's performance to date. Don't think he will mess with that unless the players are onside with his inclusion

I think November would be the ideal window to recall him but I don’t see it as November or bust.   He might let Herdman know that he is just getting back into the first team and that he doesn’t want to jeopardize that - especially if he is only expected in a supporting role.  I am not sure that would be enough on either side of that discussion to draw a hard line in the sand that signifies the end.  I could still see him just joining us in January regardless of whether or not we see him in Edmonton.  If the MLS guys are healthy and ready to go in two weeks, there could be mutual agreement to just call him in the new year.    

[BearcatSA]

32 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Peace?

Indeed.   yes,  there is a saying that gets thrown around alot in baseball and hockey. And it easily applies to soccer:  it says that a successfull man manager has to be able to to separate the guys who dont like you from the rest of the team. This is how you keep harmony in a locker room.   I am NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE CASES HERE with Arfield.   I am just responding to the suggestion made above that states the opposite: “…. If he is a good man manager , he shouldnt have issues bringing him back”.

That only works if your most important guys are on board with you.  And, it doesn't take a whole lot to have too many of your most important guys not on board with you.

As I have said (ad nauseum, I guess😞):  you don't really know how good your team culture is until you have to deal with adversity exasperated by the weight of expectations.

We're rolling right now.  Let's keep our eyes on the prize.  I don't care what the conditions will be in Edmonton but Mexico will be highly motivated for this one.

Edited October 31, 2021 by BearcatSA

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

That only works if your most important guys are on board with you.  And, it doesn't take a whole lot to have too many of your most important guys not on board with you.

As I have said (ad nauseum, I guess😞😞 you don't really know how good your team culture is until you have to deal with adversity exasperated by the weight of expectations.

We're rolling right now.  Let's keep our eyes on the prize.  I don't care what the conditions will be in Edmonton but Mexico will be highly motivated for this one.

All true.  Yes, there are other factors indeed.   Your star players have to be on board.  If they are not, then you are toast.  But that also tell us something about this whole debate about including or excluding Arfield.   Is he or isnt he a star player?  And if the team is succeeding without him?
 

Yes adversity will and would tell us alot a managers skills and be the true test.  Therefore one or two losses would be true test.  But hopefully we dont have to see that.  I listened Herdman on a couple of local radio interviews and i did pick up some things to suggest that he has strenght in man-management. For example, A few weeks ago, there was a lot of talk about Davies and the Davies goal.   I was listening to a show where he came on just after they were talking for about twenty minutes about only Davies and that Davies impact on the team.  This interview coincided with that Cathal Kelly article that made it sound like MNT was a one man show.  In that interview,  when asked about Davies, he quickly mentioned the names of a few others like TB and Laryea in the same sentence.

That was smart. Because you want to make sure that you have a culture where no feels that they are under appreciated or under valued.  Becasue, thats the kind of stuff that start to cause rifts .   These are examples of other ways you man managed.  Players all have ego and you have to have a bit of an ego to be good.  Massaging that ego, how to massage that ego and whose egos you massage is part of good man management.  
 

Previous MNT managers never did the same number of public media appearances like Herdman.  Floro, for example,  did none.  Herdman is using them to his advantage and the team culture’s advantage. I m not saying that this is the only reason to do media appearances, but they serve a purpose other than just feeding the media’s needs for airtime and ink space.
 

But getting back to this topic,  if a manager (in any profession) appropriately separates those guys who do like him (ie.:  by burying them on less significant assignment/projects, sending them to the minors, or not calling them up) and you manage to win and get results,  then you you have done your job.  

Edited October 31, 2021 by Free kick