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Russell Teibert

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I've always liked Rusty, even from u14 provincials and he snitched on us older guys lol... But like someone said above, hes too deep on the depth chart. MAK is being moved out of position, and he 9x out of 10 should play over Rusty. Hes in the mold of Will Johnson... All heart, and hustle but sometimes we need more than that. 

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All im saying is hes been a professional for the Whitecaps for nearly 10 years... His time to solidify his spot in middle is beyond now. 

We all want to see him succeed, but his trajectory is going a lot slower than a lot of players who are ahead of him. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

All im saying is hes been a professional for the Whitecaps for nearly 10 years... His time to solidify his spot in middle is beyond now. 

We all want to see him succeed, but his trajectory is going a lot slower than a lot of players who are ahead of him. 

I completely disagree with that and ill explain why. Im not sure how closely you follow the Caps but most would say the Teibert we saw late last year was the best RT we've ever seen. He's been steadily improving but his problem like that of many domestic players is they've become victims of a rapidly improving standard of play in the MLS.  Especially for a player who occupies the space on the field in which its standard now in the MLS that you put your high paid skilled imports. Or at least if you want to win. Ill give you a comparable. At 29 there is no reason to think Felipe's standard of play would be decreasing. 5 years ago he was a very solid MLS starter. A coulle years ago he was the heart of a Red Bull midfield that i think won the supporters shield. Now, the guy looks completely out of his depth as a starter and at best can be considered a grinding depth player in the MLS. Much like a couple kids on Toronto that cant exactly beak thru, there's a rapidly rising tide in the MLS that is very difficult to keep up with

 

And by the way.. the discussion is about Russell Teibert not anyone else on the CMNT. The fact that needs to be pointed out might be the problem 

Edited by SpursFlu

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I'd argue it's less about the above and more about his management. 

At best he was subject to mastermind long term vision of gowing his abilities at worst they ruined a lot of potential and years of his career. 

He emerged as an exciting left flank player. Had great speed, energy and vision, could beat his man but more importantly cross well and pick out a pass. 

He had injury problems for sure but Robinson turning him into a DM was the single biggest factor of his career stall but could yet bet a blessing. 

I have posted about this with RT so much I bore myself, let along you guys and girls but I think he had great potential as a deeplying playmaker and have always seen great potential in him. If that's what Robinsons long term vision was I can understand trying to add the defensive parts of the game to his arsenal to make him more rounded. To me it looked like he was shackled from doing what he loved and looked best at which was bringing the ball forward. Instead he looked limited to short passes usually backwards and tidying up. 

I agree with JH with many years gone and the player pool at national level has become fierce in the middle but if MDS can bring it all together and he stays off the treatment table he has lots of time to still grow into the player he looks capable of. Whether that is enough to break the CMNT starting line up I am not sure. 

I do think as someone that is allowed to sit deep as a playmaker he has unique skills. He picks out passes better than most. He is certainly a different option to piette but we would lose some defensive to add offensive. 

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Posted (edited)

He wont be in the CNNT starting lineup. That aint happening. Making the bench is best case scenario for him

Edited by SpursFlu

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I agree with SpursFlu about MLS with 1 caveat.  Think back on the 2013 Gold cup.  Osorio and Tiebert both having their break out years, both early 20's.  Both came in having decent MLS seasons and not many CMNT games under their belt.  They both were in the mix and got starts in that Gold cup (even Bekker started).  Flash forward to the situation now, similar level players Edwards and Chapman,  (mid 20's) each with a spot starter with a handful of goals last season in a better MLS than 6 years ago.  BUT neither has much shot at getting into the gold cup games this summer.  Because although MLS has improved our National team has improved at a much faster pace.  Being a fringe MLS guy barely gets you into the conversation now.  You need to be a regular MLS starter playing well (Osorio/MA Kaye/Piette) or above to make the grade.  

I am a big fan of Tiebert, but recent commitments to (arfield/Hoilet) and the development of younger stars (Davies/David/Millar) has really pushed him out of the national team picture.  No disrespect, its something we are not used to...having a bit of depth and options up front.  

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Posted (edited)

Once again, he has to have a strong next few months, not just coasting. 

He was good the last dozen games last season, very strong on a team that was pretty poorly run. I'd say we need him to be at that level, then you can call him in, assuming everyone is healthy in our midfield.

Basically the same for Will Johnson, and for Akindele.

And of course if any other of the MLS guys in the mix were to fall off, they'd also risk losing a chance at starting (Oso, Kaye, Piette). 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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I really like him a lot as a player.  Great energy and work rate.  But the point made above is true.  Our team has developed depth very quickly in the past 3 years.

Also I think 3 years ago Tiebert was roughly on the same level as Piette and Osorio but those 2 players have developed so quickly and turned into very good players.

Both have developed into players in the conversation of being MLS all stars, not just MLS players or starters.  

Then when Arfield joined he more or less pushed Tiebert out of the way.

All that being said- Tiebert is a very valuable player to our pool.  Injuries happen and not everyone is available every game.  If we have a baseline of RT to fall back to then we’re at a much better place then we have been in the past.

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Totally. Our team is getting really good. Also consider the fact that Joathan David also can be a 10 or an advanced midfielder. Now add Estaquio to the mix. They're good players but i think it will be tough for guys like Teibert, Osorio, Chapman etc to make the game day 18. I think MAK is the one who rises above the other guys just because he's versatile. It doesnt mean they're not good or they havent improved, like others have pointed out, the CMNT and MLS have seen an increase of standard of play in a short period that isnt common

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Bison44 said:

both were in the mix and got starts in that Gold cup (even Bekker started). 

Things have indeed changed in a big hurry.  I mean, at the end of last season we had people here suggesting that Bekker should be in the mix based on his USL season.  Heck, I remember when Bekker got his first senior caps without having played a minute as a pro. 

It's great to see some legitimate competition for spots in midfield and up front.

 

Edited by BearcatSA

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15 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Totally. Our team is getting really good. Also consider the fact that Joathan David also can be a 10 or an advanced midfielder. Now add Estaquio to the mix. They're good players but i think it will be tough for guys like Teibert, Osorio, Chapman etc to make the game day 18. I think MAK is the one who rises above the other guys just because he's versatile. It doesnt mean they're not good or they havent improved, like others have pointed out, the CMNT and MLS have seen an increase of standard of play in a short period that isnt common

Estaquio is reportedly a more defensive midfielder and won't be available until Atiba retires (ie. after the Gold Cup) - of the three players that you've mentioned there, I think it would be Teibert who would be under the most "threat" (of not even making a national team roster) from adding in Estaquio into the mix as the other two are much more in the way of offensive midfielders than Tiebert is as their respective MLS stats bear out. The other factor for Teibert in the short term is the potential re-emergence of Will Johnson into the squad as he also provides a lot of hustle in the midfield as a defensive midfielder but with a bit more steel and Herdman might want another vet into the mix once Atiba is gone.

All that said, I would expect Teibert to make the Gold Cup squad of 23 unless he is injured at the time.

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Teibert is kinda like the Will Trapp of our squad. Defensive mid in his prime with leadership qualities, who has demonstrated his ability in MLS for years, but we question if his place in the national team is deserved, despite him doing well when called upon.

On paper, Eustaquio should take his minutes, and probably will, but he hasn't put on the red jersey, nor has he played with this group, so the spot is technically Teibert's to lose. I hope our new recruit comes back stronger than ever from his ACL injury, but if game time with Cruz Azul is hard to come by and Teibert is playing 90 minutes every week with Whitecaps, Teibert retaining his spot is very likely.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I get what your saying @Obinnabut one player is a crucial player to their team, the other is a rotational/sporadic player.

 

Eustaquio isn't really crucial. Maybe that's the plan but he played 1 game for them and then got hurt. We don't know how big of an influence he will be for Cruz Azul.

 

edit: oops nevermind you were talking about Wil Trapp.

Edited by Vince193

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1 hour ago, Vince193 said:

Eustaquio isn't really crucial. Maybe that's the plan but he played 1 game for them and then got hurt. We don't know how big of an influence he will be for Cruz Azul.

 

edit: oops nevermind you were talking about Wil Trapp.

Even still, if both Rusty and Step play the same roles for their team. One is playing/training in an inferior league/with better players. 

All in all Rusty should be fighting for his place in the 23...but I feel he already has it for whatever reason. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I get what your saying @Obinnabut one player is a crucial player to their team, the other is a rotational/sporadic player.

 

I also thought you were talking about Eustaquio by the way :)

True about Trapp, and not to say Teibert is a superior player, but let's recognize he's been in a far more stable club environment than Teibert. Russell has played for six different coaches in Vancouver, Trapp has played for one - Greg Berhalter.

The same coach, with the same philosophy and style of play leads to less rotation, less experimentation, etc. This must be noted when comparing their minutes.

The reality is that Trapp is crucial to his club and Teibert is not, but that's not simply down to ability. Stability matters.

Come to think of it, I struggle to think of another Whitecap who has been more of a constant over this time span than Teibert...so if anything I think he deserves more credit....

By the way, I think this is why caps fans want some respect for Teibert. He's a staring quality player who doesn't always start for a multitude of reasons that don't really have to do with his quality.

Edited by Obinna

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Even still, if both Rusty and Step play the same roles for their team. One is playing/training in an inferior league/with better players. 

All in all Rusty should be fighting for his place in the 23...but I feel he already has it for whatever reason. 

I smell the same thing. I have this gut feeling that Teibert is a Herdman favorite, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to fight for his place. 

I know that it comes off as undeserved, because we haven't seen some drastic uptick in Teibert's play, but it's probably down to mindset and/or attitude. Those qualities are less measurable for us, right?

I think that may be the reason why you feel that way. I feel that way too.

 

Edited by Obinna

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Posted (edited)

I absolutely love Russel. The guy is a gem, and i think he should be started nearly every week for the Caps. That being said, he just isn’t a starter for the national team. He is an awesome all around player, but he isnt quite as specialized which actually hurts him i think. 

Although Tiebert is a bit more skilled of a player than Piette, Piette is just to good at breaking up plays and playing that destroyer role. So for the position of DM Piette tops Tiebert. And of course there is also Hutch and Eustaqio to consider.

In terms of a Box to Box mid, which i think is Tiebert’s best position, he has to compete against Arfield and Kaye. Arfield is one of Canada’s best players hands down, so he obviously beats out Tiebert. I also think Kaye beats out Tiebert in offensive ability and Physical prowess. So again Tiebert loses out.

Finally, for an attacking mid, Tiebert just lacks the ability to make penetrating runs and creative short passes. Tiebert is a very good long passer, he spreads the ball quickly and can put in a good long through ball or cross, but he struggles to make clean quick attack minded passes. Osorio also struggles to make those same passes, but he makes great offensive runs and creates a lot of space. So Osorio beats out Tiebert again. Of course, David and Arfield can also play AM, which puts Tiebert even further down the list.

I love Tiebert, but he is just a depth player, and for me isnt even a number 2 for any midfield position. It feels strange to say that about a skilled and fully committed player, but its true.

Edited by BenFisk'sBiggestFan

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1 minute ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I absolutely love Russel. The guy is a gem, and i think he should be started nearly every week for the Caps. That being said, he just isn’t a starter for the national team. He is an awesome all around player, but he isnt quite as specialized which actually hurts him i think. 

Although Tiebert is a bit more skilled of a player than Piette, Piette is just to good at breaking up plays and playing that destroyer role. So for the position of DM Piette tops Tiebert. And of course there is also Hutch and Eustaqio to consider.

In terms of a Box to Box mid, which i think is Tiebert’s best position, he has to compete against Arfield and Kaye. Arfield is one of Canada’s best players hands down, so he obviously beats out Tiebert. I also think Kaye beats out Tiebert in offensive ability and Physical prowess. So again Tiebert looses out.

Finally, for an attacking mid, Tiebert just lacks the ability to make penetrating runs and creative short passes. Tiebert is a very good long passer, he spreads the ball quickly and can put in a good long through ball or cross, but he struggles to make clean quick attack minded passes. Osorio also struggles to make those same passes, but he makes great offensive runs and creates a lot of space. So Osorio beats out Tiebert again. Of course, David and Arfield can also play AM, which puts Tiebert even further down the list.

I love Tiebert, but he is just a depth player, and for me isnt even a number 2 for any midfield position. It feels strange to say that about a skilled and fully committed player, but its true.

I agree with almost all of this. The only thing I disagree with is Tiebert's lack of creative short passing or offensive runs from midfield. I have seen him do these things well on occasion.

I think what separates Osorio from Teibert is his flair and the instinctual way he can get away from opponents on the dribble.

But we don't play with an attacking midfielder and haven't for a long, long time, but I get what you are saying, if we did Osorio would be ahead of Teibert (though wouldn't be an ideal no. 10).

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Assist tonight. 

Can i say man this guy has had a real solid run of games. I haven't been impressed with him before, but I'm glad he's changing my mind (not that it matters) with his play. 

He definitely deserves his place in the CMNT. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Shway said:

Assist tonight. 

Can i say man this guy has had a real solid run of games. I haven't been impressed with him before, but I'm glad he's changing my mind (not that it matters) with his play. 

He definitely deserves his place in the CMNT. 

 

Great assist. God he's been bad since then, and this is me saying it.

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