Canadians in MLS (2015 Season)

[Steedman]

^{As of two games played in the MLS, 8 Canadians have seen competitive action, that 8 includes Tesho and Vitoria. 5 of the 8 have been capped. Very sad for our national team.}

 

^{I think protesting is the only way to draw attention to the issue of Canadians being internationals in a split country league. Im curious as to how many supporter groups in Canada, have Tifo’s expressing their displeasure with the domestic rule. How many people have written letters or e-mails to clubs and the league it’s self. What about pressuring the sponsors into saying something. The more pressure both the NASL and MLS feel, the sooner something could happen. Time to be less passive aggressive Canadians. https://www.change.org/start-a-petition?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GDN_USER_GEOT2_SCHT1_start_online_petition_exact
Here’s a link for an online petition, it means nothing, but hell, it’s a start.}

^{Maybe we the leagues could tackle this in baby steps. Maybe a "Maple Leaf" rule could be adopted, where one Canadian would count as domestic and not international.}

[El Hombre]

^{As of two games played in the MLS, 8 Canadians have seen competitive action, that 8 includes Tesho and Vitoria. 5 of the 8 have been capped. Very sad for our national team.}

 

^{I think protesting is the only way to draw attention to the issue of Canadians being internationals in a split country league. Im curious as to how many supporter groups in Canada, have Tifo’s expressing their displeasure with the domestic rule. How many people have written letters or e-mails to clubs and the league it’s self. What about pressuring the sponsors into saying something. The more pressure both the NASL and MLS feel, the sooner something could happen. Time to be less passive aggressive Canadians. https://www.change.org/start-a-petition?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GDN_USER_GEOT2_SCHT1_start_online_petition_exact}

Here’s a link for an online petition, it means nothing, but hell, it’s a start.

^{Maybe we the leagues could tackle this in baby steps. Maybe a "Maple Leaf" rule could be adopted, where one Canadian would count as domestic and not international.}

 

Don't you think we should tackle the issue of playing time for Canadians on teams where they are considered domestic first, before we try to take on their international status on American teams?

[Ruffian]

Don't you think we should tackle the issue of playing time for Canadians on teams where they are considered domestic first, before we try to take on their international status on American teams?

 

Agreed. They should raise the Canadian roster spot requirement up to the number there was when TFC first started playing in MLS. It was lowered because TFC claimed there was not enough Canadian talent to fill the roster spots. They have had 7 years to develop players to fill those spots. If they have not put the effort in to develop those players who can contribute in the MLS it is because they did not worry about having to field good Canadian players. This is because they knew they could fill the Canadian roster requirements by using the extra roster spots that would never really need to be used.

[lazlo_80]

Whats the number required right now by Canadian clubs? 3? Feel like it could easily be upped to 5. Or even aggregate it so one year of 4 and the next year of 5.

[shamrock]

Don't you think we should tackle the issue of playing time for Canadians on teams where they are considered domestic first, before we try to take on their international status on American teams?

 

Exactly. Of course it wouldn't hurt the program if Canadians would be considered domestics on US-teams. But even it they were, what players are out there to fill in those spots when Canadian teams can hardly find any Canuck-players good enough or willing to play for them? Produce those MLS-standard players to start with, then increase the required quota for Canadian clubs en then, maybe, address the issue of domestics at US-teams. 

[Ruffian]

Exactly. Of course it wouldn't hurt the program if Canadians would be considered domestics on US-teams. But even it they were, what players are out there to fill in those spots when Canadian teams can hardly find any Canuck-players good enough or willing to play for them? Produce those MLS-standard players to start with, then increase the required quota for Canadian clubs en then, maybe, address the issue of domestics at US-teams. 

 

I think it is a lot more likely that Canadian teams will have to up their Canadian content than American teams having Canadian players not be international because the higher Canadian roster rules has been true in the past and the teams required to change have interest and pressure to include Canadians. Canadian teams can no longer claim that they will be uncompetitive because they are required to have more Canadians on theirs teams because all three Canadian MLS teams have generally not been competitive while having almost complete starting teams with American and international players.

[shamrock]

Vancouver wasn't competitive last season? Montreal wasn't the season before? And again, who are the players you would like to see playing in MLS? Guys playing for the second league in Norway, Sweden, or the first league in Finland? Guys from Germanies 4th tier? Seriously, where are those players who are at least at a par with the US and international MLS-players?

[El Hombre]

Vancouver wasn't competitive last season? Montreal wasn't the season before? And again, who are the players you would like to see playing in MLS? Guys playing for the second league in Norway, Sweden, or the first league in Finland? Guys from Germanies 4th tier? Seriously, where are those players who are at least at a par with the US and international MLS-players?

I think the fact that NYRB signed Ouimette, SKC signed De Jong, FC Dallas signed Bekker, Orlando drafted Larin first overall all point to the fact that you are wrong.  The US teams aren't the problem.

 

Do you need more examples?  Here are some:

 

DC United signed Jakovic (from the Serbian league)

Houston signed Hainault (from the Czech league)

LA Galaxy signed Jazic (from the Russian league)

Real Salt Lake signed Will (and saved him from sitting on the bench on the worst team in the Eredivisie)

Houston signed Serioux (from Unattached FC)

 

It's really hard to make the argument that there aren't any Canadians good enough to be signed when all of the above were plucked out of (relative) obscurity and all (except Will) counted as an international.

[lazlo_80]

I think the fact that NYRB signed Ouimette, SKC signed De Jong, FC Dallas signed Bekker, Orlando drafted Larin first overall all point to the fact that you are wrong.  The US teams aren't the problem.

 

Do you need more examples?  Here are some:

 

DC United signed Jakovic (from the Serbian league)

Houston signed Hainault (from the Czech league)

LA Galaxy signed Jazic (from the Russian league)

Real Salt Lake signed Will (and saved him from sitting on the bench on the worst team in the Eredivisie)

Houston signed Serioux (from Unattached FC)

 

It's really hard to make the argument that there aren't any Canadians good enough to be signed when all of the above were plucked out of (relative) obscurity and all (except Will) counted as an international.

 

Going a step further, you could argue there's more Toronto FC graduates playing for professional teams around the world than Toronto FC

 

Petrasso

Gasporotto

Aleman

Henry

[masster]

Don't you think we should tackle the issue of playing time for Canadians on teams where they are considered domestic first, before we try to take on their international status on American teams?

 

No. Because that means rules are different for different clubs in the same league, thus putting some teams at an advantage. Consistent rules for all clubs is what is required. Equality.

[masster]

Going a step further, you could argue there's more Toronto FC graduates playing for professional teams around the world than Toronto FC

 

Petrasso

Gasporotto

Aleman

Henry

 

Gasparotto did not come from TFC.

[tarnado1555362291]

do you mean Carreiro?

[masster]

I think the fact that NYRB signed Ouimette, SKC signed De Jong, FC Dallas signed Bekker, Orlando drafted Larin first overall all point to the fact that you are wrong.  The US teams aren't the problem.

 

Do you need more examples?  Here are some:

 

DC United signed Jakovic (from the Serbian league)

Houston signed Hainault (from the Czech league)

LA Galaxy signed Jazic (from the Russian league)

Real Salt Lake signed Will (and saved him from sitting on the bench on the worst team in the Eredivisie)

Houston signed Serioux (from Unattached FC)

 

It's really hard to make the argument that there aren't any Canadians good enough to be signed when all of the above were plucked out of (relative) obscurity and all (except Will) counted as an international.

 

But if an American club has the Canadian player on their discovery list, then the Canadian club doesn't have a chance to get the player. Same thing with Larin and the draft. No Canadian club had a legitimate chance to sign him. There are so many stupid MLS rules that prevent this from being possible for Canadian clubs. That is why equality across the league would be the easiest and best solution.

 

All of the other examples you gave were prior to Montreal or Vancouver even being in the league. I don't think those are fair examples.

[jonovision]

No. Because that means rules are different for different clubs in the same league, thus putting some teams at an advantage. Consistent rules for all clubs is what is required. Equality.

 

Consistent rules for all clubs means no Canadian quota for Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. I'm not OK with that.

[Ivan]

Going a step further, you could argue there's more Toronto FC graduates playing for professional teams around the world than Toronto FC

 

Petrasso

Gasporotto

Aleman

Henry

Gasparotto,, no.  Carreiro, yes.  Ricardo Ferreira was also a TFCA grad.

[Grizzly]

But if an American club has the Canadian player on their discovery list, then the Canadian club doesn't have a chance to get the player. Same thing with Larin and the draft. No Canadian club had a legitimate chance to sign him. There are so many stupid MLS rules that prevent this from being possible for Canadian clubs. That is why equality across the league would be the easiest and best solution.

 

All of the other examples you gave were prior to Montreal or Vancouver even being in the league. I don't think those are fair examples.

 

Yes the DeJong case is a perfect example. First of all I am sure he was a player that all the Canadian clubs would be interested in but him becoming available doesn't mean that each club has room under their salary cap and/or a need for a left back/mid at the time he is available. Clubs can't just change their whole season plan because X Canadian is suddenly available. And in DeJong's case his agent had a connection with SKC management and gave them early notice he would be available so they put him on their discovery list before any of the Canadian teams knew his contract with Augsburg was going to be terminated and that he was interested in coming to MLS.

 

I would like to see more Canadian players though and think it would be best to have them domestic league wide. Whatever the work regulations of the US, I am sure if there was a will to do this by MLS there would be a way to make it work. But since it seems there is no will at the very least the CSA should be starting to increase the Canadian quota. They would need to do this slowly so it doesn't put our teams at a competitive disadvantage but increasing it to 4 next year and 5 a couple of years after should be something the teams could handle and would also give us fans and upcoming Canadian players a sign that our teams are interested in developing and playing Canadian players.

[lazlo_80]

my bad. thanks for the updates guys.

[shamrock]

I think the fact that NYRB signed Ouimette, SKC signed De Jong, FC Dallas signed Bekker, Orlando drafted Larin first overall all point to the fact that you are wrong.  The US teams aren't the problem.

 

Do you need more examples?  Here are some:

 

DC United signed Jakovic (from the Serbian league)

Houston signed Hainault (from the Czech league)

LA Galaxy signed Jazic (from the Russian league)

Real Salt Lake signed Will (and saved him from sitting on the bench on the worst team in the Eredivisie)

Houston signed Serioux (from Unattached FC)

 

It's really hard to make the argument that there aren't any Canadians good enough to be signed when all of the above were plucked out of (relative) obscurity and all (except Will) counted as an international.

 

How does that prove me wrong in any way? Those are the Canadians already signed by MLS-teams, regardless of the international spot they take. Which Canadian players out there, not under MLS-contracts already, would be an upgrade to any MLS team, US or Canadian? 

 

 

Yes the DeJong case is a perfect example. First of all I am sure he was a player that all the Canadian clubs would be interested in but him becoming available doesn't mean that each club has room under their salary cap and/or a need for a left back/mid at the time he is available. Clubs can't just change their whole season plan because X Canadian is suddenly available. And in DeJong's case his agent had a connection with SKC management and gave them early notice he would be available so they put him on their discovery list before any of the Canadian teams knew his contract with Augsburg was going to be terminated and that he was interested in coming to MLS.

 

I would like to see more Canadian players though and think it would be best to have them domestic league wide. Whatever the work regulations of the US, I am sure if there was a will to do this by MLS there would be a way to make it work. But since it seems there is no will at the very least the CSA should be starting to increase the Canadian quota. They would need to do this slowly so it doesn't put our teams at a competitive disadvantage but increasing it to 4 next year and 5 a couple of years after should be something the teams could handle and would also give us fans and upcoming Canadian players a sign that our teams are interested in developing and playing Canadian players.

 

This is more realistic.

[Steedman]

It's a frustrating league, I mean they can take Canadian money no problems, but struggle to help the national side in anyway.

[Steedman]

Vancouver wasn't competitive last season? Montreal wasn't the season before? And again, who are the players you would like to see playing in MLS? Guys playing for the second league in Norway, Sweden, or the first league in Finland? Guys from Germanies 4th tier? Seriously, where are those players who are at least at a par with the US and international MLS-players?

 

If Canadians were domestic and these guys didn't have a contract, I could see

  Kenny Stamatopoulos, Nana Attakora, Issey Nakajima-Farran, Julian de Guzman, Lars Hirschfeld, Milan Borjan, André Hainault, Doneil Henry, Atiba Hutchinson, all being sought after by clubs in the MLS. Would they drastically improve the club? Probably not, but they would get playing time.    

[El Hombre]

But if an American club has the Canadian player on their discovery list, then the Canadian club doesn't have a chance to get the player. Same thing with Larin and the draft. No Canadian club had a legitimate chance to sign him. There are so many stupid MLS rules that prevent this from being possible for Canadian clubs. That is why equality across the league would be the easiest and best solution.

 

All of the other examples you gave were prior to Montreal or Vancouver even being in the league. I don't think those are fair examples.

 

 

Yes the DeJong case is a perfect example. First of all I am sure he was a player that all the Canadian clubs would be interested in but him becoming available doesn't mean that each club has room under their salary cap and/or a need for a left back/mid at the time he is available. Clubs can't just change their whole season plan because X Canadian is suddenly available. And in DeJong's case his agent had a connection with SKC management and gave them early notice he would be available so they put him on their discovery list before any of the Canadian teams knew his contract with Augsburg was going to be terminated and that he was interested in coming to MLS.

 

I would like to see more Canadian players though and think it would be best to have them domestic league wide. Whatever the work regulations of the US, I am sure if there was a will to do this by MLS there would be a way to make it work. But since it seems there is no will at the very least the CSA should be starting to increase the Canadian quota. They would need to do this slowly so it doesn't put our teams at a competitive disadvantage but increasing it to 4 next year and 5 a couple of years after should be something the teams could handle and would also give us fans and upcoming Canadian players a sign that our teams are interested in developing and playing Canadian players.

 

 

 

How does that prove me wrong in any way? Those are the Canadians already signed by MLS-teams, regardless of the international spot they take. Which Canadian players out there, not under MLS-contracts already, would be an upgrade to any MLS team, US or Canadian? 

 

I think you guys are missing the point I was trying to make (especially you, Shamrock).

 

The contention I was rebutting (which really pisses me off) is that there are no Canadians out there at the appropriate level to come in and take a spot on an MLS team.  This is exactly what I quoted in my post.

 

However, MLS has a pretty clear track record of not only finding Canadians  but finding some from pretty low-level leagues and signing them and they become a pretty important part of that team.  Will Johnson was sitting on the bench for the worst team in the Eredivisie and he's now captain of the Timbers.  Serioux was without a club and then became a pretty important player for Houston.  So when you sarcastically start listing the 2nd-tier Swedish league or 4th tier German league as great breeding grounds for picking out Canadian players, maybe take a moment to consider that Jakovic and Hainault both spent a bunch of time on the bench in the Serbian and Czech leagues before becoming regulars in MLS.

 

My point was not to discuss the mechanics of getting Canadian players on certain teams, but more refuting the idea that there aren't any out there to be had.

[shamrock]

My point was that, after you get the available Canadians from the international leagues, right now there aren't too many left at all. So changing rules in MLS doesn't create 5 more players for MLS-teams. Yes they did find a couple of players, but no changing the rules (especially for US teams) doesn't helpt the program a whole lot. And that was the point I made from the start. 

 

 

 

If Canadians were domestic and these guys didn't have a contract, I could see

  Kenny Stamatopoulos, Nana Attakora, Issey Nakajima-Farran, Julian de Guzman, Lars Hirschfeld, Milan Borjan, André Hainault, Doneil Henry, Atiba Hutchinson, all being sought after by clubs in the MLS. Would they drastically improve the club? Probably not, but they would get playing time.    

 

 

Seriously? Attakora, he was with 3 teams but they didn't need him. Issey was dumped by both TFC and Montreal. Hainault was with an US-based MLS teams and left (as far as I know this was his own decision. I can imagine he makes a lot more now). Julian, pff. Henry was sold!

 

So that leaves maybe Kenny (played before there even was an MLS team in Canada), Lars (dito), Milan who won't come to MLS cause he's making a lot more right now and had a start in the country of his heritage. Hutch won't come unless to get some cash after a very respectable career. 

 

Wether or not they would be counted as domestic wouldn't have matter for any of the players you mention. That goes both ways, some players are not looking to MLS at all (Borjan, Hutch for instance). 

[Barthez-Battalion]

My point was that, after you get the available Canadians from the international leagues, right now there aren't too many left at all. So changing rules in MLS doesn't create 5 more players for MLS-teams. Yes they did find a couple of players, but no changing the rules (especially for US teams) doesn't helpt the program a whole lot. And that was the point I made from the start. 

 

 

 

Seriously? Attakora, he was with 3 teams but they didn't need him. Issey was dumped by both TFC and Montreal. Hainault was with an US-based MLS teams and left (as far as I know this was his own decision. I can imagine he makes a lot more now). Julian, pff. Henry was sold!

 

So that leaves maybe Kenny (played before there even was an MLS team in Canada), Lars (dito), Milan who won't come to MLS cause he's making a lot more right now and had a start in the country of his heritage. Hutch won't come unless to get some cash after a very respectable career. 

 

Wether or not they would be counted as domestic wouldn't have matter for any of the players you mention. That goes both ways, some players are not looking to MLS at all (Borjan, Hutch for instance). 

Milan has favourited a shit ton of tweets asking him to come to MLS in the past. I'd imagine he'd love to come but the fact his teams don't want to use an Intl spot on a Canadian keeper.

[lazlo_80]

necessity is the mother of invention. Until Canadian teams NEED to find and develop Canadian talent, there's always an easier way with a plug and play foreigner even if their ceiling isn't as high.

[jpg75]

^ This.