koolvid Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 http://www.wakingthered.com/2015/2/21/8083061/eight-years-later-canadas-place-in-major-league-soccer Thought I'd post this in this section since the topic has to do heavily with the CMNT and its growth but if mods want to move it to MLS feel free to do so. Nonetheless good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'd question this bit: This has forced Canadian soccer to create League 1 Ontario in order to develop young Canadian players who are not getting an opportunity with Major League Soccer. The same can be said of USL Pro, and the new affiliates Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal have created. If MLS were not investing in Academy systems, you could make a case for that, but the reality is that if you look at the rosters of CMNT youth teams, it is the three MLS teams that are developing the most promising young players rather than leagues like L1O. The missing link that has been making it difficult to make the transition from the academy systems to MLS rosters has been the reserve teams, which have been a key weakness in the MLS development system, but that's now being catered to in USL Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If the transition from the Academy to the MLS first team roster is difficult, and looking at the numbers, it must be, I wonder if the work being done with the kids is the problem here. In TFC case, I don't know their qualifications at all, but I must say I have my doubts when I see 4 Canadians coaching the senior, the junior, the U12 and the U14 teams, and Dicchio got U13 not long after he retired from the professional game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc88 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'd question this bit: This has forced Canadian soccer to create League 1 Ontario in order to develop young Canadian players who are not getting an opportunity with Major League Soccer. The same can be said of USL Pro, and the new affiliates Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal have created. If MLS were not investing in Academy systems, you could make a case for that, but the reality is that if you look at the rosters of CMNT youth teams, it is the three MLS teams that are developing the most promising young players rather than leagues like L1O. The missing link that has been making it difficult to make the transition from the academy systems to MLS rosters has been the reserve teams, which have been a key weakness in the MLS development system, but that's now being catered to in USL Pro. I'm not sure how many players you would expect from L1O after one season? Added, the purpose of L1O is not necessarily to develop players, but give the ones who graduate from academies with nowhere to go a chance to keep playing football and not be lost in the void or give up all together. How many players around the world are able to hit their stride in their mid-20s because of developmental systems like lower divisions allowing them to keep playing outside of the first division? The reality is if you are in the USMNT system you will get multiple chances at a pro career via MLS, where Canadians often struggle once leaving a Canadian team to find somewhere to keep playing. I would also add that Sigma is in L10 and produced the #1 draft pick in MLS and has over 50 players currently in NCAA. Vaughan as well, as we saw posted recently, also play in L1O and had five players go to top NCAA programs (Maryland being one of them - a conveyor belt for MLS-ready players). I am glad to see USL Pro but surprised so many see it as some magic bullet of development where we are already counting our chickens before any games have even been played yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Since joining MLS the Whitecaps have had an academy and a reserve team! Admittedly they had both of those things before joining MLS, but this just proves how awesome MLS is. Who cares about "first team minutes"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It's pretty obvious what solution is, but reality of making it happen is issue. MLS isn't long term solution (they're not going to add more Canadian teams) for Canadian soccer, it will be legit all Canadian league where we can actually see Canadian players get first team minutes and develop their game. If you look at roster of CONCACAF teams that made to the last World Cup, at least half of them play for their domestic league. That should give you an indication how important domestic league is to national program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The MLS' contribution to the CMNT since 2007 has been underwhelming and disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The MLS' contribution to the CMNT since 2007 has been underwhelming and disappointing. Depends on what you mean by that. You could make a case for all of the following being a part of the CMNT due to their MLS careers: Will Johnson Andre Hainault Dejan Jakovic Doneil Henry Russell Teibert Jonathan Osorio Adrain Serioux Jeremy Gagnon-Lapare Maxim Tissot Ashtone Morgan Nana Attakora Kyle Bekker Ante Jazic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm not sure how many players you would expect from L1O after one season? I have been one of the most vocal critics of L1O on this board and even I agree that that is an unreasonable measure. Hell, I am only willing to start judging the MLS teams affect on the National Team now, after eight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Pro of MLS in Canada: the biggest positive from MLS is that media coverage for soccer has increase dramatically in Canada. Soccer is a lot more mainstream than it was 8 years ago. So we can at least credit MLS having a presence in Canada for increase soccer coverage in the media. If we want to see change in MLS for Canadians, then CSA at least needs to increase domestic slot so we can have more Canadian players on Canadian MLS club roster which will force their hands to develop them even more and pressure them to keep Canadian players instead of cutting them over some American journeyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The MLS' contribution to the CMNT since 2007 has been underwhelming and disappointing. What? Compared to what? The most recent full-strength game (against Jamiaca last fall) had 50% of the roster as MLS players, past or present, and that's not counting Marcel de Jong (SKC trialist), Adam Straith (failed/rejected multiple MLS trials) and Marcus Haber (not considered good enough for Whitecaps MLS). Without checking, that looks like more or greater of a percentage than the U.S. had in the World Cup this summer. This recent MLS bashing is 1/3 jingoism, 1/3 made-up bullshit and 1/4 wishful thinking. The one legitimate complaint left against MLS is the treatment of Canadians on American rosters and that's hopefully being sorted out in the new CBA, as has been reported by various sources. MLS has flat out been a godsend for Canadian soccer, and this laughable recent series of blog posts about the subject is ridiculous. We tried the NASL/homegrown league setup in the 2000's, and look where that got us, despite how many Canadians were playing at those mediocre levels. This isn't 1984 CONCACAF anymore, just having players as 'pros' at a bad level is not going to get us anywhere, just look at the CSL. We need a better class of players, playing a better class of competition (USSDA, USL, PDL, L10, MLS) at every age group. We're already seeing the Osorio's, Henry's, Teibert's, Tissot's and Adekugbe's break through, and they doing it against real competition and not just being handed places because of their nationality. This is how most countries in the world do it, and it's what will lead to any future success we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Pro of MLS in Canada: the biggest positive from MLS is that media coverage for soccer has increase dramatically in Canada. Soccer is a lot more mainstream than it was 8 years ago. So we can at least credit MLS having a presence in Canada for increase soccer coverage in the media.This is very true. And, a bit off-topic, it's a reason I'd have hope for a Canadian division: this isn't 1994, people know and care about North American club soccer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barthez-Battalion Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 This is very true. And, a bit off-topic, it's a reason I'd have hope for a Canadian division: this isn't 1994, people know and care about North American club soccer now. Tell that to corporate Canada. The talk of a league died down when it came out that no one wants to sponsor a domestic Canadian league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 From 4 players in 2006 to 24 today (if I read that graph correctly). The league has doubled and we've hextupled. And that during an 8 year period when the level of play went up substantially and Canadians being counted as international content until they got their green card. I'd say that is very good. Hopefully MLS will fix that grossly unfair treatment of Canadians this CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 @ Dub When you referenced the CSL, were you referring to the old professional CSL? I ask because that league was the only reason we almost qualified for the 1994 World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Depends on what you mean by that. You could make a case for all of the following being a part of the CMNT due to their MLS careers: Will Johnson Andre Hainault Dejan Jakovic Doneil Henry Russell Teibert Jonathan Osorio Adrain Serioux Jeremy Gagnon-Lapare Maxim Tissot Ashtone Morgan Nana Attakora Kyle Bekker Ante Jazic True to an extent. But you could also make the case that MLS is (for at least some of the players on that list) just another 2nd tier league which happens to be offering a bit more convenience of employement for the players concerned than say Scotland or Japan or Belgium or any number of other national leagues scattered around the globe. That is to say, MLS is neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_twelve Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'd love to contrast these first 8 years with Canada's place in MLS with a cup winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'd love to contrast these first 8 years with Canada's place in MLS with a cup winning team. I don't think that a Cup winning team will help the national team more at the short and middle term. Maybe in 15 years (7-8 at the youth level), it will have an effect. Carter won the slam dunk waht in 2000? And 15 years later, Canadian basketball is thriving. I don't think that if there was a year where the Impact and TFC faced each other in the Eastern Conference Final for the right to play the Whitecaps for the MLS Cup, that the national team would be better at short term. 0 Canadian internationals have played for a Canadian MLS team in the MLS Playoffs. Sure if that happened, you would have guessed that they would have played more Canadians, but I doubt that it would have changed short term much except maybe for Saputo's, Kerfoot's and MLSE's pockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffian Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hopefully MLS will fix that grossly unfair treatment of Canadians this CBA. I doubt Canadians will ever be counted as local players on US teams. There just is no reason to push for this for most teams and people in the USA. Even American fan opinion on the internet is against helping us Canadians with this problem. I think we will just have to change the rules for Canadian teams. Gradually we should increase the amount of required Canadians. We are not even at the level of required Canadians that TFC had when they entered the league. Canadian MLS teams should also remove the fact that US players count as local players and increase the amount of any international players allowed on their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_twelve Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Yes, I think the long term effects would definitely be the big gain in terms of youth development and improvement in the homegrown depth players. Yet I also imagine there would be a big spike in media and corporate attention which could have a spin off effect for the national teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm not sure how many players you would expect from L1O after one season? What I wrote was "leagues like L1O" and what I meant by that was elite provincial youth leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc88 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 L1O isn't an elite provincial youth league it's Div 3 and the only other league in Canada like it is PLSQ, which has only been around since 2012. I think the author should have said 'continue developing players...', as I think that is his point and how I understand the purpose of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 How many L1O teams are actually paying their players? There's a reason why TFC don't see it as the answer in player development terms and want to jump ship to PDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I doubt Canadians will ever be counted as local players on US teams. There just is no reason to push for this for most teams and people in the USA. Even American fan opinion on the internet is against helping us Canadians with this problem. I think we will just have to change the rules for Canadian teams. Gradually we should increase the amount of required Canadians. We are not even at the level of required Canadians that TFC had when they entered the league. Canadian MLS teams should also remove the fact that US players count as local players and increase the amount of any international players allowed on their teams. You got it. This just seems like a reality we have to live with. Canadians = International roster spots in MLS south of the border. It is also clear that unless the CSA force a change, Canadian MLS teams will not be increasing Canadian content anytime soon. There is a never-ending supply of US talent. TFC, the Whitecaps and Impact should be told change is coming and given a year's grace. Then a gradual conversion of Americans to International roster spots should take place until we're on par with the US teams. If it's considered difficult for the CSA to change Canadian content rules for Canadian teams, consider difficultly and time involved to build a national D2 league (or equivalent in NASL). The former is the lower-hanging fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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