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Since I learned that Chivas USA was purchased back by the MLS, I had an idea.

What if all the 3 Canadian teams in the MLS sale their team to the MLS or to any interested new teams in the MLS?

Since the 3 Canadian team aren't upgrading in any way the Canadian soccer, I don't know why they should stay in this league that promote only the US soccer. There's not enough Canadian players in these teams and they have bad results since their entrance. 

I dont know if CSA have authority to ask the 3 Canadian teams to leave the US Market, but it would be a good idea.

If the owner of the 3 Canadian teams want to stay involved in the MLS, they can move the team in a new US market and keep involved in their dear MLS.

Since we do that, we can create our Canadian soccer Pyramid with promotion/relegation

A 1st division (with pro and semi-pro teams) of 10 teams, with home and visitor games, so a season of 18 games with play-off and play-out.

A 2nd division (with the reserve teams of the 1st division and other semi-pro teams) of 16 to 20 teams in 2 Conferences (East and West). The best teams of each Conference should challenge at the end of the season to acces 1st Division. The last team should challenge for the relegation, to stay in the 2nd division.

After that, the divisions will be provincial local leagues, so it means semi-pro, AAA, AA, A, etc

 

We can also introduce a Canadian Cup that include all the teams affiliated to the CSA like in other countries (including the reserve teams). We can also introduce a League Cup for the 2 frist divisions (excluding the reserve teams).

We should introduce a Cup with the American teams in MLS and NASL to maintain a good level.

 

We also have the option to include, in our promotion/relegation process that the 2 last teams of the 1st division should challenge the two first teams of the 2nd division and so on.

 

We can also fix a rule that the reserve team can't be promoted in 1st division, like in Spain and that the A team and the reserve teams can't be in the same division.
In a purpose of stabilizing the 1st division, maybe the relegation from the 1st division to the 2nd division should avoided for like 3 to 5 years. 

For the beginning of the 1st division, the 10 interesting market are: Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Québec

Some other markets can be inresesting like Saskatoon, Regina, Halifax or a second team in a suburbs of the 3 big markets (Montréal, Toronto, Vancouver).

 

Each 1st division club should have a reserve team and a big structure with an Academy so we can have a lot of future canadian stars.

Some team can also have  a link with MSL teams or European teams. We can even find a way to make it attractive with an open market different with all the rules in the MLS so the investors can be interested by our league. The CSA should promote an offensive soccer.

We can take example on the CFL to have a short-term professionnal league during the summer and have enough affluence and find marketing and broadcast partners. The way to keep the players after the season should be the loan in other leagues around the world. Maybe we can find a partnership with some leagues in Asia or Africa so they can loan players in our league during the summer and we loan them players during the winter.

 

What do you think about that?

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It is the best way to qualify the national team to a World Cup, we can't reach this target by staying in the MLS.

For the money, it can be reachable by some partnership with CFL teams, foreign teams, marketing and broadcast partners

 

Pipe dream though.  

 

Let's go with that realistic NASL plan that also uses the CFL partnership.  If THAT goes through and has success, we can grow from there.

Edited by madmonte
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If your idea of a 1st division includes Semi-Pro teams, I'm glad you aren't any official position working to improve Canadian soccer.

 

Look at the old CSL. Yes, soccer culture today, in this country, is not what it was then. But, it is not where it should be. We just don't have the kind of culture that has existed in England and the rest of Europe. Your argument will probably be that this will help it build that culture, I argue that it will not. People don't support the MLS due to the level of play let alone a the sort of semi-pro league you suggest. This sort of fan culture exists in North America because we have 4 leagues that are the best in the world and fans now expect nothing more than the best, anything short of that is inadequate. Yes, this league would provide a place for our best players to play much like the old CSL, but the quality of the rest of the league would be horribleTherefore, interest would be very low.

 

In order to create a league with the high level of play fans desire you need money. Money allows you to recruit better players. Any all Canadian League would not receive the revenue through sponsorship money that is paid to american leagues and thus would not be able to recruit the same kind of talent. Take the Argos as an example a football team in a Canadian league in the biggest city in Canada yet they struggle (in terms of finances). America has a market 10 times that of Canada, so companies are willing to pay more.

 

Also, try selling the benefits of play in Saskatoon to a foreign player, I suspect they would not fancy the idea very much. Again would make it hard to recruit players.

 

The travel you suggest would kill semi-pro teams. The pyramid structure that works in England is greatly helped by yes the culture and by the fact that travel is much easier as distance are shorter. The kind of cross-country travel you suggest would surely kill any semi-pro team. We just don't have the population or the density to make this feasible. This would lead to ridiculously high costs.

 

So we have high costs, low revenue and little interest. That's not a great place to start.

 

An 18 game season is also a joke. People constantly argue that an 18 game PDL season does little to help players, explain to me how it would do anything at the professional level.

 

I do think that MLS is doing a good job with the academy system, borrowing that aspect of European soccer and applying it to a North American model is giving young players an opportunity to be trained in a professional environment. It's an opportunity I could only dream of at that age (Granted I'm still only 21 and play OSL). If a player is good enough he will make it to the main squad, it's the way things are around the world. You don't force players to play at a level they are not suited for, but at least this way we are creating professional, capable players. What we need to do is to build a league where they can be compensated well and continue to play and improve themselves, so that maybe one day they will be ready to play in MLS or abroad. Don Garber's "Canadian players cannot be domestics" is BS but he is the best man for the job at the moment, maybe in the future, the MLS will be a friendlier environment for Canadian players. For now, this concept of a Canadian league run in partnership with an American league is the best answer (aka. whatever is going on with NASL), and a regional semi pro league underneath that (this "Canadian Super League" with the L10, PLSQ and whatever other leagues are planned). This is best structure as it would create the clubs and the development infrastructure we need to start challenging in CONCACAF consistently. 

Edited by zen
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I love the initial idea by mtlsab.  While I don't think the idea is impossible, I have to agree with zen that it's likely not the best scenario for this moment in time.  Having our own league, I believe, is still a viable option. This NASL-CFL league (CAFL?) would be a great starting point and the next step in solidifying association football in this country. But even still, it'll need the time and will require baby steps.

 

Zen also does bring up a good point, and I'm surprised I haven't thought of it before, but as Canadians (having been accustomed to American professional leagues) we have come to expect nothing but the best from our teams/leagues.  So should a Canadian league ever come about, it'll require a lot of devoted and understanding fans, media, and sponsors, etc to keep the league alive and running, because it might not be comparable to other top leagues around the world for some time.

 

Anyway, all for your ideas mtlsab. Hoping one day we can be in a position to make it work.

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I dont know if CSA have authority to ask the 3 Canadian teams to leave the US Market, but it would be a good idea.

 

 

They can, ask, but they Canadian teams are under no obligation to say ok. Fundamentally if the CSA says "No, you can't play in a US league anymore" the only two means of enforcement/punishment they can lay down is refusing access to the Canadian Championship and complaining to FIFA/The USSF to help enforce their will.

 

As far as the former, the Canadian championship doesn't mean much to the MLS teams from a financial perspective. Losing them is far less of a hit then losing the MLS TV contract money, compared to another league the CSA might setup (at least for now).

 

As far as the later, who knows how FIFA/The USSF would react? FIFA isn't going to desanction MLS because of a spat between three teams and the CSA. They might fine MLS, but likely not enough for MLS to toss the the Canadian teams aside. As far as the USSF, I really don't think they would care. They'd say "3 teams is less then 25%, do whatever."

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The problem with the CFL-NASL project is that the 3 big market (Montréal, Vancouver, Toronto) won't be involved since the team is playing in MLS and the reserve team in USL Pro. Without these 3 markets, we can't have a 1st division with at least 10 teams. That's why I hope that these 3 market would be involved in a potential 1st division.

 

To answer about the fact that a semi-pro team can't play in a 1st division, I will explain what I meant with semi-pro. In some countries (like Belgium), some teams in 1st division have players with amateurs contracts, some players are working and aren't professionnal even in 1st division. I think that can happen in a 1st division of Canada because of the fact that we can't have a long term season.

 

I know that a 18 games season is short but the CFL season is short too and it's working because it's short. But the regular season games won't be the only games for the 1st division teams, a few teams will be involved in play-off and play out, all the teams will be involved in the Cups that I proposed. Like I said, the solution for the contract for the team that aren't involved in so many games is to loan the player the rest of the year.

 

About the foreing players that won't be interested to play to Saskatoon, I answer that probably a lot of players from South America and Africa would be pleased to sign in a potential 1st division, we just need to have agents related to these markets. The purpose of having a 1st division around the country is to have a championship for domestic players, not to bring only foreigners.

 

For the interest of a potential league, I can say that the attendance is decreasing in Montreal because of the bad results, it was higher before the MLS. Some other means can be used to get attendance and media interest: provincial derbies and rivalries. We should involve the provincial federations to make it attractive.

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The problem with the CFL-NASL project is that the 3 big market (Montréal, Vancouver, Toronto) won't be involved since the team is playing in MLS and the reserve team in USL Pro. Without these 3 markets, we can't have a 1st division with at least 10 teams. That's why I hope that these 3 market would be involved in a potential 1st division.

 

The upside is that it is realistic, and could succeed.  It would never be meant to be a Canadian 1st division, but rather an opposing ideal to it.  I'm still quite open to it.

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Attendance for the big 3 teams would not be the same.  Casual fans won't show up in the same numbers for, say, Toronto vs. Winnipeg.  Even if they don't know much about teams like Dallas, Colorado etc, it's still "major league".  Especially with lower budgets which I would expect.

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  • 1 month later...

What if ... The CSA purchased one USL Pro franchise and awarded that spot to the winner of the League1 Ontario / PQSL (and other leagues at that level) champ.  Essentially a play-off between the League winners to determine the best and the "prize money" is "promotion.  At the end of year 1, the holder plays in the play-off also (either two games or a small group of 3-4 teams).  Maybe after a couple of years and evaluation the CSA purchases another franchise.  Working to seed more teams into that level.

 

The effort really is to get 8 teams on the same page with the deep pockets to get a Canadian League started.  It is a dream.  The goal needs to be developing Canadian talent.

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^ What if the CSA simply stopped cock-blocking interested investors and encouraged clubs to enter ANY established league already sanctioned to play in Canada?

The CSA is not competant in running a business. They have nothing to offer as "owners" of a club or clubs. What they can do is let people with money find the best fit for their community in the four dvisions we already have.

 

The solution to player development is so simple that for some reason everyone wants to make it complicated: allow more professional clubs to compete in the marketplace and in whatever national competitions we can find sponsors for - VCup, tournament of champions, cup winners cup, whatever.

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  • 4 months later...

What do you think about it now? When you see what is goin on for the Canadian clubs....

 

If you are asking me I have to say, I have no idea what difference there is between the situation today versus six months ago.

 

If anything it seems the MLS clubs are doing spectacularly and their USL affiliates are doing well also. In fact the Thundercaps (WCFC2) had over 1,300 people attend their game yesterday even though the WWC game between Canada and Switzerland was taking place in Vancouver.

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If you are asking me I have to say, I have no idea what difference there is between the situation today versus six months ago.

 

If anything it seems the MLS clubs are doing spectacularly and their USL affiliates are doing well also. In fact the Thundercaps (WCFC2) had over 1,300 people attend their game yesterday even though the WWC game between Canada and Switzerland was taking place in Vancouver.

 

The three mls usl farm teams aren't really doing that well though, usl league average is around 3K. TFC II drew 986 for their last game and FC Montreal gets around 300 per game. Those are tickets distributed/comped totals as well with actual butts in the seats less.

 

On the field they're near the bottom of the standings, Caps II needed(or did they really?) a waiver/permission from CSA for a recent game when they didn't meet the Canadian quota.

 

 

What do you think about it now? When you see what is goin on for the Canadian clubs....

 

With the recent news popping up again about the National Canadian D1A league hopefully an all Canadian national league really comes together for 2017 and no more markets are lost to US league's in the meantime (I'm sure they won't for mls and usl and only Hamilton seems a possibility for nasl for 2016/17).

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The three USL teams are giving over fifty young Canadian players a shot at developing as pro soccer players in Canada with a stable financial structure in place to keep the whole thing going. I struggle to see a down side to that. Give it a few years, once the dream has died on the latest national league masterplan, and these teams will probably be relocated to smaller nearby cities where there is a better chance of drawing a crowd. 

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I think most would agree that the best thing for our players' development is consistent playing time at the highest level possible. I have yet to see anything from the CSA to suggest that they are capable of starting a league that is at least on par with the US leagues in this regard. 

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  • 2 years later...
On 16/12/2014 at 2:29 AM, mtlsab said:

Since I learned that Chivas USA was purchased back by the MLS, I had an idea.

What if all the 3 Canadian teams in the MLS sale their team to the MLS or to any interested new teams in the MLS?

Since the 3 Canadian team aren't upgrading in any way the Canadian soccer, I don't know why they should stay in this league that promote only the US soccer. There's not enough Canadian players in these teams and they have bad results since their entrance. 

I dont know if CSA have authority to ask the 3 Canadian teams to leave the US Market, but it would be a good idea.

If the owner of the 3 Canadian teams want to stay involved in the MLS, they can move the team in a new US market and keep involved in their dear MLS.

Since we do that, we can create our Canadian soccer Pyramid with promotion/relegation

A 1st division (with pro and semi-pro teams) of 10 teams, with home and visitor games, so a season of 18 games with play-off and play-out.

A 2nd division (with the reserve teams of the 1st division and other semi-pro teams) of 16 to 20 teams in 2 Conferences (East and West). The best teams of each Conference should challenge at the end of the season to acces 1st Division. The last team should challenge for the relegation, to stay in the 2nd division.

After that, the divisions will be provincial local leagues, so it means semi-pro, AAA, AA, A, etc

 

We can also introduce a Canadian Cup that include all the teams affiliated to the CSA like in other countries (including the reserve teams). We can also introduce a League Cup for the 2 frist divisions (excluding the reserve teams).

We should introduce a Cup with the American teams in MLS and NASL to maintain a good level.

 

We also have the option to include, in our promotion/relegation process that the 2 last teams of the 1st division should challenge the two first teams of the 2nd division and so on.

 

We can also fix a rule that the reserve team can't be promoted in 1st division, like in Spain and that the A team and the reserve teams can't be in the same division.
In a purpose of stabilizing the 1st division, maybe the relegation from the 1st division to the 2nd division should avoided for like 3 to 5 years. 

For the beginning of the 1st division, the 10 interesting market are: Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, Victoria, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Québec

Some other markets can be inresesting like Saskatoon, Regina, Halifax or a second team in a suburbs of the 3 big markets (Montréal, Toronto, Vancouver).

 

Each 1st division club should have a reserve team and a big structure with an Academy so we can have a lot of future canadian stars.

Some team can also have  a link with MSL teams or European teams. We can even find a way to make it attractive with an open market different with all the rules in the MLS so the investors can be interested by our league. The CSA should promote an offensive soccer.

We can take example on the CFL to have a short-term professionnal league during the summer and have enough affluence and find marketing and broadcast partners. The way to keep the players after the season should be the loan in other leagues around the world. Maybe we can find a partnership with some leagues in Asia or Africa so they can loan players in our league during the summer and we loan them players during the winter.

 

What do you think about that?

Who remember when I posted that a few years ago!. Now its gonna happen!!!

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