Levi Oakey Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Just like the title says. USL Pro is attempting to go official D2. http://www.recklesschallenge.net/usl-pro-to-apply-for-division-2-status-with-ussf/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Link doesn't seem to work for me. If I understand D2 vs D3 correctly, I believe there are much stricter financial standards to meeting D2 status, ones that USL Pro did not want to meet back in 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 With MLS creating their own farm teams in USL Pro, I wouldn't be surprised to see USL Pro being granted 2nd division status. Would this be death of NASL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 With MLS creating their own farm teams in USL Pro, I wouldn't be surprised to see USL Pro being granted 2nd division status. Would this be death of NASL? Why would MLS want or need to put more finacial resources into D3 usl pro to attempt to get D2 Status? The usl pro third division is now their farm team/affiliate league and fits their needs as it is. Most usl pro teams don't meet the financial standards of D2 and they wont in 2017 as well and never will. This is simply big BS talk from usl pro who still has an inferiority complex re the NASL and a chip on their shoulder.They see the NASL growing each year, now getting more high profile players, more stature, and higher profile ownership again, and a coming team in Los Angelas. They want to pretend they'll be something they won't be but will remain D3 and MLS's Minor league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Just like the title says. USL Pro is attempting to go official D2. http://www.recklesschallenge.net/usl-pro-to-apply-for-division-2-status-with-ussf/ D3 Usl Pro doesn't and won't meet the stricter financial standard for D2 and if standards change they will go even higher not lower. Their attempt will fail if they really do try but they won't, this is just sales talk, pure bs and it wont materialize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Why would MLS want or need to put more finacial resources into D3 usl pro to attempt to get D2 Status? The usl pro third division is now their farm team/affiliate league and fits their needs as it is. Most usl pro teams don't meet the financial standards of D2 and they wont in 2017 as well and never will. This is simply big BS talk from usl pro who still has an inferiority complex re the NASL and a chip on their shoulder.They see the NASL growing each year, now getting more high profile players, more stature, and higher profile ownership again, and a coming team in Los Angelas. They want to pretend they'll be something they won't be but will remain D3 and MLS's Minor league. MLS wants to hurt NASL so helping USL Pro gain 2nd division status would hurt NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Why exactly would this be the end of the NASL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 MLS wants to hurt NASL so helping USL Pro gain 2nd division status would hurt NASL. Do you seriously believe that? Or is this just the usual usl bs and nothing will actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Why exactly would this be the end of the NASL? Because cities who want a professional soccer club would want to join MLS (as their first choice), but if they can't make it in MLS, then they will go to option B which will be 2nd division soccer. If USL Pro is granted 2nd division status, then NASL would have tougher time attracting cities and investor to join their league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Right, so if, and that's still an if, USL Pro is granted Div 2 status, the 11 NASL teams (soon to be 12 as they are rumoured to announce LA soon) will just fold up shop because they have no hope of competing with MLS and USL Pro? Sounds kind of far fetched to me. Of course, I did not anticipate USL Pro becoming a defacto MLS reserve league a few years ago so who knows. Anywho, I've dug up the USSF standards on the following website. http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?page_id=5449 . Here's what I can decipher as standards between NASL and USL Pro: - Stadiums: Div 2 stadiums must have a capacity of 5000, and a lease no later than 120 days prior to the start of the season. Div 3 stadiums must have a capacity of 1000, no mention of a lease - Bond: Div 2 requires a bond of $750k before each season, Div 3 requires a bond of $250k before each season - Ownership: Div 2 principal ownership must have a net worth of $20 mil minimum. Div 3 principal ownership must have a net worth of $10 mil minimum - Both leagues must demonstrate a financial capacity to operate teams for 3 years Regarding the stadiums, 7 of 21 USL Pro stadiums do not currently meet 5000 capacity with 2 TBD. Edmonton is not meeting Div 2 standards based on capacity either. I can't dig up much on ownership net worth, but for those teams that are not MLS reserve teams, could this be a big question mark? To me, USL Pro has been much less stable than their NASL counterparts. 9 teams have folded, and they are expanding by 12 this year. That is an extraordinary number of new teams, although having 6 of those as straight MLS reserve teams makes it a little less ridiculous. By comparison, NASL has expanded much slower, and 1 team has folded in 4 years, although that may be 2 in 2016 if they cannot find an owner for Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It seems like MLS is literally going after every possible avenue to get rid of NASL. Fortunately, I can see this working positively for Canada. If NASL ends up losing interest in the US (or even out-competed), it could end with them giving up there and becoming a Canada-only league. If they sense a better environment for their stability in Canada, I'd love to see them come. MLS, meanwhile, is making a lot of odd moves. In a few years, perhaps they'll no longer value (or want) their Canadian franchises? Or, the Canadian teams may end up losing faith if they see MLS heading down a shaky path. At some point, I would personally love to see TFC/Impact/Whitecaps sell their franchises to American cities (at huge profit, relative to the amount they paid to get into MLS), and have enough faith to join an NASL-style Canadian league. It can be stable, with the big three cities anchoring it for a few years. It's wishfull thinking, and I'm not sure how far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ClaytonA Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Who needs stability for at least a little while when as history shows soccer has been exemplary at in-fighting and self-flagellation ultimately leading to its demise. Well, what do you mean - it`s Bus 101 that monopolies are the best market form (for economic rents or above average profits), so destroy any and all competition - even if it`s not real competition since it`s D2. Meanwhile people on this forum bash the CFL...but hey if it`s U.S.-based it must be bigger, better, more worthwhile, obviously more sustainable since they`re better at governance, and they`ve never screwed us as a separate, smaller neighbouring country in the past - oh wait.. We can only dream R & W - look at how the original CSL ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It sounds like the plan might be to actually have the USL Pro break into a Div 2 and Div 3 with promotion and relegation. Teams that can't qualify for Div 2 will always be stuck in Div 3. Interesting concept. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Because cities who want a professional soccer club would want to join MLS (as their first choice), but if they can't make it in MLS, then they will go to option B which will be 2nd division soccer. If USL Pro is granted 2nd division status, then NASL would have tougher time attracting cities and investor to join their league. This line of thinking doesn't make sense. Lets say that usl pro gets D2 sanctioning by meeting all the D2 requirements-this doesnt make it tougher to attract cities and investors for the NASL as its already established as D2 since its rebirth four years ago but usl pro would have a tougher time as its investors would now have to meet the tougher D2 financial standards and operating costs. This is one of the reasons usl pro as D3 has had an easier time getting investors to start up expansion teams as it requires less money to start and run a team in D3. If a new prospective owner wants to start a D2 club they would choose the already established D2 NASL with teams like the New York Cosmos, Tampa Bay Rowdies, etc with higher attendance levels, more experience at D2, and higher profile players, higher profile league etc not a D3 league newly coming in as a D2 league where they would have to meet the same requirements and $ to start and operate it and is playing catch up now to the established D2 NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 This doesn't seem to be a good move for anyone involved, USL, NASL, MLS or soccer in Canada or the US. The only thing that would make sense is if the MLS was trying to do this to crush NASL. I think that would be very short sighted and not really in the best interests of MLS but I wouldn't put it beyond the type of move Garber and the other MLS directors might try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 This doesn't seem to be a good move for anyone involved, USL, NASL, MLS or soccer in Canada or the US. The only thing that would make sense is if the MLS was trying to do this to crush NASL. I think that would be very short sighted and not really in the best interests of MLS but I wouldn't put it beyond the type of move Garber and the other MLS directors might try. how would it not be in the interest of MLS? NASL has made its intention clear to be a rival of MLS. MLS crushes a competitor for monopoly of soccer in NA in partnership with USL. smart business decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 NASL has made its intention clear to be a rival of MLS. Have NASL ever mentioned this? I've always had the impression that they are happy being a div 2 league, below MLS. I suspect MLS has still not gotten over the fact that NASL refused to be their farm league a few years ago, before USL-PRO agreed to it. They've been bent on crushing them since. Whether it's an MLS-2 or an MLS-directed USL-PRO in div 2, they want to be in control. I think it's weak that the USSF stays out of this. A strong div 2 is important, and I find MLS is being allowed to slowly crush NASL purely in pursuit of a monopoly. In any case, I like how NASL operates and would love to see them grow their presence in Canada, as I mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Have NASL ever mentioned this? I've always had the impression that they are happy being a div 2 league, below MLS. I suspect MLS has still not gotten over the fact that NASL refused to be their farm league a few years ago, before USL-PRO agreed to it. They've been bent on crushing them since. Whether it's an MLS-2 or an MLS-directed USL-PRO in div 2, they want to be in control. I think it's weak that the USSF stays out of this. A strong div 2 is important, and I find MLS is being allowed to slowly crush NASL purely in pursuit of a monopoly. In any case, I like how NASL operates and would love to see them grow their presence in Canada, as I mentioned before. http://www.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/usa/story/north-american-soccer-league-bids-to-overcome-burden-of-history-112113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 The USL brings a lot to the table for US and potentially Canadian soccer. This move makes a lot of sense. Here's some of the things the USL is currently doing: - Runs the second highest level for Women's Soccer, which included a number of Canadian teams and has a number of Women's players who are the stars of their national teams. - Runs one of the largest Sub-20 youth programs (USSDA is currently considered the highest tier of youth soccer). The Super-Y league also now has a women's program as well. There are rumours that USL is trying to work something out with the USSDA as well. - Runs the USL PDL which continues to have some of the top amateur players in the country and be a direct feed into MLS and this recently expanded with the PDL + which will extend the PDL season. - In 2013 they also purchased MISL which means the run the largest indoor soccer league in NA. Bringing Div 2 to the table is the logical next step and if NASL is removed you'll actually see an English style "Football League" with MLS playing the role of the Premiership. USL will run teams in every division below MLS and also will include the women's game. There is actually a very good chance that this means we could see promotion and relegation in these lower tiers or at least the ability for successful clubs (off-field) to move through the USL system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The USL brings a lot to the table for US and potentially Canadian soccer. - In 2013 they also purchased MISL which means the run the largest indoor soccer league in NA. Bringing Div 2 to the table is the logical next step and if NASL is removed Usl handled MISL so poorly that most of its teams decided to leave it and join PASL and then usl pathetically pretended after the fact to expel them after they already had left, a very poor example. Usl has lost quite a few teams in the last few years, most recently Dayton the last week or two ago, not too mention their pathetic attempt at competing with NASL in Tampa Bay where the Usl pro team lasted one year and had an average of a few hundred a game in 2013. Usl has an inferiority complex re the NASL after some of its teams split from them and created the D2 NASL who wanted to create a better D2 league with higher standards - standards the Usl couldn't and didn't want to meet so they went D3 instead. Thus they are talking big to try and stay relevant with the NASL garnering so much more press with a coming team in a major media market like LA and international coverage on the Raul signing. Keeping them and their hands off Canadian pro soccer should continue to be of major importance to the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 how would it not be in the interest of MLS? NASL has made its intention clear to be a rival of MLS. MLS crushes a competitor for monopoly of soccer in NA in partnership with USL. smart business decision That is precisely how MLS might think and precisely why it is not good for them. MLS is run by businessmen who think it would be good if they control the whole soccer pyramid, run it like a business and get rid of any competition. I think what is actually good for MLS especially since they are competing not only in the US but globally is if the North American soccer pyramid is healthy, good players are being produced and secondary markets have good teams that are not farm teams even if they are division 2. The players who develop well in the division 2 will move up but the teams should not be reserve or development teams for MLS. I don't think giving MLS management control over the North American soccer pyramid is the best way to develop players and interest in the sport. I will also say that I have experienced the Impact in USL, NASL and MLS. While I am happy we are in MLS since it is the highest level, the league I preferred as far as how it was run and how they treat the fans, players and soccer tradition was NASL. USL was run in an amateur and not very transparent way while MLS seems to be run by a bunch of bean counters who also never let you forget it is an American league with American values. If the level of play were the same and the teams/cities of a similar interest I would be happy for the Impact to return to NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It seems like MLS is literally going after every possible avenue to get rid of NASL. Why? Why should they care? Why can't NASL be happy as a succesful D2? Why can't the USL be happy running a great program at the D3&4 levels? Why do they have to keep over-reaching and screwing soccer around?!??! Sweet mother of God why can't soccer people in the US (and Canada) get on the same page where everyone wins?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think MLS is just using USL to bring NASL back to the table. They don't like being brushed off like they were a few years back. MLS can always steal the best cities from NASL as they have in the past and leave NASL with the lower attendance cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think MLS is just using USL to bring NASL back to the table. Sorry, what table? What are MLS and NASL negotiating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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