Groundwork For Canadian Regional D3 Leagues

[Tuscan]

Had a meeting with Dave Nutt, Tech Director for SSA. He showed me the info he just presented to SSA Membership (all districts ex. S'toon Youth, and entities ex.ASTRA Academy) that outlines how the Canadian D3 regional league is going to take shape. All of this is publicly visible at http://sasksoccer.com/page.php?page_id=58956 (Dave is about to add the graphics outlining how things will work across Prairies). Essentially, there will be programs put in place to create an environment where players who want to train towards becoming a pro athlete will be able to do so with a pathway from their youth club to the regional D3 league and continuing upwards towards pro clubs and the national teams. The D3 league's working title is the Prairie High Performance League, which definitely needs to change cuz that sounds more like a program offered than a competitive league (I prefer Prairie Super League). There will be D3 teams set up in Calgary, Edmonton, Alberta North, Alberta South, Saskatoon, Regina, Saskatchewan North, Saskatchewan South, Winnipeg, Manitoba (excluding Winnipeg), and Thunder Bay. Games would be played like League 1 Ontario does (central location for all games for all teams that particular match day) except rather than 1 location every time there'd be 2 locations (one east and one west) so teams couldn't get butt hurt over having to travel more than others. Also, there is the prospect northern US cities might come on board as USSF isn't doing anything for the Dakotas, Montana, and northern Minnesota. 

 

This doesn't do justice to how Dave explained it to me last night, but it covers the basics to the point where people on here can now jump to conclusions and freak out about it without knowing all the facts. Fuck why do I even bother?

[BuzzAndSting]

This doesn't do justice to how Dave explained it to me last night, but it covers the basics to the point where people on here can now jump to conclusions and freak out about it without knowing all the facts. Fuck why do I even bother?

 

Hahaha... Awesome Tuscan!

 

I for one think this sounds like a great idea but queue the naysayers.

[Oranje]

Thanks for the info. I'd like to see 1-2 teams in the +1M centres, casts a larger net. 

[shermanator]

Great stuff, thanks for the heads up. Calgary Callies FTW (if I understand this right)!

[An Observer]

Interesting idea. Makes a lot of sense. The only thing I will rip apart is that Sask should only start with teams in Regina and Saskatoon. They would barely have the players to cover those 2 sides no matter 4. Based on where the players are coming from, I would start withi 4 sides in Alberta (likely 2 each in Calgary and Edmonton), 2 in Sask, 2 or 3 in Manitoba and one in thunder bay. That would give you 7 or 8 sides to start with and that is plenty in my opinion.

[Lord Bob]

This would be terrific.

[baulderdash77]

Interesting idea. Makes a lot of sense. The only thing I will rip apart is that Sask should only start with teams in Regina and Saskatoon. They would barely have the players to cover those 2 sides no matter 4. Based on where the players are coming from, I would start withi 4 sides in Alberta (likely 2 each in Calgary and Edmonton), 2 in Sask, 2 or 3 in Manitoba and one in thunder bay. That would give you 7 or 8 sides to start with and that is plenty in my opinion.

 

I think that's a reasonable plan.  2 teams in both Calgary, Edmonton & Manitoba plus one in Regina, Saskatoon and Thunder Bay.  9 teams is probably enough for both a league and also the talent levels for that part of the country and it's a huge part of the country.  I don't think there's any other centers that would support a team from a talent concentration perspective.

[baulderdash77]

The Thunder Bay team presumably would be the Chill moving into the new Canadian league right? 

[Soccerpro]

The Thunder Bay team presumably would be the Chill moving into the new Canadian league right?

That's one hell of a drive from Edmonton to T-Bay.

[Tuscan]

The Thunder Bay team presumably would be the Chill moving into the new Canadian league right?

The Chill are U23 so it'd probably be a team under the PDL or else the PDL side would straight up move to the new league.

[Tuscan]

That's one hell of a drive from Edmonton to T-Bay.

The way Dave explained it is every match day there would be a pair of "central locations" selected for the matches where teams would go. One central location would be in the west part of the league geography and one would be in the east part of the league geography. It would be purposely set up so that during regular season league play Edmonton and Calgary would never have to travel to Thunder Bay and vice versa. Theoretically if Thunder Bay hosted the D3 National Championship (which I assume would be like the Memorial Cup) then theyiht have to. I suggested to Dave that each regional league should be set up in a centralized costs structure so travel couldn't sink any one team. He agrees.

[Soccerpro]

How is this a step up from PDL? Take Calgary foothills, they already have the complete development model with a PDL team. Calgary, winnipeg and Thunder Bay already have PDL squads, while Edmonton has a higher level pro team. Lower travel times I suppose.

[Raven]

When is this supposed to tentatively start?

Off Topic - this would leave BC and the Maritimes, any news from these regions regarding D3?

[Levi Oakey]

This is fantastic news. Congrats to the Prairie provinces for getting this ready.  

[Lord Bob]

How is this a step up from PDL? Take Calgary foothills, they already have the complete development model with a PDL team. Calgary, winnipeg and Thunder Bay already have PDL squads, while Edmonton has a higher level pro team. Lower travel times I suppose.

PDL's a youth league that plays a limited number of games a season. Semi-professional open age with a full season will doubtless include graduates from PDL.

[baulderdash77]

I think eventually the plan is to absorb the PDL teams into the regional D3.  At the lower levels Canada doesn't want to outsource it's development to the US.  Once there's high level regional development league in all the areas the PDL won't be part of the equation anymore.  You can have the players keep their amateur status by not drawing a salary.

[baulderdash77]

When is this supposed to tentatively start?

Off Topic - this would leave BC and the Maritimes, any news from these regions regarding D3?

 

Remember that the long term plan is to build something like the CHL but for soccer.  I suspect the Maritimes will join the PLSQ similar to the QMJHL. 

 

For BC maybe there will be a push to bring up the PCSL as BC's equivalent.  I think that's the natural end point of this.

 

4 Regional D3 leagues.  League1 Ontario, PLSQ, PCSL and Prairie Super League.  The 4 champions from each league can compete in a national D3 championship.  I don't want to dream in Technicolor too much but if this was the feeder system to the NASL & MLS then we would have a really well layed out pyramid.

[davey_twelve]

Thanks for posting Tuscan, glad to see soccer moving forward in my new home town. Can't wait to start coaching!

 

A Prairie division with 10 teams should be feasible by the time things get organized, Alberta should be able to support 5 teams.

[Blackdude]

Remember that the long term plan is to build something like the CHL but for soccer.  I suspect the Maritimes will join the PLSQ similar to the QMJHL. 

 

I don't see it. Soccer is small in Eastern Quebec, and it's rare to see a team in the LSEQ (The Quebec national amateur division) Last year, there was one team (out of about 175) from East of Québec City, and it was in Rimouski. I think it would be suicide to do something like that. If a team from Bathurst would join PLSQ right now, their shortest trip would take right now more than 8 hours. Maritimes are better creating their own league than joining PLSQ for all, IMO.

[Soccerpro]

Maritimes had their own amatuer league a few years ago. It didnt last long. No one wanted to drive, especially Halifax teams. No chance of a league happening there, especially when all the players never get any exposure to higher level scouts like the rest of Canada.

[baulderdash77]

Maritimes had their own amatuer league a few years ago. It didnt last long. No one wanted to drive, especially Halifax teams. No chance of a league happening there, especially when all the players never get any exposure to higher level scouts like the rest of Canada.

 

It's likely that Atlantic Canada can only support 2 or possibly 3 teams in any rate just on distance, participation levels and population.  The population is the problem so there will never be a league based in Atlantic Canada. 

[Tuscan]

If you model the Atlantic Canada - Quebec combined league the same way you would the proposed structure of the Prairie Super League (man I'm going to buy that .ca domain name and hold it hostage now mwuahahahahaha) then I think you could have it work out. Basically it would have the Quebec teams play each other more often and the Atlantic teams play each other more often, and centralized locations (probably switching between Montreal and Quebec City, Halifax and Fredericton/Moncton/Saint John) hopefully because costs would be centralized there would be less draw back. I think Dave said initially costs wouldn't be much different than what elite players pay right now ($2500 - $3000 per season) but they would want to first get the league established then really push hard to get central sponsons to try and bring down the cost of entry barrier. Democary would be built into the league, with Mont Pete and Mont Vic no doubt laying the groundwork for the growth of the league. Basically, if you can get it established in major centers and show cost controls, it will look less risky to smaller centers and will show them how to formalize to meet the needs of the league. Formalization, in my opinion, is one of the main goals of a D3 league. I say this in reference to the need to formalize and standardize the practices of youth elite development across the country.

 

An interesting point Dave brought up is how the Whitecaps have created satellite academy programs across Western Canada. Saskatoon has the Whitecaps Academy Saskatchewan. When it comes to the D3 league, would the Whitecaps Academy be the team that would enter, or should it be a separate entity to WAS or how would it work? Same thing in Edmonton, would it be the FCE Academy as one of the teams, or a separate entity? There's a lot of details that need to get ironed out still.

[zen]

I think Dave said initially costs wouldn't be much different than what elite players pay right now ($2500 - $3000 per season) but they would want to first get the league established then really push hard to get central sponsons to try and bring down the cost of entry barrier.

 

Are you saying they intend on charging players to play in this Prairie Super League? That would not be a true D3 League, that wouldn't even be a D4 league as they don't charge players to play PDL. Or were you saying that is the cost to teams.

[DontPanic]

Great post Jeff. Super interesting news and a great step forward for soccer in Canada when (not if) this gets up to speed.

[ted]

This doesn't do justice to how Dave explained it to me last night, but it covers the basics to the point where people on here can now jump to conclusions and freak out about it without knowing all the facts. Fuck why do I even bother?

You bother because you still have hope, as I do, that we can build a better National Team by improving professional soccer in this country. Thanks.

Now I will proceed to offer pointed criticism of this proposal as presented here. I hope that any conclusions I reach are thoughtful rather than hasty and while I am disappointed in this proposal I would not characterize my reaction as “freaking out”.

 

there will be programs put in place to create an environment where players who want to train towards becoming a pro athlete will be able to do so with a pathway from their youth club to the regional D3 league and continuing upwards towards pro clubs and the national teams.

The rational for this proposal is basically sound. The only problem I have here is the usual inflation of importance and general confusion of soccer administrators, commentators and fans around the purposes and regulatory definitions of the division system as promulgated by FIFA.

A D3 league is made up of pro clubs. It is only an intermediary step insofar as it can be what people like to call “semi-pro”. D3 teams can play with fully professional players or part-time professionals. The base criteria for a D3 club, what differentiates it from an amateur club, is that players are paid to play rather than paying to play. I know I am a broken-record on this issue but it is crucial that we build a complete pyramid. We must have a good senior amateur (D4) clubs and a strong, healthy D3 system. Understanding the difference is a requirement if we are to make this work.

To restate: players in a real, effective D3 are ALREADY part of the professional game. No matter how little they are paid they must see themselves as professionals and be treated as such on and off the field or the whole scheme is pointless.

 

Games would be played like League 1 Ontario does (central location for all games for all teams that particular match day) except rather than 1 location every time there'd be 2 locations (one east and one west) so teams couldn't get butt hurt over having to travel more than others.

While the above was a philosophical objection here we have a very practical objection. If this is true we are not talking about a league but rather a series of tournaments. If you do not play games home and away you are not in a league. If local fans cannot see their home team play at home you do not have a league.

This is clearly not a professional operation designed to introduce players to professional conditions. It is simply a linked series of showcase tournaments that fans and media will ignore.

 

Also, there is the prospect northern US cities might come on board as USSF isn't doing anything for the Dakotas, Montana, and northern Minnesota. 

Wait, what?!?! So I get pushback on USL Pro, an actual D3 league, because it crosses the border but this new amateur league can take US clubs and is the answer to our developmental problems?

Once again I am forced to object to something I want to support. Stop pretending that this is a D3 and I think they have a great idea. This would be a great training opportunity and showcase for amateur players hoping to make the pro ranks including USL Pro.

Pretending it is a D3 and further muddying the waters with fans, media and sponsors thus making life difficult for the real D3 clubs in the country is, IMO, a despicable action by people who should know better.