2014-15 TFC Offseason

[shermanator]

The more I think about the Altidore + $$$ / Defore swap, the more I like it. Defoe was never going to return, and they got back someone who should be motivated to put up some goals and get his career back on track. I think if Altidore bags 10+ goals, then he's the right guy.

 

Up top it looks like the Reds now have Altidore, Gilberto, Findley, Dike and Hamilton. That is some decent depth, without a real high end striker. I haven't heard whether Moore is coming back so I've excluded him. I'm not a fan of the Findley acquisition and I thought Dike played well when not injured.

 

What this means for Hamilton is that he will be on the USL team for the duration of the year, barring injuries. If he can start and bag goals consistently, that's not a bad thing for a 19 year old to be doing.

[Obinna]

I think Sunderland are the ones who really scored the slam dunk in this deal.

They get rid of Altidore, get a significant upgrade in Defoe, and keep him out of the hands of their relegation stuggling rivals. Sure, they have to pay TFC a fee for the difference in Altidore and Defoe's value, but so what? It's like buying Defoe at a bargin and ridding themselves of a striker who has virtually no goal production and a sinking market value. In fact, Sunderland were smart enough to recognize that they could use Altidore as leverage for Defoe, so good business on their part. None of Defoe's admirers were in this position, so good for them for recognizing his value as an American and capitalizing on it. Sunderland get an A+

For TFC, I would give a B. They made the absoulte best out of a bad situation, which they created.

The best scenario would have been a happy Defoe scoring goals with easy next season, but TFC shot themselves in the foot by firing the man who was the biggest influence in bringing him to Toronto. If the club was not truely committed to Nelsen they shouldn't have brought in Defoe in the first place. It looks like they saved face on the surface, but for me the Defoe era concludes at a net loss once you consider the time and effort wasted.

As for what I think of Altidore in a TFC shirt. Hmm..well I would much prefer Defoe obviosuly, but I still expect Altidore to come in, find his feet quickly, and score at least 10 goals, bare minimum. At 25 years old, I am also hoping he is a lot less injury prone than Defoe. His 11 goals were nice but if you're only going to be fit enough to play 19 games, what's the point? Anyways, Altidore is better than the English and Sunderland fans give him credit for. He's been dreadful in the EPL but as someone pointed out, Sunderland has been dreadful as a whole. It's no accident he's scored about 25 goals in 70ish games for tbe USMNT. That includes goals against some solid competiton as well, such as Italy, Bosnia, Nigeria, Mexico(probably). If he simply switched clubs in the EPL could have seen him being as effective as Victor Anichebe of West Brom, a Nigerian striker with similar characteristics who obviously found the righ situation and is having a decent season, after some tough years at Everton where he had little to no impact. Sometimes a player is just not a good fit for a club, and I think that is the case here. I just hope Toronto got a fair amount of money in return. Being American, I can see the MLS overvaluing Altidore, but then again, his value has plunged much further than warrented in my opinion, so it will probably even out.

Finally, the problem I do have with Altidore coming in is that we have a similar player in Dike. Secondly, would TFC have ever considered Altidore if they weren't in the mess? Not likely. So again, if they fired Nelsen after the 2013 season, used the Defoe money to bring in an equay accomplished player AND a new coach, I think they'd be much much better off.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Looks like on Twitter that Straith is negotiating with two CDN MLS clubs. My guess is Impact and TFC. Impact are passing on him and according to Dave Rowaan he probably won't sign. Apparently he's demanding too much. He hasn't had a club since what? May? Should be thankful people are giving him a contract at all.

[baulderdash77]

I think the Altidore & Gilberto combination could be a good one for us.  I'm fairly confident they will score over 20 goals together if we keep Gilberto.  They could be our most productive attacking combination that we've had.

 

I don't know what everyone thinks about the Giovinco rumours?  The Atomic Ant could be a fantastic player to watch with his incredible ball skills.  I hope that he doesn't get pushed around in MLS as it's more physical than Series A; but with his skill set he'll be drawing fouls like crazy.

 

Hopefully they open up that long rumoured 4th DP position so that we can sign Giovinco and keep Gilberto.  A lineup with Altidore, Gilberto up front with Bradley and Giovinco giving service could really be a force in MLS.

[Oranje]

Looks like on Twitter that Straith is negotiating with two CDN MLS clubs. My guess is Impact and TFC. Impact are passing on him and according to Dave Rowaan he probably won't sign. Apparently he's demanding too much. He hasn't had a club since what? May? Should be thankful people are giving him a contract at all.

I doubt he was making much in 3.Liga so I wouldn't be surprised if he was being lowballed thus "demanding too much"

[Obinna]

lineup with Altidore, Gilberto up front with Bradley and Giovinco giving service could really be a force in MLS.

 

I think JDG should make a TFC comeback and grab the DM spot. Altidore and Gilberto up top, Giovinco as the 10, Bradley as an 8 where he belongs, and Jules as the 6. Unstoppable.

[baulderdash77]

Actually looking at how the USMNT lines up with success they played their best in either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-2.  In either case Bradley is their CAM and Altidore is either the single striker or paired with Dempsey (Dempsey otherwise lines up on the left).  Bradley and Altidore play so well together and it's clear that Bradley's natural position is CAM and not DM or CM that we played him last year.

 

That makes me wonder what we're planning on doing with Giovinco.  He plays the same position as our best player.  That makes me thing of another thing and that is that we don't really have the holding DM needed to play a 4-2-3-1 perfectly or the 4-1-3-2.  Collen Warner is really the best guy for one of those roles.  That's unless we're willing to unleash Jackson as a DM and hope he doesn't red card every game when we tell him to play destroyer and he takes it literally.

[baulderdash77]

No Wingers Obinna?  That's a pretty narrow formation.  I think the only way that Giovinco works with Bradley is if you played 4-1-4-1 and them as the CM in that formation.

 

Actually JDG would be a nearly perfect 6 for TFC to pair with Bradley.  Ironically without the DP pressure his 2nd time around could be very good.

 

In any rate maybe the way that we're going we will have to sell off Gilberto because I don't think he fits in with the Bradley & Altidore combination.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Actually looking at how the USMNT lines up with success they played their best in either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-2.  In either case Bradley is their CAM and Altidore is either the single striker or paired with Dempsey (Dempsey otherwise lines up on the left).  Bradley and Altidore play so well together and it's clear that Bradley's natural position is CAM and not DM or CM that we played him last year.

 

That makes me wonder what we're planning on doing with Giovinco.  He plays the same position as our best player.  That makes me thing of another thing and that is that we don't really have the holding DM needed to play a 4-2-3-1 perfectly or the 4-1-3-2.  Collen Warner is really the best guy for one of those roles.  That's unless we're willing to unleash Jackson as a DM and hope he doesn't red card every game when we tell him to play destroyer and he takes it literally.

What are you talking about? The US' success had been Bradley in a DM position with Dempsey behind Altidore. Their problems began when Bradley was moved up the pitch and Klinsmann got a boner for it. He isn't a CAM by trade at all and he doesn't like playing there.

[baulderdash77]

Check again Barthez.  They've played lots of formations but Beckerman and Jermaine Jones are their primary DM's. 

 

They played lots of 4-4-2 diamond with Jermaine Jones as the DM and Bradley advanced forward and Altidore and Dempsey at striker.  They play 4-2-3-1 with Beckerman and Jones at DM, Bradley at AM and Altidore at stiker and Dempsey at left wing.  They also play 4-1-3-2 with Beckerman or Jones at DM and Bradley at AM too.

 

Bradley rarely every plays DM recently for the USMNT.

[Barthez-Battalion]

Check again Barthez.  They've played lots of formations but Beckerman and Jermaine Jones are their primary DM's. 

 

They played lots of 4-4-2 diamond with Jermaine Jones as the DM and Bradley advanced forward and Altidore and Dempsey at striker.  They play 4-2-3-1 with Beckerman and Jones at DM, Bradley at AM and Altidore at stiker and Dempsey at left wing.  They also play 4-1-3-2 with Beckerman or Jones at DM and Bradley at AM too.

 

Bradley rarely every plays DM recently for the USMNT.

Dude. I've been watching US games for years. Bradley has been played as a CAM recently and the US as a result has struggled. He played there at the WC and was terrible. Bradley has said he doesn't like playing there and prefers playing deeper. Klinsmann tihnks otherwise and many US fans are pulling their hair out because he won't move Bradley back to DM. It all started in that Mexico friendly in April of last year where Zavala shit the bed in marking Bradley and as a result he ran rampant over them. It was after when better teams just started crowding him where he was exposed as a poor #10. Bradley needs room to operate. TFC doesn't use him as a ten either. TFC doesn't use an attacking midfielder at all. I think they tried Oso there early on but then just paired him with Bradley in a flat 4-4-2.

[baulderdash77]

In the last 18 months the USNT hasn't played Bradley as a DM, that's what I'm saying.  Fans of the team may like to think of him as a DM but they have played him as either an 8 or a 10 in the last 18 months.  The 4-4-2 they ran with Bradley and Jones both playing 8 was a disaster and they scrapped it and since then he's played in an advanced position ever since (mostly because Jones & Bradley didn't cover for each other well).

 

Bradley may say he wants to play backed up a bit but he probably is a true box to box guy and playing DM doesn't play to his playmaking strengths.  We're certainly not paying him the money that we're paying him to be a destroyer back there.

[Barthez-Battalion]

In the last 18 months the USNT hasn't played Bradley as a DM, that's what I'm saying.  Fans of the team may like to think of him as a DM but they have played him as either an 8 or a 10 in the last 18 months.  The 4-4-2 they ran with Bradley and Jones both playing 8 was a disaster and they scrapped it and since then he's played in an advanced position ever since (mostly because Jones & Bradley didn't cover for each other well).

 

Bradley may say he wants to play backed up a bit but he probably is a true box to box guy and playing DM doesn't play to his playmaking strengths.  We're certainly not paying him the money that we're paying him to be a destroyer back there.

He's not a destroyer. Bradley is more in the Yaya Toure/Arturo Vidal mould of running around the midfield and doing everything. And that's what he's done for TFC all season. He can create chances but he does it better when he has room to run around.  DM was a poor choice of wording. Just straight up CM is where he needs to be.

[Obinna]

No Wingers Obinna?  That's a pretty narrow formation.  I think the only way that Giovinco works with Bradley is if you played 4-1-4-1 and them as the CM in that formation.

 

Actually JDG would be a nearly perfect 6 for TFC to pair with Bradley.  Ironically without the DP pressure his 2nd time around could be very good.

 

In any rate maybe the way that we're going we will have to sell off Gilberto because I don't think he fits in with the Bradley & Altidore combination.

Yeah I forgot to mention those didn't I? You could go 4-3-3 and play Gilberto and Oduro on the wings, with Altidore up the middle. Luke Moore could slide in anywhere in the front 3, and Dike could be a straight swap for Altidore. Bekker for Bradley, Osorio for Giovinco, etc.

 

But at any rate I don't think they'll be able to keep Gilberto. I'd say they do another English swap to address the need at CB. I propose Gilberto to Birmingham City for Edgar 

[Yohan]

In the last 18 months the USNT hasn't played Bradley as a DM, that's what I'm saying.  Fans of the team may like to think of him as a DM but they have played him as either an 8 or a 10 in the last 18 months.  The 4-4-2 they ran with Bradley and Jones both playing 8 was a disaster and they scrapped it and since then he's played in an advanced position ever since (mostly because Jones & Bradley didn't cover for each other well).

 

Bradley may say he wants to play backed up a bit but he probably is a true box to box guy and playing DM doesn't play to his playmaking strengths.  We're certainly not paying him the money that we're paying him to be a destroyer back there.

Jones now plays CB for US

[jpg75]

#6 Alex Bono GK Syracuse

#9 Clement Simonin D NC State

#11 Skylar Thomas CB Syracuse

 

No idea why we would take a GK when we have a decent starter, decent back-up and solid, young #3?

[jpg75]

This nugget from MLS website regarding the Seattle pick we had picked up in the Stefan Frei trade:

 

• Pick acquired from Colorado in trade (Jan 2015). Colorado acquired pick from Dallas as part of Oscar Pareja hiring agreement (Jan 2014); Dallas acquired pick from Toronto as part of the Jackson trade (Dec 2013); and Toronto acquired pick from Seattle as part of Stefan Frei trade (Dec 2013)

So i had posted a link from that trade in another thread which mentioned it was a 2nd rounder (which makes more sense considering the players' talent and his cap hit), but this indicates it was a 1st rounder. Ouch.

 

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/12/tfc-acquires-jackson-fc-dallas

 

Toronto FC announced Monday that it has acquired midfielder Jackson from FC Dallas in exchange for a conditional second-round pick in the 2015 MLS SuperDraft and allocation money. 

 

So i guess Jackson was so awesome that the 2nd rounder turned into a 1st rounder? Must be what happened because these articles state the exact same thing:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-lands-jackson-from-fc-dallas-1.2457477

http://www2.tsn.ca/toronto/story/?id=438607

[jpg75]

Altidore to be presented on Friday:

 

http://www.espnfc.com/league-name/story/2245286/headline

 

Article mentions that RBNY tried to weasel their way into the deal, but TFC managed to avoid getting screwed (probably threatened to void the sale of Defoe).

[tmcmurph]

http://www.tsn.ca/why-not-getting-fee-for-defoe-with-altidore-matters-1.184441

 

So did TFC get their money back from the transfer fee they paid for Defoe or not? I'm just curious.

 

Even if it was a straight swap I think TFC did okay.  Yes paying $10 mil transfer for Altidore is too much but he's younger, less injury prone and if he bounces back to the form he had earlier in his career he'll be good. Still a lot to pay but at least you'll get 30+ games out of him a year.

 

Playing at a slightly lower level (bottom part of EPL vs MLS) and closer to home less press, pressure etc I think he'll bag 15. We'll see in 6 months or so.

 

It would also explain how TFC could say no to RBNY. Pay us the $10 mil if you want him type cold water on their parade. It also makes me think that RBNY wanted Altidore as much to keep him away from a divisional foe as for his on field ability. So they think high enough of him to actually try and get him.

[Oranje]

http://www.tsn.ca/why-not-getting-fee-for-defoe-with-altidore-matters-1.184441

 

So did TFC get their money back from the transfer fee they paid for Defoe or not? I'm just curious.

 

Even if it was a straight swap I think TFC did okay.  Yes paying $10 mil transfer for Altidore is too much but he's younger, less injury prone and if he bounces back to the form he had earlier in his career he'll be good. Still a lot to pay but at least you'll get 30+ games out of him a year.

 

Playing at a slightly lower level (bottom part of EPL vs MLS) and closer to home less press, pressure etc I think he'll bag 15. We'll see in 6 months or so.

 

It would also explain how TFC could say no to RBNY. Pay us the $10 mil if you want him type cold water on their parade. It also makes me think that RBNY wanted Altidore as much to keep him away from a divisional foe as for his on field ability. So they think high enough of him to actually try and get him.

JMO tweeted a couple dozen times that he heard it was a straight swap, no money

[El Hombre]

John Molinaro

 

Toronto FC to announce Sebastian Giovinco as its newest player early next week, Sportsnet has learned. Story to follow on Sportsnet.ca #TFC

[chowda7]

Great to see the club is still able to attract top talent despite their on-field performance. Although $7 million can be pretty persuasive.

[adrenaline11]

Big deal for TFC but even bigger deal for MLS.

[jpg75]

So now it's a matter of trading Gilberto...hopefully pick up an experienced CB in the process.

[Gian-Luca]

Holy Giovinco Batman!

 

Never would have thought this was possible.