Obinna Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Also happy if this happens and I personally don't care that he's already 27. Pacheco was around that age when he first came on the scene for us, and he has been valuable as a depth player ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't see the problem in Lefèvre cheering for France anyways. How many Canadian internationals were supporting the Dutch during the last World Cup because of a certain player? If I was a 9 year old boy in France and I see France winning the World Cup. I don'T think that we can blame him for that. He's born there and lived his first 14 years there. I'm sure that seeing what was happening in the streets of Montpellier (or wherever he was at that time) made it special. It's normal to feel something about it because you lived it when it happened. Had let's say Australia won the World Cup in 1994 (Ok, clearly it's to imagine Lord Bob cheering for the Socceroos now, he would feel something about that event) And Lord Bob oh no he would just have found Rick Titus playing in Edmonton and somehow known that his country needs him.Then again, there's only one Lord Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Has he? I'm not seeing that tweet. I'm seeing he is going to be a Canadian citizen Thursday morning but nothing about the national team contacting him? Did he delete it, or was it a reply to someone? Anyway, I'm sort of /shrug about him. The amount of France positivity he posts, in my mind I view him as someone who, given the choice between France and Canada, would choose France. Call me wrong? Either way, I'm not super jacked. If he plays for us, welcome aboard, and thank you for adding depth. About it. It is sad to say but probably a pretty large percentage of our Canadian born players would choose to play for France if they were good enough and eligible. And you can't expect someone born in another country and who lived half of their life their to not feel attachment to that country even if they also feel Canadian as well. Levevre has also made some pretty positive statements about Canada as well so it is not like he is just "Vive le France to hell with Canada". I have also heard Camara say that he loves it here and plans to settle here after his career is over though I am sure he still has a lot of feelings for France. Akindele also has stated he feels Canadian though he probably feels more American than Canadian and would likely have chosen them if he was assured of being a regular. If I ran FIFA I would up residency requirements to 10 years but given that they are 5 I am not too bothered by people playing for us or other countries who generally feel tied to the country and have lived there. It is the ones who are making mercenary decisions based on tenuous ties like blood links that bother me (but at the same time I think we have to allow ourselves to play by the same rules that the other countries are playing by). He is 25 right now and will be 26 in December (his age has been incorrectly stated here and on Wiki). Previously I would have said he is just a depth player but he did have 2 really strong games recently that showed me more potential than I previously thought although he lost his spot after 1 poor game to Soumare. Soumare then had 2 poor games and was replace by Cebrara (who has been playing RB for us but is a really a CB) who was decent but not outstanding. We will have to see what happens the rest of the season but at the very least it never hurts to have more depth and competition for places in the national team and the more we have this the less we will rely on unattached guys or guys playing lower divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I mean, I see both sides of the arguments against and for Leferve. I don't rate him....at all.....but why not do like the Americans and cap any willing eligible player. Although he is 25 now....he could be better than Edgar or Matt Besler at 28/29 if he's consistently playing... who knows??? At the end of the day he's another professional CB that is not playing for Unattached FC. So bottom line. Cap tie him....its unlikely he'll be needed. We can call him Teal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have absolutely no problem with Lefevre joining our program, just to be completely clear. It's not about him. Let's just say that after being burned by so many Canadians, I would wonder if the rules about changing countries are too loose? As for other Canadians joining France if they were eligible...I would sincerely hope not. I don't expect everyone to have the very nationalistic mindset that myself and many other Voyageurs do... But I would LOVE to think that a lot of the guys currently wearing the red are actually proud Canadians that bleed red and would not have it any other way. Just like us. I'm a country before club kind of guy. If everyone can just choose their nationality, then what is the point of that mindset? It's not about being close minded to other nationalities, or bigotry, it's about pride in where you were born/raised. I'm sure Wandrille is a helluva guy, and loves Canada, why else would he get citizenship? Good on him and welcome aboard. That said it sure is a shame that so many Canadians can jump ship to other countries based on the looseness of rules. Sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose, and if we are welcoming the Wandrille's can we be upset about the Begovics? And I'm sorry but that whole "It's okay as long as you aren't good enough for the other country" rule of thumb never made much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Pride Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Guys lefevre will be a nice addition to the team. You guys are under rating him. Right off the bat, he is better then Ouimette who always gets called up by floro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There was a ball hockey team of Montrealers of Haitian descent representing Haiti at a ball hockey tournament in Switzerland. I don't think that this team played because they are not proud Canadians, but because they are proud of their heritage. I do think that you can have more than one country in your heart. I'm a proud Canadian, but I'm also proud of my Haitian heritage. I do think that Wandrille can be proud of both of his countries. I don't think that the rules of possible dual national can be rationalized in any way. We can't rationalize it plain and simple. Because, nobody has the same view on how we see our team. Nobody can win that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There was a ball hockey team of Montrealers of Haitian descent representing Haiti at a ball hockey tournament in Switzerland. I don't think that this team played because they are not proud Canadians, but because they are proud of their heritage. I do think that you can have more than one country in your heart. I'm a proud Canadian, but I'm also proud of my Haitian heritage. I do think that Wandrille can be proud of both of his countries. I don't think that the rules of possible dual national can be rationalized in any way. We can't rationalize it plain and simple. Because, nobody has the same view on how we see our team. Nobody can win that argument. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have absolutely no problem with Lefevre joining our program, just to be completely clear. It's not about him. Let's just say that after being burned by so many Canadians, I would wonder if the rules about changing countries are too loose? The rules about changing countries absolutely are too loose. I don't think you'll find anyone on these forums who would argue otherwise. But Wandrille Lefevre's situation isn't comparable to the worst examples like Begovic, Hargreaves, or the German half of the USMNT. His situation is more similar to Jonathan de Guzman, without the jerking around of fans and media, but even JDG2 won't be living in Holland for life. One absolutely and rightly can complain about situations like Begovic while welcoming Lefevre without being inconsistent. Lefevre has lived here since he was a teen, and for non-footballing reasons. I think once he has his Canadian citizenship he is as Canadian as you or I, but like other Canadians we shouldn't begrudge the fact that he sometimes celebrates his other ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The rules about changing countries absolutely are too loose. I don't think you'll find anyone on these forums who would argue otherwise. But Wandrille Lefevre's situation isn't comparable to the worst examples like Begovic, Hargreaves, or the German half of the USMNT. His situation is more similar to Jonathan de Guzman, without the jerking around of fans and media, but even JDG2 won't be living in Holland for life. One absolutely and rightly can complain about situations like Begovic while welcoming Lefevre without being inconsistent. Lefevre has lived here since he was a teen, and for non-footballing reasons. I think once he has his Canadian citizenship he is as Canadian as you or I, but like other Canadians we shouldn't begrudge the fact that he sometimes celebrates his other ties. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Definitely similar to De guzman. Actually I'd begrudge Begovic less than either of them, because he was born in Bosnia and his first language wasn't even English. He didn't move to Canada until he was 10. What makes his example so different? I think what makes people more angry about Begovic was that he played for our youth squads. Lefevre moved here as a teen, yes. 17 years old (roughly) At what age did Jonathan move? For that record, Mallan Roberts, what age did he move? At what point can you have two nations in your heart? Is Jonathan really so different? Is Mallan Roberts? I really like Mallan and would welcome him like I would Lefevre. But with Mallan Roberts you have a VERY similar situation to say, Jonathan de Guzman in that Sierra Leone was still interested in him. And he teased interest back to Sierra Leone. I don't agree that you can argue against one and welcome the other and still be consistent. I agree more with Blackdude. Nobody has the same rules on how we see our team. Noone can win the argument. My argument is simply that I'd like to see FIFA tighten the rules, and in that I certainly agree with jonovision on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There was a ball hockey team of Montrealers of Haitian descent representing Haiti at a ball hockey tournament in Switzerland. I don't think that this team played because they are not proud Canadians, but because they are proud of their heritage. I do think that you can have more than one country in your heart. I'm a proud Canadian, but I'm also proud of my Haitian heritage. I do think that Wandrille can be proud of both of his countries. I don't think that the rules of possible dual national can be rationalized in any way. We can't rationalize it plain and simple. Because, nobody has the same view on how we see our team. Nobody can win that argument. Exactly. I find the only people who try to rationalize it are third generation Canadians. However its the nature of the country we live in. You can go through every player in our pool, and I guarantee that 95% of the guys could play for another nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 95% ? Okay, if you guarantee it, go do it. By pool, I think the standard should be that they have been at least called to a Camp Poutine to qualify for the pool. Go ahead and list every player and the 2nd country they are able to play for. 95% seems like a hell of a number to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think there's a low % of Canadians who have all 4 grandparents not born in another country. Remember that in 100 years our population has grown from 7 million to 36 million people. Most people in Canada are direct immigrants, 2nd generation Canadians or 3rd generations Canadians by at least one grandparent. I would bet it approaches 90% for sure. It's probably only in the native reserves and parts of Quebec outside Montreal & QC that this isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 That's fine, I'm not disputing that, but I'd like to see it done with our current player pool if possible. I'm legitimately curious. And yes, I certainly won't deny that I'm a homer that had all 4 grandparents born in Canada. Ever rarer, I'm still a soccer fan. I think when you talk about this discussion, and Canadians, it should be pointed out that if this were hockey this wouldn't even be a conversation. Because more fans and players %wise in soccer are likely to be from different nationalities as well. Why do you think all of us "homers" (term I'm using) constantly are pushing for more development in Canada lol...the solutions ARE there, and really it starts with generating more interest. I have to thank MLS for allowing 3 Canadian teams, and NASL for currently 2 Canadian teams to help do just that. Again though, is it possible to do that with our current player pool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I was thinking of my own FIFA eligibility. I'm about as "Canadian" as it gets but I would be able to represent Canada, England, Scotland and Finland. My wife would be able to represent Canada, Poland, England and Italy. Both of my kids could represent Canada or England (but they would only think of representing Canada) WW2 was such a huge disrupter to demographics and we've had huge immigration going for the past 50 years that I'm sure not many people don't have similar FIFA eligibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think it's too hard to go through the player pool because by they time you're a 3rd generation Canadian you don't refer to yourself as anything else really even though you'd be eligible. That being said, we still know a bunch of overseas family. I have a first cousin my age in Finland with kids my kid's age and my uncle sends us cards and we call them and visit them. My wife's parents were just over in Italy visiting my mother-in-law's family this month. But each generation it becomes more tenuous. Neither side visits our relatives in England or Scotland and my wife's father's family was all killed by the Germans in WW2 so there's nothing there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ill take a crack at it based on our 35 man gold cup roster and some other players Lars- Germany Milan- Serbia Kenny- Greece Roberts- Guyana Ledgerwood?? Morgan- Jamaica Hainault- ??? Edgar- England James- Dominica Jakovic- Serbia/ Croatia Straith- ??? De Jong- Netherlands Tissot- ??? Ouimette- ??? Nana- Ghana Adekugbe- Engalnd Froese- Cuba Roberts- Sierra Leone De Guzman- Phillipenes/Jamaica Teibert- ???? Bekker- ??? Aleman- Costa Rica Osorio- Colombia Piette- ??? Pacheco- Portugual Johnson- USA Issey- Japan Hutch- Jamaica Petrasso- Italy Jackson- Jamaica Ricketts- Jamaica Haber- Austria Larin- Jamaica Akindele- USA/ Nigeria REB- Ghana Hamilton- Jamaica Dero- Guyana Hoilett- Jamaica Occean- Haiti I personally could represent Canada or Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Filling in the blanks a bit at least as to name origins, which is only 1/4 of the genealogy. Roberts- England Ledgerwood- England Hainault - Belgium (incidentally Houseofnames.com list Andre as being the most famous Hainault member) Straith- England Tissot - France (but this was an early French immigration name though) Ouimette- France (also an early French immigration name) Teibert - old stock Canadian and US name Bekker - Germany Piette - Netherlands or France (also a very old name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Right let's not assume they WOULD have non-Canadian national grandparents, but at the same time, we certainly can't assume they do not. If we DID assume they did not, that still gives us 31/39, which is 80%. Much closer to the 95% than I anticipated, and given that at least one or two of the ??? players probably DO have at least 1 grandparent etc...probably closer yet again. Good info. Now...what if we did the exact same thing with our Canada Men's Hockey team? Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all here, this is legitimate curiosity at studying this from a cultural integration angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Teibert is German/Italian. He has said he would like to play in the Bundesliga due to the fact his grandfather was German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ill take a crack at it based on our 35 man gold cup roster and some other players Lars- Germany Milan- Serbia Kenny- Greece Roberts- Guyana Ledgerwood?? Morgan- Jamaica Hainault- ??? Edgar- England James- Dominica Jakovic- Serbia/ Croatia Straith- ??? De Jong- Netherlands Tissot- ??? Ouimette- ??? Nana- Ghana Adekugbe- England Froese- Cuba Roberts- Sierra Leone De Guzman- Phillipenes/Jamaica Teibert- ???? Bekker- ??? Aleman- Costa Rica Osorio- Colombia Piette- ??? Pacheco- Portugual Johnson- USA Issey- Japan/England Hutch- Trinidad & Tobago Petrasso- Italy Jackson- Jamaica Ricketts- Jamaica Haber- Austria Larin- Jamaica Akindele- USA/ Nigeria REB- Ghana Hamilton- Jamaica Dero- Guyana Hoilett- Jamaica Occean- Haiti I personally could represent Canada or Italy. Corrected Hutch and made addition to Issey. Both were info from Wikipedia so may not be 100% correct but I think its accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Also Johnson is English as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Right. The particulars are important from a fan point of view, but in a broader sense, ignoring breaking it down and proving our knowledge, again, would this be comparable to our men's national hockey team? I have to admit, I'm completely ignorant about the NHL, I basically stopped watching at the last lockout, so I was hoping someone with some hockey knowledge could come and compare what our men's team might look like lineage-wise from that point of view? Just trying to get a broader sense rather than nailing it down player by player...not that it's about me, but if anyone else is interested in that, that could help me out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCreamMan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Right. The particulars are important from a fan point of view, but in a broader sense, ignoring breaking it down and proving our knowledge, again, would this be comparable to our men's national hockey team? I have to admit, I'm completely ignorant about the NHL, I basically stopped watching at the last lockout, so I was hoping someone with some hockey knowledge could come and compare what our men's team might look like lineage-wise from that point of view? Just trying to get a broader sense rather than nailing it down player by player...not that it's about me, but if anyone else is interested in that, that could help me out? I know hockey quite well but its a lot harder to do since every hockey that has a tie to another doesn't contemplate playing for them. The issue doesn't even come up in the media so its harder to get information. Just as a guess I would say the percentage would be quite a bit lower due to the demographics the sports attract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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