Alex Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Thought I'd start a thread on this as all the teams have now qualified. Jamaica are hosts. USA, Mexico and Canada qualified automatically. Panama, Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador qualified from Central America. Haiti, Cuba, T&t and Aruba qualified from caribbean qualification although they play the finals tomorrow. It's two groups of six, first place in each group qualify directly and the second and third place teams in each group get reseeded and have a playoff. So 1v4 and 2v3 and the two winners qualify. I like this format and I think we've got a good shot here. Forgot to mention it all starts in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 We should have a decent team for this too what with an attack force made up of Larin, Hamilton, Boakai, Huitema, Petrasso, Aird, Carreiro, Bustos and Froese and a defence with Gagnon-Lapare, Gasparotto, Comsia, Farmer, Adekugbe and Carducci. I always get excited for our U20 teams, but this one seems special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I wonder are any of those defensive midfielders aside from Jérémy? Louis Béland-Goyette wouldn't be a bad choice also. I just wonder who else could play at DM, since I want to know who else can play there. Perhaps Carreiro could play there, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I thought our last u20 team would be good because we had lots of players in pro environments. I was wrong. Being in a pro environment doesn't mean anything if these guys aren't getting playing time IMHO. This will be demonstrated against certain other Central American teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Gagne Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 ^ I haven't done a direct comparison, but I would think the number of guys in this cohort with a Sr. team contract, who are factoring into a game day 18 for a Sr. team (be it USL Pro, MLS, League 1, , Scottish 2nd Div, etc) is probably higher this cohort than the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I wonder are any of those defensive midfielders aside from Jérémy? Louis Béland-Goyette wouldn't be a bad choice also. I just wonder who else could play at DM, since I want to know who else can play there. Perhaps Carreiro could play there, no? I liked Jordan Haynes in this role with the U17s. He seems to play more advanced with the Whitecaps though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 ^ I haven't done a direct comparison, but I would think the number of guys in this cohort with a Sr. team contract, who are factoring into a game day 18 for a Sr. team (be it USL Pro, MLS, League 1, , Scottish 2nd Div, etc) is probably higher this cohort than the last one. U20 Hondurans and Costa Ricans regularly playing at a NASL -USL PRO type level in their home countries will have a lot more teeth than our boys sitting on the bench for mls teams or playing in the ussda. Being in a game day 18 doesn't mean anything to me. It's about how many minutes these guys get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 U20 Hondurans and Costa Ricans regularly playing at a NASL -USL PRO type level in their home countries will have a lot more teeth than our boys sitting on the bench for mls teams or playing in the ussda. Being in a game day 18 doesn't mean anything to me. It's about how many minutes these guys get. I'd say you are right for the most part but there are many more factors that go into it. For instance Doneil Henry was the only player from the last U20 team who was playing regular first team footy in MLS.. he was also our WORST player last qualifying. Our best player was arguably Dylan Carreiro who will be on this team but he was only playing academy footy in England. 2013 qualifying players receiving first team minutes/men's team caps (extremely weak): - Doneil Henry (3 MNT Caps) - Caleb Clarke (2 games <90 minutes) - Maybe 2 kids in the Portuguese 4th division? Mind you the 2013 team wasn't bad at all in my opinion. But if you compare it to the 2015 roster we are in a much better spot... I think this is the most talented generation since 2007 (Begovic, Edgar, Peters, Johnson, Jackson, Ricketts). 2015 (potential) qualifying players with first team minutes/men's team caps: - Petrasso - Gasparotto - Aird - Aparicio - JGL (4 Men's Caps) - Hamilton - Boakai - Jalali - Larin (2 caps) - Farmer (1 cap) - Adekugbe - Carreiro - Carducci - Froese - Bustos (I know, I know) - Béland-Goyette Sixteen u20 Canadian players with first team minutes this year. Unheard of for us. And just because those listed have first team minutes this year (or a first team cap in the case of Larin) doesn't mean they're necessarily better than those who haven't. There are a ton of great talents in the NCAA and playing for Academies in Europe and at home who will contend to be on this squad as well (Huitema, Ferguson, Nanco, Awuah etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'd say you are right for the most part but there are many more factors that go into it. For instance Doneil Henry was the only player from the last U20 team who was playing regular first team footy in MLS.. he was also our WORST player last qualifying. Our best player was arguably Dylan Carreiro who will be on this team but he was only playing academy footy in England. I'm not sure I'd call him our "worst" player last time out. The organization was complete shit and the backline wasn't given much in the way of cover. We played like a 1980's south american side with a bunch of cagy guys with ball skills who never tracked back or passed to anyone else. It wasn't an un-talented group but we did absolutely nothing to get them to play as a team. I'm inclined to agree with Soccerpro on the professional experience side of things. I still remember Jose Villareal and a few other guys on the american team being dominant in those games. They were all the players who had already logged serious MLS minutes and were competing at a level most of the other players weren't used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I wonder if we're that bad on the U-20 level. I'm going to take Panama as an example. They've finished first in UNCAF, so I'll consider them the best team in Central America, by using socccerway. I'm taking league and CCL. I'm going club-by-club because it's easier for me that way. Tauro GK de Gracia : 1 start, 6 times unused sub (90 minutes) D: Araya: 1 start, 5 times unused sub (90 minutes) MF Zorilla: 8 games, 1 start, and 6 times unused sub (192 minutes) FW Barrow 7 games, 2 starts (240 minutes) FW Diaz 1 start (46 minutes) Sporting San Miguelito D Escobar 36 games 34 starts (3066 minutes) D Galvan: nothing MF Gonzalez: nothing MF Salcedo: nothing FW Small 19 games 12 starts (1214 minutes) Chorillo FC MF Rodriguez 27 games 18 starts (1657 minutes) MF Velarde 23 games 6 starts (958 minutes) Arabe Unido D Hormechea 18 games 17 starts (1413 minutes) M Lewis nothing San Francisco GK Melendez 5 times unused sub Rio Abajo FC D Diaz 2 starts (180 minutes) Although he's at a second division club now and soccerway doesn't have stats at that level so I can't say for sure if he got more starts. Queretaro (Mexico) M Samms nothing Shattuck St Mary (USSDA) M Narbon (I'll just mention that he was an all USSDA player, won't mention the starts because that's the debate.) So looking at that team. You have only 6 players with more than 300 minutes, but they've got 900 and more minutes played in LPF play. I do see where we fall behind there. And that's 11 players with top flight experience. We have some interesting players, but who do we have on our U20 with at least MLS Reserve/USL Pro experience? From those owned by our clubs. (So no Petrasso, Carreiro, Gasparotto, Aird) Edmonton: Hanson Boakai (600 minutes, but wow he has played more in the V's Cup in his career than in NASL. Colin Miller is clearly not wearing handsome bowties on weekends) Marko Aleksic (134 minutes) Sadi Jalali (531 minutes) Vancouver The one that shall not be named on this board, because nobody's made a mistake at 18 years old 361 minutes including 64 in V's Cup Carducci 210 minutes Farmer 451 minutes (All USL Pro) Froese 325 minutes including 77 with first team Adekugbe 676 minutes including 226 with first team Toronto Hamilton 774 minutes (I've included his totals from Portugal) Aparicio 1396 minutes (All in USL Pro Montreal Gagnon-Laparé 881 minutes (212 with the first team) Béland-Goyette 199 minutes (14 with the first team) I don't think we look bad depth wise compared to Panama, but I see that Panama has those 6 young veterans that we lack. So I get that point, but I would think that we are better than we were 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 For instance Doneil Henry was the only player from the last U20 team who was playing regular first team footy in MLS.. he was also our WORST player last qualifying. From what I remember, when he got injured the team absolutely collapsed and was hammered by the States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerlife Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I liked Jordan Haynes in this role with the U17s. He seems to play more advanced with the Whitecaps though. I was told Haynes plays left back for Whitecaps most of the time. Also plays cm/dm. Noticed on their website it lists him as a forward, but told he never plays there. He did well with the U17's as a defensive midfielder, first time competitively in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Does the Panamanian league have reserve teams? Might be worth looking into if we want a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Does the Panamanian league have reserve teams? Might be worth looking into if we want a fair comparison. I don't know the level of play of the Panamanian First Division, but I feel as though that any league their Reserves would play in would be too low that it wouldn't really factor into the equation. It would be like counting minutes for TFC guys in League1 Ontario. The ones that are playing in USL Pro are at least still considered to be playing in a Pro league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 In terms of pro experience it's clear we have the advantage over Panama. Makes you wonder if we had a domestic league how many more minutes we would have though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I don't know the level of play of the Panamanian First Division, but I feel as though that any league their Reserves would play in would be too low that it wouldn't really factor into the equation. It would be like counting minutes for TFC guys in League1 Ontario. The ones that are playing in USL Pro are at least still considered to be playing in a Pro league That is probably a fair assumption. It is hard to gauge these leagues because we don't see them, but historically it seems that the leagues in Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador (probably in that order) are all stronger. It makes sense that the Panamanian league is the weakling of the 5 when you consider the influence of Baseball in that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Gagne Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 @blackdude... thanks for compiling the numbers! I actually think we stack up pretty well against Panama, which might not have been the case in previous cycles. Add to that list: Henry - starts regularly in MLS Aird - ~50 games for Rangers (granted mostly at a lower level) Petrasso - ~25 League 1 (or higher) games since last year Adekube - 4 games, 226min in MLS Gasparotto - 4 games in Scottish League 1 (again not sure if we should count that level) To put all of this in perspective, if all three MLS teams come through and field USL Pro teams next year, the next time the U20's roles around we won't even be having this debate... which IMO is a lot of progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 @blackdude... thanks for compiling the numbers! I actually think we stack up pretty well against Panama, which might not have been the case in previous cycles. Add to that list: Henry - starts regularly in MLS Aird - ~50 games for Rangers (granted mostly at a lower level) Petrasso - ~25 League 1 (or higher) games since last year Adekube - 4 games, 226min in MLS To put all of this in perspective, if all three MLS teams come through and field USL Pro teams next year, the next time the U20's roles around we won't even be having this debate... which IMO is a lot of progress. Henry is a 93 so too old for this cycle. But as a consolation prize Aird actually should have around 70 games for Rangers by the time qualifying rolls around, and I don't care if most were at a lower level that is an amazing experience playing for that club alongside internationals and in front of 50,000 each weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Henry - starts regularly in MLS Henry is too old to play with the U-20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Henry is a 93 so too old for this cycle. But as a consolation prize Aird actually should have around 70 games for Rangers by the time qualifying rolls around, and I don't care if most were at a lower level that is an amazing experience playing for that club alongside internationals and in front of 50,000 each weekend. At any rate, the lower leagues in Scotland probably stack up well against the Panamanian league in terms of quality. So you're right for not caring that those are low level minutes he's played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I liked Jordan Haynes in this role with the U17s. He seems to play more advanced with the Whitecaps though. Edit: saw that somebody else already commented that his usual position is left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Just to add onto Blackdude's list, I added a few more players eligible for U20 and put it in order of professional minutes to date (including MLS reserve minutes) that were tabulated from Soccerway.com Fraser Aird RANGERS 3792 minutes Michael Petrasso LEYTON ORIENT/QPR/COVENTRY CITY/OLDHAM ATHLETIC 1715 minutes Manuel Aparicio WILMINGTON HAMMERHEADS/TORONTO FC II 1396 minutes Jérémy Gagnon-Laparé MONTREAL IMPACT/MONTREAL IMPACT II 881 minutes Jordan Hamilton TROFENSE/WILMINGTON HAMMERHEADS/TORONTO FC II 774 minutes Sam Adekugbe VANCOUVER WHITECAPS/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 676 minutes Hanson Boakai FC EDMONTON 600 minutes Sadi Jalali FC EDMONTON 531 minutes Luca Gasparotto AIRDRIEONIANS/STIRLING ALNION/RANGERS 525 minutes Jackson Farmer CHARLESTON BATTERY/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 451 minutes Marco Bustos VANCOUVER WHITECAPS/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 361 minutes Elias Roubos TORONTO FC II 360 minutes Kianz Froese VANCOUVER WHITECAPS/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 325 minutes Marco Carducci VANCOUVER WHITECAPS 210 minutes Dylan Sacramento TORONTO FC II 203 minutes Louis Béland-Goyette MONTREAL IMPACT/MONTREAL IMPACT II 199 minutes Eric Davies FC DALLAS II 180 minutes Janouk Charbonneau MONTREAL IMPACT II 178 minutes Marko Aleksic FC EDMONTON 134 minutes Charles Joly MONTREAL IMPACT II 105 minutes Yacine Ait-Slimane MONTREAL IMPACT II 88 minutes Alain Sargeant TORONTO FC II 58 minutes Dylan Carreiro ARBROATH 44 minutes Daniel Jodah TORONTO FC II 44 minutes Luca Uccello TORONTO FC II 26 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 ... And here are the minutes for players in the last cycle (these minutes include time played after the tournament ended so its a bit skewed). Also note, the second most experienced player at the time, Alderson, was injured. So far in terms of minutes we are looking MUCH better this time around. With FC Montreal starting next year and hopefully teams for TFC and Vancouver, its only going to go up! Doneil Henry TORONTO FC/TORONTO FC II 4743 minutes Bryce Alderson CHARLESTON BATTERY/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 815 minutes Ben Fisk CHARLESTON BATTERY 283 minutes Maxime Crepeau MONTREAL IMPACT II 275 minutes Caleb Clarke VANCOUVER WHITECAPS/VANCOUVER WHITECAPS II 65 minutes Samuel Piette FORTUNA DUSSELDORF II 64 minutes Anthony Jackson-Hamel MONTREAL IMPACT II 44 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Chris Mannella is a 94 I believe so he won't be eligible. The 93s-94s will still be eligible for the Pan Am games next summer and for the Olympic qualifiers in 2016 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyJames Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Has Fraser Aird even committed to Canada? I thought he decided to be Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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