Increasing the Canadian MLS Quota

[baulderdash77]

Until Vancouver came to the MLS, Toronto was required to maintain a minimum of 8 Canadians on it's roster.  That was Canadians with a Canadian passport.  After Vancouver was added and Montreal was on the horizon it was dropped to 3 Canadian permanent residents or citizens due to the fear that there wouldn't be enough professional quality players.  It was thought at the time that the change may be short term.

 

Fast forward a few years and we are at the point where the academies are churning out several prospects a year.  Also MLS hasn't been able to resolve the issue with Canadians being unfairly treated in MLS and MLS requires USA based teams to keep 23 US permanent residents and citizens on their roster.    Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have 8,7 and 5 Candian players on their roster respectively.

 

Do you think that it's time for the CSA to gradually raise the bar to a higher level of Canadian players and how quickly and to what extent should they do it?

 

I think they should move to 10 Canadians minimum by 2020 by expanding the minimum to 5 next year and increasing it by 1 every year for the next 5 years.

 

Maybe even expanding it to 15 and extend it by 1 every year until 2025.  It's quite a bit more than we have now but it's a long lead up time and keep in mind that the US mandates 23 so it's dilute even by US standards.

 

What do you think?

[tmcmurph]

I'm okay with increasing it to 5 but then pause for 3 years and see how that goes before expanding further.

 

One other point is that the Canadian players are only required to be signed to the 30 man squad and there is no guaranteed playing time. They get a pro contract and get to practice daily in a pro environment so the rest has to be up to the individual players. 

[One American]

On top of roster numbers, I think the CSA should go with 68 starts required by Canadian players. Maybe more. I don't think that would be a problem for most Canadian teams.

[Blackdude]

On top of roster numbers, I think the CSA should go with 68 starts required by Canadian players. Maybe more. I don't think that would be a problem for most Canadian teams.

Are you on crack? I don't think that any of the 3 clubs have 2 Canadian starts per game. Counting Lefevre a Canadian, they have 46 starts with 9 games remaining. TFC is at 48 starts after 25 games. It's not good to do that unless it was in OUR league. MLS isn't our league, and Canadian clubs are already at a disadvantage within this league, why should we handicap ourselves more. Unless the CSA's goal is to bring Canadian clubs in a Canadian league, I find it stupid and clueless.

[fuzzx]

On top of roster numbers, I think the CSA should go with 68 starts required by Canadian players. Maybe more. I don't think that would be a problem for most Canadian teams.

Where did you get 68 from?

[tmcmurph]

On top of roster numbers, I think the CSA should go with 68 starts required by Canadian players. Maybe more. I don't think that would be a problem for most Canadian teams.

 

No. No guaranteed playing time. At some point you have to say "you have to make it from here on your own" otherwise what good will they be? Being signed and getting paid to practice in a pro setting with pro coaches and some excellent talent to learn from is enough. Once you are on the 30 man roster making the game day bench and then the starting 11 is up to them. Their work ethic and talent need to be focused on from there onwards. 

[Blackdude]

Where did you get 68 from?

34 MLS games *2 players

[VWFC]

Just a general statement: quality over quantity.

 

Quotas are ok, but quite frankly they often just look like uniformed, knee jerk reactions that don't actually help the root of the problem - youth development.  As I mentioned before, despite it feeling like an eternity any 16 year old who joined Montreal when they came into the league would only be 18 today.  That same 16 yr old would be 19 in Vancouver.  It takes time.

 

Maybe start with high quotas for the USL Pro teams in Montreal and Vancouver next year (if the CSA could even mandate that?).  Put the time, thought and effort into the kids, rather than making teams fill out the last 5-8 roster spots with 30+ year olds who cant find jobs in Europe and kids who wont play a minute to simply make up numbers.  Its not the answer.         

[A_Gagne]

No. No guaranteed playing time. At some point you have to say "you have to make it from here on your own" otherwise what good will they be? Being signed and getting paid to practice in a pro setting with pro coaches and some excellent talent to learn from is enough. Once you are on the 30 man roster making the game day bench and then the starting 11 is up to them. Their work ethic and talent need to be focused on from there onwards. 

 

Not so far fetched IMO. Rather than setting a cap on the number of foreign players a club can have on it's roster, the English Rugby Championship (2nd tier) sets a maximum number of starts by non-England eligible players a club can have per season. I.e. each club can have as many foreign players as it wants, but it has to give English players the vast majority of starts.

 

I don't think the CSA taking a similar approach to the Canadian clubs is so far fetched, although, you're right in that it would put them at a significant competitive disadvantage as compared to American teams.

 

Also, if you read the fine print there the RFU makes the exact distinction "English eligible" players. I.e. if you've got an English passport, but have signed yourself up to play for another country, your English passport doesn't count for shit! An interesting, and to the point concept. 

[A_Gagne]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-requires-strict-canadian-quotas-for-usl-pro-sanctioning-r4815

 

 

 

Each team will be required to ensure that 50 percent of its active USL-Pro roster is Canadian. Importantly, it defines Canadians not by their citizenship but rather by their national team eligibility. Canadians capped by other nations are free to play for the teams, but will be considered imports in relation to CSA sanctioning.

To ensure that the cubs aren't just filling out their roster with Canadians for the sake of meeting the quota, the CSA is also requiring that six of the starting 11 players for each game be Canadian.

 

 

Step in the right direction with respect to the affliate USL-Pro clubs. I actually think 50% is a little low though. The "Canada eligible" clause is a great one though, and exactly in line with my above comment (good timing). It might make youth players think twice about jumping ship, as with 6 of 11 players at this level needed to be eligible for Canada, making a switch would directly affect their playing time. (not mentioning any names here... by think ya know who I'm talking about)

[One American]

Are you on crack? I don't think that any of the 3 clubs have 2 Canadian starts per game. Counting Lefevre a Canadian, they have 46 starts with 9 games remaining. TFC is at 48 starts after 25 games. It's not good to do that unless it was in OUR league. MLS isn't our league, and Canadian clubs are already at a disadvantage within this league, why should we handicap ourselves more. Unless the CSA's goal is to bring Canadian clubs in a Canadian league, I find it stupid and clueless.

So Toronto and Montreal are basically right at that pace, and presumably will have more Canadian players even next year. There seems to be one team whose fans particularly dislike this idea.

 

If I were in the CSA, I would be down to my last ounce of patience. They're gettign the worst end of the deal right now.

 

68 starts is a very reasonable threshold.

[Blackdude]

So Toronto and Montreal are basically right at that pace, and presumably will have more Canadian players even next year. There seems to be one team whose fans particularly dislike this idea.

If I were in the CSA, I would be down to my last ounce of patience. They're gettign the worst end of the deal right now.

68 starts is a very reasonable threshold.

I don't think it's good. Perhaps, they could force 1 Canadian starter every game which seems better. Montreal and Toronto are behind that pace not in front so they would need to increase their numbers from now. If you go with a # of starts teams will literally throw a game by starting 5 Canadians in a game just to not be worried later in the season to play none for a couple of games.

[gator]

I'm all for increasing the Canadian content quota, more importantly the rules that discriminate against Canadians on American teams is absolutely brutal and must be scrapped! I was so excited when Toronto got an MLS team, I can't say I'm excited about MLS anymore, it's an American league for American players!

[madmonte]

I don't think they will EVER have a quota for who is starting, and who is on the bench.  The only quota they will mandate is how many Canadians on the roster.  By making it too high, too early, my concern is simple.

 

Rather than helping Canadians by making sure they get high level playing time, you will be doing the opposite.  You will be forcing teams into having a couple young players on the roster who are simply "roster fodder" that never get any actual playing time, don't crack the bench, and in effect, you stunt their potential development.

 

That said, when it comes to Americans counting as domestics in Canada, but not vice versa, since we have Canadian teams in the MLS league, I would hope they would allow at least 1 Canadian to come onto a roster per team, maybe two, and not count as international, as a nod to the fact that there are Canadian MLS teams that do allow American domestics.

[Obinna]

I'm all for increasing the Canadian content quota, more importantly the rules that discriminate against Canadians on American teams is absolutely brutal and must be scrapped! I was so excited when Toronto got an MLS team, I can't say I'm excited about MLS anymore, it's an American league for American players!

 

I agree with this. I would love to see both but making Canadians domestics in the USA > raising the Canadian quota in Canada.

 

 

Raising the quota would just increase the number of Canadians sitting on the bench, because the quota would be satisfied with young HGP's. That is the easiest way for clubs to comply and it doesn't really help the CMNT.

 

 

Forcing teams to achieve 68 Canadian starts is not a good idea. I don't believe a coaches selection should be influenced by nationality. That is restrictive and obviously not good for the club. Besides, our players need to EARN their playing time.

 

 

That being said, I am a firm believer that our players need more OPPORTUNITIES. That means access to all 19 teams and not just 3. If things were as they should be, I honestly believe that Bekker and Morgan would have been shipped out by Nelsen and would have earned many more minutes. It's all about player movement.

 

 

On the flip side, Porter and Attakora both take up international slots. Both are not playing many first team minutes. I think it's only a matter of time before they get released since they occupy international spots. Then, where will they play? Again, player movement is restricted.

 

Of course you could simply argue that "if they're good enough they'd find work just like many Honduras, Costa Ricans, Jamaicans do etc." That is true, but my counter argument to that is: "Many American players fill in the roster gaps because they're domestic - there's no reason why Canadians shouldn't get this opportunity, since we have 3 clubs in this league".

 

In other words, we see MANY "American Journeymen" but no "Canadian-Journeymen" because of the restrictions in place. Even if I am being harsh and suggest that Nana Attakora is no better than Ryan Richter, I would also put money on the latter having a much longer MLS career because of the passport he holds.  

 

 

 

All those reasons are why I think getting that discrimination rule overturned is more important than people realize. Of course, this is not the end all be all, but it would certainly be more effective than increasing the quota or forcing teams to start Canadians when they don't deserve it. 

[gator]

^^^ Well said Obinna and I agree 100% with you!

[VWFC]

Didnt the Don say they were working on the Canadian/Domestic thing.... or am I just imagining that?

 

What Montagliani said in this article http://www.canadians...nctioning-r4815 is spot on.  Minimum Canadian quota in a development league is the best way forward in every sense and I'm really pleased they are doing this.  With the talent coming through each academy at the moment this is going to pay real dividends.

 

Well done CSA.   

[tmcmurph]

So Toronto and Montreal are basically right at that pace, and presumably will have more Canadian players even next year. There seems to be one team whose fans particularly dislike this idea.

 

If I were in the CSA, I would be down to my last ounce of patience. They're gettign the worst end of the deal right now.

 

68 starts is a very reasonable threshold.

 

No it is not reasonable. It is total nonsense. At some point you have to put the onus on the player. That happens at the professional level. They are given great opportunities to develop in Canada now. First in the academies, then the quota for signed players and now you want a quota of starters? Where does the player's responsibility come into it?

 

At some point the player has to realize this is pro sports. There will always be other players looking to take his job. There will always be scouts and coaches looking for someone better at his position. It is up to the players' work ethic and talent to TAKE the starting position and keep it.

 

If they can't do that at the MLS level what good are they going to be for our national team?

[VWFC]

Stop biting TRM.  He's just a troll.  

[Obinna]

Didnt the Don say they were working on the Canadian/Domestic thing.... or am I just imagining that?

 

He did say that, but I take it for exactly what it is - just talk. 

[maccaliam]

 I don't believe a coaches selection should be influenced by nationality. That is restrictive and obviously not good for the club. Besides, our players need to EARN their playing time.

 

Of course you could simply argue that "if they're good enough they'd find work just like many Honduras, Costa Ricans, Jamaicans do etc." That is true, but my counter argument to that is: "Many American players fill in the roster gaps because they're domestic - there's no reason why Canadians shouldn't get this opportunity, since we have 3 clubs in this league".

 

 Of course, this is not the end all be all, but it would certainly be more effective than increasing the quota or forcing teams to start Canadians when they don't deserve it.

Not picking on you obinna, bc there are others who have stated similar ideas, but IMO you are contradicting yourself here.

Why exactly should there be no restrictions in Canada bc players need to earn playing time, but Americans are better off, their players have longer careers and they have developed massively as a national team when their teams have restrictions on how many players must be American?

Why has this rule, which based on what a few posters are saying means American players are gifted playing time and they don't have to earn it, made their player pool deeper and their national side stronger?

[VWFC]

Why has this rule, which based on what a few posters are saying means American players are gifted playing time and they don't have to earn it, made their player pool deeper and their national side stronger?

 

Are you saying the roster rules in the MLS is directly responsible for the improved US national team?  

[maccaliam]

Are you saying the roster rules in the MLS is directly responsible for the improved US national team?

Solely, obviously not. But why have they got the quota? Because they want to give American players opportunities to develop, even though some of those Americans aren't better than the foreign players they could bring in. To me that sounds like many Americans are given playing time, and aren't earning it. Yet their player pool has deepened and their national program has improved..

Are you saying that the roster rules I the MLS have in no way helped the American nation program or the league as a whole?

[VWFC]

Solely, obviously not. But why have they got the quota? Because they want to give American players opportunities to develop, even though some of those Americans aren't better than the foreign players they could bring in. To me that sounds like many Americans are given playing time, and aren't earning it. Yet their player pool has deepened and their national program has improved..

Are you saying that the roster rules I the MLS have in no way helped the American nation program or the league as a whole?

 

I didnt say anything, I was asking a question.    

[maccaliam]

I didnt say anything, I was asking a question.

Fair enough. That wasn't an accusation either, it was just a question back.

Perhaps someone who thinks "giving" Canadians playing spots is so bad would care to share their thoughts?