Mark-Anthony Kaye

[Bertuzzi44]

3 hours ago, Addona said:

I know I shouldn't but I keep thinking to myself, "if we had Hutch we could win this whole damned thing!" ...

Considering the great form Arfield, Davies, Piette and Hoilett are in, adding Hutchinson would have been amazing!

[BrennanFan]

Thought Kaye made plenty of good plays, tracked well.  He was good enough for a first start in a competitive tough match.  

[Free kick]

14 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I think Kaye playing alright (not great but he didnt embarass anyone) goes to show what a player can do when he gets his chance surrounded with talent and good coaching.  Les face it, if he started a few years ago with Straith, Issey, Simeon Jackson, playing Floro ball he would have had a hard time of it.  Arfield is a beast, Hoilet and Davies are playing as well as any winger since Josh Simpson.  So Kaye just had to worry about his own little piece of the puzzle and had Arfield and Piette cleaning up any mistakes he made.   I dont want to take a nice game at the gold cup and project that into a miraculous transformation.  He needs to go back to Louisville (where he doesnt play much let alone start) keep working and build on this nice showing on a big stage.  

But the question is : is a callup to the national team along with start in the gold cup the way that we do things in Canada now to assess talent, potential and ability?  There are now league structure in place throughout the continent where thats already being done for you.  There are professional coaches, organizations with general manger and scouts doing that for you. The CSA and national team coaches use to do this kind of stuff 10 -20 years years ago when we didnt have pro teams in canada and blindly picked anyone playing europe.

I want re watch the game and i havent had a chance to do yet.  Hopefully in the next couple of days i will.   Thats because i want to be fair.  I had to kind of watch it on the fly therefore, much detailed observations were lost on me.    But from what i was able to gather,  i would say that:  i didnt even notice him out there.  

Thats not good. And it begs the question,  unless i am wrong, why are these kind players being called up and or starting ahead or more established players where the system has deemed them better prepared and worthy of this kind of competetion.  This also happened in the last round of WCQ, i dont know of any country where this happens.  If we were talking of about an up an  comming "Cant miss" kid that is just waiting break through with the top team(s);  that one thing.  But just picking twenty two year old USL or NASL Players; is another. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by Free kick

[yothat]

needs to get regular mins .. find a club where he can do asap

[1996]

14 hours ago, Free kick said:

But the question is : is a callup to the national team along with start in the gold cup the way that we do things in Canada now to assess talent, potential and ability?  There are now league structure in place throughout the continent where thats already being done for you.  There are professional coaches, organizations with general manger and scouts doing that for you. The CSA and national team coaches use to do this kind of stuff 10 -20 years years ago when we didnt have pro teams in canada and blindly picked anyone playing europe.

I want re watch the game and i havent had a chance to do yet.  Hopefully in the next couple of days i will.   Thats because i want to be fair.  I had to kind of watch it on the fly therefore, much detailed observations were lost on me.    But from what i was able to gather,  i would say that:  i didnt even notice him out there.  

Thats not good. And it begs the question,  unless i am wrong, why are these kind players being called up and or starting ahead or more established players where the system has deemed them better prepared and worthy of this kind of competetion.  This also happened in the last round of WCQ, i dont know of any country where this happens.  If we were talking of about an up an  comming "Cant miss" kid that is just waiting break through with the top team(s);  that one thing.  But just picking twenty two year old USL or NASL Players; is another. 

Yup have to agree you don't see this happen in many countries where guys from lower leagues take the spot of guys playing  in higher leagues on the national team, so this guy is not good enough to play on any of our three MLS teams but yet is good enough to play on the national team over guys who play in the MLS or other higher level leagues around the world, this really should not be happening because it does not happen or rarely  in any of the world's more established national teams. When was the last time an English player playing in the Championship started on the English national team over an English Premier League player?

[BrennanFan]

2 hours ago, 1996 said:

Yup have to agree you don't see this happen in many countries where guys from lower leagues take the spot of guys playing  in higher leagues on the national team, so this guy is not good enough to play on any of our three MLS teams but yet is good enough to play on the national team over guys who play in the MLS or other higher level leagues around the world, this really should not be happening because it does not happen or rarely  in any of the world's more established national teams. When was the last time an English player playing in the Championship started on the English national team over an English Premier League player?

Yes, but we also have to recognize that unlike most every other country, we dont have our own league or pyramid, and that there are numerous non football related obstacles that prevent our players from getting roster spots in MLS and Europe.  So its not like we have a system in place to ensure that the cream rises to the top.  

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I don't want to take anything away from him, as he has promise, but I find it hard to imagine we were really better with him and not Osorio or Teibert in there. Agree he has to play more, get more pace and experience, and that having a match vs. CR is not the way to do it. It is good for him, but not so great for the team.

[Club Linesman]

Really think the Wizard was thinking of his physical size to shut down Costa Rica.  Kaye is a big boy and he moves very well for his size.  As his football IQ increases and if he starts to get playing time somewhere he may become someone that can contribute to the CMNT.

[Unnamed Trialist]

34 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

Really think the Wizard was thinking of his physical size to shut down Costa Rica.  Kaye is a big boy and he moves very well for his size.  As his football IQ increases and if he starts to get playing time somewhere he may become someone that can contribute to the CMNT.

I perfectly understand that sometimes a limited, destructive task can be given to a player with lesser status, because he'll grab it. Whereas someone with more pedigree might not take to it. 

Still, considering what is at stake, and the recent lack of minutes for CMNT for Osorio, he would have taken it as a worthy challenge. And given us a hell of a lot more in possession, going forwards, tactically....

[Club Linesman]

I am an Osorio fan and would have loved to see him get on the field - still hope it happens tomorrow if a few starters are rested - but don't see him have the physical presence to do what Kaye did.  You also may have hit it on the head that Kaye was more inclined to do exactly what the role was because of his lesser status and that Osorio may have been more of a wildcard out there and not something the Wizard was willing to do.

[jonovision]

If there was another player to do the job asked of Kaye on Tuesday I think it's obviously Teibert, not Osorio.

[Free kick]

Usually, most star athletes will willingly accept lesser roles when they join national teams.  This is common in every sport. You see it in hockey, basketball and soccer.  National teams have to the best of the best and in every case it will be professional pedigree that is the determining factor.   When the experiment was tried with the hockey team at the Nagano olympics (ie.: selecting role players to fit every role), it failed miserably and what ended up happening is that if one or two front line plyers was off, suddenly you realise that you have trouble generating offense. Which is what happened, they had trouble scoring due to not have the offensive depth.   They ditched that idea totally and went with all-star teams and it yielded gold medals in 2002, 2010 and 2014.   It worked because talented athletes can adapt much better and have more diverse.  So you would see a star centre with centain club playing a fouth line checking role and being able to do it.

Soccer is different, but the principle (i believe) is the same in many ways.  Basically, you have players of defensive charcteristics,  creators and distributors, and goal scorers. You just have cover those bases off.   Osorio is not defender, and besides, he is not having a great year.  But then again, Kay was positioned mostly in the second or final third but did go box to box.  But i didnt (i just re watched the game) see that physical presence at all and it wasnt needed from what i could tell that his role was.  Also, it wasnt at all a physical game. Maybe the least physical game i have seen all year.  There are several of players on the bench or who werent on the squad (ie.; Johnson) who could have done that role.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Free kick

[SpecialK]

Canada needs to play more games and against  decent  competition ( your not gonna get that playing CONCACAF teams ) and develop a pool of players. Yes the CSA has taken one step with playing one game per window but that's not good enough. They need two games. More games would fix the problem  and help players like Kaye with their pro career by exposing them to scouts and gain experience. The CSA needs to support and  promote our players better to teams and to the  public .

Edited July 14, 2017 by SpecialK

[Northvansteve]

On 7/12/2017 at 10:06 AM, jonovision said:

His start in yesterday's match was less surprising to me than the fact he was included in the squad at all. I suspect OZ had a very specific job in mind for that position and Kaye had the physical attributes for it. I wouldn't be surprised, even if we play a game or two beyond the group stage, that those are his only minutes of the tournament.

This might be the most interesting insight I have yet seen on OZ's coaching strategy. I would cross-post with the OZ thread if i knew how. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Northvansteve

[BCM]

7 hours ago, 1996 said:

Yup have to agree you don't see this happen in many countries where guys from lower leagues take the spot of guys playing  in higher leagues on the national team, so this guy is not good enough to play on any of our three MLS teams but yet is good enough to play on the national team over guys who play in the MLS or other higher level leagues around the world, this really should not be happening because it does not happen or rarely  in any of the world's more established national teams. When was the last time an English player playing in the Championship started on the English national team over an English Premier League player?

Contra Ireland.

[Blackdude]

8 hours ago, 1996 said:

Yup have to agree you don't see this happen in many countries where guys from lower leagues take the spot of guys playing  in higher leagues on the national team, so this guy is not good enough to play on any of our three MLS teams but yet is good enough to play on the national team over guys who play in the MLS or other higher level leagues around the world, this really should not be happening because it does not happen or rarely  in any of the world's more established national teams. When was the last time an English player playing in the Championship started on the English national team over an English Premier League player?

David James in 03, I think.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, 1996 said:

Yup have to agree you don't see this happen in many countries where guys from lower leagues take the spot of guys playing  in higher leagues on the national team, so this guy is not good enough to play on any of our three MLS teams but yet is good enough to play on the national team over guys who play in the MLS or other higher level leagues around the world, this really should not be happening because it does not happen or rarely  in any of the world's more established national teams. When was the last time an English player playing in the Championship started on the English national team over an English Premier League player?

Rarely happened in Spain, I can think of one case, and even then the player, Salva Ballesta, was at At Madrid and the club had just relegated, in 2002; and it was for a friendly. Before that, in '93, a player who was technically Barça B was called to the senior team (Thomas Christiansen of all people, now coaching Leeds Utd) 

You are right that it is exceptional, but especially for the higher level teams that have all players in a top flight of a major league. And it is sort of a matter of principle, it is a hierarchy that is insisted upon, with the exception of say a senior player returns to Argentina or Brazil (of course still v. strong leagues) and plays for their nats.  I agree in principle with the principle: play the guys in the better league, because that is the clear way to indicate the incentive to the rest, who get to ride the bench.

Of course, all other countries have leagues, so they have literally dozens of players in their main league. We do not, our pool is thin and spread out, and we do not have tons of alternative journeymen in the top national league (MLS), which I suppose is what OZ perceives. 

[Yohan]

5 hours ago, Blackdude said:

David James in 03, I think.

David Nugent in 07

[yothat]

who's his agent ?! someone call him 

 

Get Kaye to a team where he plays regular mins .. prob another USL/NASL/Finland/Somewhere!!!

 

 

[Keegan]

8 minutes ago, yothat said:

who's his agent ?! someone call him 

 

Get Kaye to a team where he plays regular mins .. prob another USL/NASL/Finland/Somewhere!!!

 

 

Finland actually isn't a bad idea if you can't get into a usl or nasl team especially at his age... a lot more exposure. 

[Kent]

7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Of course, all other countries have leagues, so they have literally dozens of players in their main league. We do not, our pool is thin and spread out, and we do not have tons of alternative journeymen in the top national league (MLS), which I suppose is what OZ perceives. 

This. I'm not saying I agree with Kaye being called up, but it's not as preposterous/exceptional as if it were to happen for a country like England, Spain, or any country that has their own league.

A quick look shows that in 2016 there were 24 Canadian born players in MLS. Obviously that excludes some Canada eligible guys (like Will Johnson and Alphonso Davies), and includes some Canada ineligible guys (Emery Welshman and Teal Bunbury) but it's a pretty good rough estimate. Throw in the fact that several of those 24ish players don't see the field at all (Carducci, Ben McKendry, Richmond Laryea, Chris Manella, Quillan Roberts, Maxime Crepeau, Jeremy Gagnon-Lapare all played 0 minutes in 2016, and Marco Bustos played less than 90 minutes), and it becomes less ridiculous that we have 2nd tier players in our domestic-ish pyramid. Crepeau is essentially a USL player as well, and he got playing time against French Guiana.

Here's where I found the list of players. http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/mls-players-birthplace-2016-–-us-canada-jugadores-por-lugar-de-nacimiento-2016-eeuu-y-canadá

[Ivan]

So Kaye is not a starter/regular contributor for Louisville? 

[jonovision]

3 minutes ago, Ivan said:

So Kaye is not a starter/regular contributor for Louisville? 

He has 241 minutes over 5 appearances (3 starts) this season. I have no idea if injuries have been involved, but this is a big step down from his previous two USL seasons in terms of minutes and starts.

[Blackdude]

7 hours ago, Yohan said:

David Nugent in 07

No, Nugent never started for England. That's why I said David James, but I'm pretty sure that it was only for 6 months because West Ham relegated at the end of the 02-03 season and he only left for Man City during the winter transfer window after Seaman's retirement. 

At the time the only other 4 England goalkeepers that were starters in the EPL were 40 year old Seaman, Paul Robinson at a struggling Leeds that would get relegated by the end of the season and Ian Walker of Leicester who suffered the same fate and 37 year old Nigel Martyn at Everton who was supposed to be a back-up but played because of an injury to their #1 goalkeeper.

 

[Chad_Impact]

I'm a big fan of this kid. He came in out of position and didn't look out of place at all. I hope he can move to MLS or a decent league in Europe soon.