Montreal to affiliate/form USL team in 2015.

[LSM]

Exciting news. Looks like @Ted was right.

[ted]

^ Me, right?!? Can't be.

 

Never gonna happen. Must be some other Ted.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

 

There has been NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, from the CSA that says there will be no "new" USL Pro teams. That is either pure fantasy or some sort of backroom talk.

 

There may be a temporary suspension of "new" teams if the rumors are true (and they seem to be solid) of a possible expansion of the NASL in Canada based on a partnership between CSA, CFL and perhaps TSN. If that pans out I could see a case being made to suspend any further USL Pro teams until they sort out which markets might support teams in this new endeavor since markets that can support NASL are also going to be in consideration for USL Pro.  ie. here in Victoria the debate amongst fans is whether NASL or USL Pro is the appropriate level for us.

Sort of.

I've talked to Victor several times about this subject over the last 18-months. He was always clear that a) They were going to find a way to allow the MLS teams to operate USL-Pro teams (the 50+6 quota ended up being the answer), but he's always been equally clear that they will not allow additional USL-Pro teams beyond those attached to MLS teams.

Victoria is NOT going USL-Pro anytime soon. NASL or (my opinion ) BC needs to put its big boy pants on and actually create a D3 league.

L1O has got two kids European trials, solidified several scholarships and been the last piece in two players development before they went fully pro in Wilmington. Yes, it struggles at the gate, the gap between the top 3 and rest is too large and IdT was a mistake but overall L1O's launch should be proof that we can create our own solutions.

BC's way(constantly looking south with big, saucer eyes) has been the way we've done things for 30+ years. I 8-1 to tell you it doesn't work.

[VWFC]

BC's way(constantly looking south with big, saucer eyes) 

 

What does that mean?

[ted]

Victoria is NOT going USL-Pro anytime soon. NASL or (my opinion ) BC needs to put its big boy pants on and actually create a D3 league.

[snip]

BC's way(constantly looking south with big, saucer eyes) has been the way we've done things for 30+ years. I 8-1 to tell you it doesn't work.

 

I am curious in what way has "looking south" not worked for 30+ years? The PCSL has survived, the USL PDL division has been doing well.  Where exactly is the failure compared to the "success" of Ontario and Quebec?

Why shouldn't BC simply do what the "big boys" are already doing quite successfully? Are you suggesting that MLS was a bad thing? Are you suggesting that NASL and the proposed partnership will not work?

 

And I would remind you and the other geographically-challenged that Seattle and Portland are easier to get to from Vancouver than Edmonton and Calgary let alone markets further East. It makes a lot of sense to orient north-south out here on the coast.

[baulderdash77]

With all due respect Ted; while the Victoria Highlanders have been a success in that they have not gone bankrupt and have built a nice little fanbase; they have not been a success from the perspective of advancing Canadian Soccer. 

 

They are kinda maverick in that they play USA D4 and not the local Canadian D4 league; so they're not getting exposure or development on the scale that's going to create professional players or add to the national team depth.  Canada needs additional D1,D2,D3 player depth to expand our player pool.

 

Duane is pretty much spot on in his assessment.

[VWFC]

Are you suggesting that there is a team in "D4" in BC has done more to advance soccer in Canada than Victoria?  And what does said "D4" league do, specifically, that would improve Victoria ability to do more to develop Canadian soccer?   

 

Is it the saucer eyes or big boy pants in Duane's post that's "spot on"  

[shamrock]

What players have come through the ranks of Victoria then? What players other than those that went to the Caps (NASL) system have come out of BC? Clearly what has been going on isn't working.

 

You can say the same to Ontario or Quebec I know, but they've just started some changes there. It takes some time but eventually, having strong 3rd level competitions will benefit the MNT. And so will the USL Pro teams, as they will close the gap between academies and MLS. And even then you need more cause the difference between MLS and USL is enormous, but heck it's a start.

[VWFC]

You're the one making the claim that if Victoria played in this mysterious BC "D4" that they would contribute more to soccer in Canada, so Im asking you for specifics of how that would help?  

 

Since there is no D3 in BC, I'd say Victoria does a good job of providing a pro environment for young Canadians, while creating a good footballing environment that is helping to grow the game.  The ambition to play at the highest level they can is generally a good thing and if developing players is partly down to exposing these players to the highest level of play possible then yes they are doing a good job. Additionally, the success of the organization has proven that they could handle being a team in any future Canadian D3 league.  

 

Im not sure there are many non-professional organizations in Canada that can look down there noses and ask the question "how many CMNT players have you developed"?  Who comes out of anywhere these days without passing through one of the MLS or NASL teams?  I guess Sigma is the exception, but they even pass the kids onto university first.

[shamrock]

You're the one making the claim that if Victoria played in this mysterious BC "D4" that they would contribute more to soccer in Canada, so Im asking you for specifics of how that would help?  

 

No I didn't say that. I say a 3rd level LEAGUE will benefit player development more than a mere club.

 

My point was that if you look at the situation right now, with the MNT being ranked 122 (below Tadjikistan), it's clear that things have to change. Going on the same path will bring the same results. 

 

It will help that there will be development teams (Montreal, New West, TFC2?), it will also help to bring high level Provincial leagues for younger players. It would be beneficial to the long term of player development if BC had such  a leage, that's all I'm saying.

 

And of course I hope Highlanders will be part of that.

[ted]

With all due respect Ted; while the Victoria Highlanders have been a success in that they have not gone bankrupt and have built a nice little fanbase; they have not been a success from the perspective of advancing Canadian Soccer. 

 

They are kinda maverick in that they play USA D4 and not the local Canadian D4 league; so they're not getting exposure or development on the scale that's going to create professional players or add to the national team depth.  Canada needs additional D1,D2,D3 player depth to expand our player pool.

 

Duane is pretty much spot on in his assessment.

 

With all due respect, not going bankrupt and building a "nice little fanbase" are huge fucking advancements in Canadian Soccer and need to be replicated across the country.

 

Duane's assessment covers a lot more than the Highlanders who have only existed for 6 seasons. It also includes the PCSL from which Victoria United Alumni Josh Simpson featured for the national team program before he was so horribly injured.

 

Now, as has been pointed out there is no local Canadian D4 league so and that is sort of the point. All the leagues have been oriented north-south because that has worked thanks to our geography. Anyone who ignores geography in talking about past, current and future leagues is making a fairly egregious error.

 

 

 

You can say the same to Ontario or Quebec I know, but they've just started some changes there. It takes some time but eventually, having strong 3rd level competitions will benefit the MNT. And so will the USL Pro teams, as they will close the gap between academies and MLS. And even then you need more cause the difference between MLS and USL is enormous, but heck it's a start.

 

I am a proponent of, "strong 3rd level competitions" and have said so so many times that it is becoming tiresome. The USL Pro, an existing 3rd level competition,  is at least as strong as the leagues in Ontario and Quebec and it could be argued they are and will be stronger than these leagues.

 

I simply fail to see how more teams in the USL Pro hurts us. I fail to see how having more teams in the NASL hurts us. Frankly I don't understand what Duane is trying to say or what his goal is with this sort of talk.

A BC-only 3rd division would be weaker and less commercially successful than the PDL or USL Pro IMO. There is no evidence that playing against Penticton and Nanaimo will make better players and draw better crowds than playing Seattle, Portland or even Sacramento.

[VWFC]

No I didn't say that. I say a 3rd level LEAGUE will benefit player development more than a mere club.

 

Yes you did, you said: "They are kinda maverick in that they play USA D4 and not the local Canadian D4 league; so they're not getting exposure or development on the scale that's going to create professional players or add to the national team depth"

 

Oh course there is no local D4 league, but why should facts get in the way of a good west coast rant.

 

 

It will help that there will be development teams (Montreal, New West, TFC2?), it will also help to bring high level Provincial leagues for younger players.

 

A D3 league would be great, whether it be local or National.  As Ted says, if said D3 league were local, the best case would be a league based in Cascadia.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people realize that BC isn't on the same level as Ont & Que in terms of population and finances.  Greater Toronto has roughly 2 million more people than all of BC.  BC has roughly the same population as Alberta, but because Vancouver has a MLS team and Victoria has a PDL team it seems we are heald to a higher standard.  L1O has 9 teams from a population of 13 million, how many teams and to what quality do you think BC can support with 4 million?   

 

I'd say pound for pound BC, VWFC, and Victoria can be proud of what they contribute.

 

It would be beneficial to the long term of player development if BC had such  a leage, that's all I'm saying.

 

 

Unfortunately it isn't, you're calling them out for not being part of a non-existant D3, but if it were, I would agree that a Div 3 league in Canada or in the West/Cascadia is required.  I don't blame Vicotria for being ambitious and working with what they have, I congradulate that and I'm sure when the opportunity comes to join a D3 league they will.    

 

[shamrock]

Yes you did, you said: "They are kinda maverick in that they play USA D4 and not the local Canadian D4 league; so they're not getting exposure or development on the scale that's going to create professional players or add to the national team depth"

 

 

Now, where did I say that? You're the one talking about facts in the way, stop putting words in my mouth and just quote me. You can't cause I didn't say that.

 

Btw the Easton report clearly talks about 3rd level instead of 4th. However you think of USL, they got a loophole yes but any Provincial Leagues will be sanctioned 3rd level in Canada.

 

Right now competing against US opponants provides the highest level of competition I agree with you. But can't you see playing against Kelowna or Nanaimo means there's 3 Canadian teams instead of one and therefore provides MORE oportunities for Canadian players? More teams means more players which CAN/WILL lead to some talents finding there way up. 

 

No one here said Highlanders or whatever few teams you got out there is a bad thing or are doing a bad job. I just say it would better if there were more. 

 

One more point I'd like to ad here. Wether it's PDL, NPSL, Ontario League 1 or whatever, you can't develop anything with a 3 months playing schedule. If player development is a seriuos goal, you need at least 6 months and preferably longer. I know, colleges and all that crap,but it isn't working!

[ted]

One more point I'd like to ad here. Wether it's PDL, NPSL, Ontario League 1 or whatever, you can't develop anything with a 3 months playing schedule. If player development is a seriuos goal, you need at least 6 months and preferably longer. I know, colleges and all that crap,but it isn't working!

 

On this I wholeheartedly agree. I think for me the magic number is 20 competitive league matches plus VCup games. Anything less is just not good enough from either a player or a spectator perspective.

[VWFC]

Now, where did I say that? You're the one talking about facts in the way, stop putting words in my mouth and just quote me. You can't cause I didn't say that.

 

Btw the Easton report clearly talks about 3rd level instead of 4th. However you think of USL, they got a loophole yes but any Provincial Leagues will be sanctioned 3rd level in Canada.

 

Right now competing against US opponants provides the highest level of competition I agree with you. But can't you see playing against Kelowna or Nanaimo means there's 3 Canadian teams instead of one and therefore provides MORE oportunities for Canadian players? More teams means more players which CAN/WILL lead to some talents finding there way up. 

 

No one here said Highlanders or whatever few teams you got out there is a bad thing or are doing a bad job. I just say it would better if there were more. 

 

One more point I'd like to ad here. Wether it's PDL, NPSL, Ontario League 1 or whatever, you can't develop anything with a 3 months playing schedule. If player development is a seriuos goal, you need at least 6 months and preferably longer. I know, colleges and all that crap,but it isn't working!

 

Sorry Shamrock got your quotes mixed with baulderdash77.

 

No disagreement that a D3 would be beneficial. 

[BradMack]

So getting back on topic here, anybody have any idea what this team could look like next year? Would a guy like Jackson-Hamel be likely to star for them or stay in the MLS? No doubt JGL, Messoudi, and Crepeau would play there. What about a guy like Victor Ndiaye? 

[fuzzx]

There is no issue with choosing between MLS and USL, this is a super charged reserve squad and the whole point of being so close to home is that first team players can regularly play there.

 

I expect all the guys you mentioned to play regularly, as well as first team pros who need practice or conditioning on top of promising academy kids.

 

If Jack mac gets the job as primary striker and we convince MDV to stay as backup I can even see him playing occational USL minutes to stay fresh.