Jump to content

Garber hints at change to 'Canadians as internationals' rule.

Dub Narcotic

By Dub Narcotic
in Major League Soccer

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 451
  • Created
  • Last Reply
ted Mentor

ted

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, masster said:

Don Garber in Vancouver today:
 

#MLS Commisoner Don Garber asked about domestic rule. "I can't comment on NASL. It's a violation of US law."

Un-be-fucking-lievable. He is going to continue with the big lie?!!??!

Hey Don, the law only cares about being legally able to work in the US. Once hired and working you can assign staff as you see fit based on whatever criteria you like. Well, almost any criteria - I don't think you are going to make team selections based on race, sex or creed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ansem Veteran

Ansem

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, masster said:

Don Garber in Vancouver today:
 

#MLS Commisoner Don Garber asked about domestic rule. "I can't comment on NASL. It's a violation of US law."

Oh well... We have a "Gary Bettman" in training.

At this point I stand on the very controversial stand that CPL reach CFL level on every level. Once we have a team in the top 12 markets in Canada outside the big 3 and the league is thriving, I hope the CSA pulls the plug on this MLS party. GAME OVER

Give those 3 markets (within the top 15 most lucrative in North America) under CPL total control to take OUR league to the next level.

I'm mad :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kent Grand Master

Kent

Posted
Posted

Has he ever commented on the fact that USL considers Canadians as domestics? How does he rationalize his league having a partnership, including reserve teams, in a league whose roster rules breaks US law? I don't recall him talking about it, but perhaps I've forgotten.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Keegan Rookie

Keegan

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Kent said:

Has he ever commented on the fact that USL considers Canadians as domestics? How does he rationalize his league having a partnership, including reserve teams, in a league whose roster rules breaks US law? I don't recall him talking about it, but perhaps I've forgotten.

I actually never knew this, I thought that the league was just open like any other pro sports league in North America.. didn't realise just Canadians and Americans were domestic league wide.  

http://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/628858-usl-announces-competitions-rules-for-2016

That's probably the question to ask.  Garber must hate talking to our media and it's only going to get worse for him.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dyslexic nam Grand Master

dyslexic nam

Posted
Posted

I hope we keep pounding on this issue.  The fact that we have been treated as 2nd class citizens, on the basis of some ethereal legal issue that somehow doesn't apply to all other leagues, including a league that MLS itself is strongly affiliated with, should be something that our media hounds him about.  Anything less, and they are essentially complicit in our status as an MLS afterthought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ironcub14 Newbie

ironcub14

Posted
Posted

I did read about this US law a couple years ago, about US laws allowing employers to give preferential treatment to US citizens and green chard holders, and if they do impose foreigner employee/player restrictions, to be unable to discriminate one foreign nation vs another, ie, Canada vs other nations. I don't know if this law applies perfectly to MLS rosters, but this is the law American MLS fans seem to continue to point to.

I would first ask, how are Canadian MLS clubs allowed to treat Americans as domestics? Apparently, they don’t have an equivalent law in Canada?

And I would also ask, how exactly does NASL and USL maintain their quota of 7 foreigners, and yet are able to treat Canadians as domestics on American rosters? Are they really contravening that law below? Is the law not applicable in these cases? Are they just saying, f that law, nobody's going to enforce it anyways? I've looked casually, not in-depth, for the answer to this question, but haven't yet found a proper answer.

For me, the other big topic to be resolved will be: will CPL academies be counted as part of the approved academies for Canadian youth players into MLS? This really will be another huge issue that will rear its head soon, within the next 5-7 years.

I've only read the last two pages of this thread unfortunately; if there's anything in the thread that answers my questions, please do feel free to let me know. But no doubt, this topic is worth putting a tifo up at a MLS match. I’m honestly not sure how it’s going to be resolved. But we most definitely do need some answers, and to keep the pressure up on social media and in the stadiums. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/5si9rj/mls_commissioner_nasl_counting_canadians_as/

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/nationalorigin.cfm

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dub Narcotic Newbie

Dub Narcotic

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The NASL and USL aren't worth suing about this issue, the MLS probably is. Until this actually comes to a court, no one has a clear answer on the legality of this issue. The closest we came was Steven Sandor's informal chat with an American immigration lawyer but that certainly wasn't definitive.

Having said that, I don't see how this jury-rigged system in place now would survive any challenge that would topple a 100% Canadian domestic rule so they might as well go all the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ansem Veteran

Ansem

Posted
Posted

Nobody saw that?

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/3055821/mls-would-subsidize-beckham-caliber-dp-for-canadian-clubs-garber

MLS would subsidize Beckham-caliber DP for Canadian clubs - Don Garber

One of the options the league would consider, according to Garber, is subsidizing moves by its Canadian franchises to bring big-name players born in the country back home. The commissioner likened the rationale for the idea to the league's thinking when it helped the LA Galaxy acquire Beckham in 2007.

"We're doing [this] for the same reason we subsidized LA to bring in David Beckham -- because we believed that's in the best interests of Major League Soccer."

Garber talked about bringing back a Canadian international such as Atiba Hutchinson, who currently plays in the Turkish league for Besiktas, as the type of player he had in mind for a subsidized DP.

"I know there has been interest in bringing Atiba home," Garber said. "I don't know why a deal was never done with him, so I can't comment on that. As we did with the top American players, we do need to bring as many of the top Canadian players home to Canada to play in Major League Soccer.

"We want our league and our clubs to be a league of choice."

 

He's going at it the wrong way. The best solution would be Canadians as domestics and it's cheaper to do. Bringing to MLS Canadians already playing in D1 and D2 leagues in Europe must be the last thing the CSA wants. MLS subsidizing their salaries so MLS Canadian teams can match or exceed what they are being paid in Europe is very MLS Centric and would be a step back for the national program. Our players are smart enough to know that, like Hoilett preferring to stay unattached then joining an MLS club.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ted Mentor

ted

Posted
Posted
On 2017-02-08 at 0:21 PM, ironcub14 said:

I did read about this US law a couple years ago, about US laws allowing employers to give preferential treatment to US citizens and green chard holders, and if they do impose foreigner employee/player restrictions, to be unable to discriminate one foreign nation vs another, ie, Canada vs other nations. I don't know if this law applies perfectly to MLS rosters, but this is the law American MLS fans seem to continue to point to.

<sigh>

There is a big difference between being "allowed" to do something and being "forced" to do something. Garber and the MLS have been claiming the big, mean government FORCES them to do it when in fact they are simply ALLOWED to do it.

No one is making any argument that they don't have the legal right to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dyslexic nam Grand Master

dyslexic nam

Posted
Posted

I know this is a pretty basic strategy, but has anyone tried a petition (or threat of boycott) to push this issue?  I realize I am probably disproportionately invested in this issue compared to lots of MLS fans, but insofar as it is a discretionary decision by MLS (which clearly seems to be the case), we could collectively push Garber to change the policy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ironcub14 Newbie

ironcub14

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, ted said:

<sigh>

There is a big difference between being "allowed" to do something and being "forced" to do something. Garber and the MLS have been claiming the big, mean government FORCES them to do it when in fact they are simply ALLOWED to do it.

No one is making any argument that they don't have the legal right to do it.

Are you referring to this part, "to be unable to discriminate one foreign nation vs another", when you say that, right?

I was just reiterating, in my post, what I've read over the years that's come closest to a definitive understanding of that US law I linked. Like I said above, I don't know if that is a correct understanding or reading of that law or not, or how applicable it is to MLS rosters. But from what I've read on Reddit and BigSoccer over the years, really casually, apparently, the big mean US government is very much forcing them to not discriminate one foreign nation vs another.

I'm no MLS apologist, and I've tried to skim this 18-pager thread quickly to look for a better understanding of that law, but I just came across a bunch of unrelated CPL comments, so I gave up looking for it. If somebody can point me to a more accurate understanding of that law and how it applies to MLS rosters, I would hugely appreciate it.

And yes, anybody can make the snappy comment that "oh well the fact that Canada is treated as a foreign nation in American MLS clubs tells you all you need to know", but that would just be ignoring the 100+ years of professional sports/footy history in US and Canada, I won't get any further into it than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dyslexic nam Grand Master

dyslexic nam

Posted
Posted

At the very least, I would like to see the CSA implement a structured plan to move to equal treatment of US players on Canadian soil.  We don't have any leverage to force MLS to make the change for American teams, and it seems like MLS is either unable or unwilling to do anything about it, so the CSA should reciprocate.  Do it on a time frame that allows our 3 clubs to develop players through their academies, bug no more cheap American journeymen getting benefits here we are not receiving south of the border.  And that isn't simple retaliation - it would force our clubs to maximize Canadian development efforts and opportunities.  Ultimately, is the only lever we have in addressing this issue.  I think we should use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kent Grand Master

Kent

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

At the very least, I would like to see the CSA implement a structured plan to move to equal treatment of US players on Canadian soil.  We don't have any leverage to force MLS to make the change for American teams, and it seems like MLS is either unable or unwilling to do anything about it, so the CSA should reciprocate.  Do it on a time frame that allows our 3 clubs to develop players through their academies, bug no more cheap American journeymen getting benefits here we are not receiving south of the border.  And that isn't simple retaliation - it would force our clubs to maximize Canadian development efforts and opportunities.  Ultimately, is the only lever we have in addressing this issue.  I think we should use it.

Back before CPL news was first broken, I really wanted CSA/MLS to raise the Canadian player quota per Canadian team year over year. The 3 player limit is so low I don't think any of the 3 teams have come close to being in danger of not reaching it. At the time (like 3 years ago) I think the 3 Canadian teams had something like 7 to 9 Canadian players each, so there was no reason to not bump it up from 3 to 5 or 6 just to lock down those roster spots.

Perhaps (wild speculation time... which is all the time on this site) with the talk of CPL having a quota of 3 or 4 Canadians to start out, with the potential to raise it gradually, maybe the plan is for that quota to apply to all D1 teams in Canada (so CPL and MLS). Then somewhere down the line we could be looking at teams with something like a 15 Canadian player quota in both CPL and MLS (for the Canadian teams). That would be OK with me. I can dream right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ironcub14 Newbie

ironcub14

Posted
Posted

I think that if we want to see the 3 Canadian MLS clubs be forced to raise the quotas on Canadian players and/or to force the issue of Americans as foreigners on the 3 Canadian MLS clubs, that's a matter that the supporters have to raise in the stands and on social media.

I'm sure CSA is doing the best it can, but the MLS clubs have little incentive to change or "penalize" themselves, unless it comes directly from the supporters themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...