Canadian Division 1A - Why We Need It

[ted]

This. This is exactly the reason this league needs to happen. Kids DO get inspired by watching top talent, especially if they're able to see the games live, meet the players, everything. It really does all add up.

 

 

Let's stop giving reasons why it can't work, and instead focus our energy on how it can work and what needs to be done to get it there.

 

Yep.

 

I have reservations and it may not be what I would have done but if it happens I am willing to give it a chance.

[Tuscan]

I know I'm taking the approach of at least trying to get people in the soccer community in Saskatoon talking about it, even if 99% of the talk from their end is ultra-pessimistic and negative, scoffing at the idea. There might be a few murders in Saskatoon over the coming months, just saying.

[DigzTFC]

John McGrane's interview with Totera (John McGrane works with Bob Young's - Hamilton prospective owner):

 

(36 minute mark)

http://www.nextsport...august-19-2014/

 

- He's had talks with prospective owners

- No football lines on the pitch

- Manadated that turf will have paintable lines like Hamilton, Ottawa, Saskatchewan 

- Calgary and Edmonton need new turf

- TV production needs to be high

- Praises CFL for having high TV producion while competing with inferior product to NFL

- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"

- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market

- Affiliation with clubs globally is a possbility but no ethnic names - mentions Europe & South America

- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap

- DP will not be a part of the picture from the beginning - run like a business not a "philanthropic adventure"

- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000

- Expect 5-6 years of substantial losses.  10 year plan for turnaround.

- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota

- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time

- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules.

[A_Gagne]

Makes sense... This is all music to my ears!

[TFC07]

John McGrane's interview with Totera (John McGrane works with Bob Young's - Hamilton prospective owner):

 

(36 minute mark)

http://www.nextsport...august-19-2014/

 

- He's had talks with prospective owners

- No football lines on the pitch

- Manadated that turf will have paintable lines like Hamilton, Ottawa, Saskatchewan 

- Calgary and Edmonton need new turf

- TV production needs to be high

- Praises CFL for having high TV producion while competing with inferior product to NFL

- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"

- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market

- Affiliation with clubs globally is a possbility but no ethnic names - mentions Europe & South America

- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap

- DP will not be a part of the picture from the beginning - run like a business not a "philanthropic adventure"

- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000

- Expect 5-6 years of substantial losses.  10 year plan for turnaround.

- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota

- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time

- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules.

 

I wonder why this story isn't getting much press?  

[shermanator]

The following points are interesting in that they are stating from the start the aim is to develop Canadian talent, but in order to keep it sustainable they need to get the talent level up (ie. to sell tickets)

 

- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota

- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time

- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules.

[DigzTFC]

I wonder why this story isn't getting much press?  

Because it was on Anthony Totera's show.  It is literally the best source for local soccer politics and the Two Solitudes a close second.  The main stream media say they care.....but they don't.  Plus, John McGrane wouldn't be representing the league in any official capacity.

[A_Gagne]

- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"

- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market

- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap

- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000

 

 

 

If they can actually produce a product that meets those criteria, I would question the strategy of tying themselves to longterm to NASL. How many NASL teams have 8 figure ownership and weekly top class TV broadcasts? To me that sounds like a product that would outclass it's southern counterpart in short order.  

[DigzTFC]

I am a bit confused on that too.  Montagliani and John McGrane's input on the issue seem to point toward a standalone league rather than a division within NASL. The idea of a 1A league doesn't jive with Duane Rollins report.  I think there is some miscommunication going on.  Maybe Rollins misheard something.

[Sam]

I am a bit confused on that too.  Montagliani and John McGrane's input on the issue seem to point toward a standalone league rather than a division within NASL. The idea of a 1A league doesn't jive with Duane Rollins report.  I think there is some miscommunication going on.  Maybe Rollins misheard something.

 

My guess is the CSA just wants a Canadian league and are exploring every avenue they can. Sandor's report of a Div 1A and Rollins' report of a CFL-CSA partnership league are probably just two of the different possibilities the CSA have explored in trying to create their own league. 

[CDNFootballer]

 

If they can actually produce a product that meets those criteria, I would question the strategy of tying themselves to longterm to NASL. How many NASL teams have 8 figure ownership and weekly top class TV broadcasts? To me that sounds like a product that would outclass it's southern counterpart in short order.  

 

 

All NASL teams have 8 figure ownership as its one of the requirements of the league and USSF(specifically one person who is worth at least 20 million as a major owner of each club).

All NASL teams have local TV Broadcasts deals except Fort Lauderdale Strikers.

Being a league within a league as NASL Canada L1 or whatever they will call it gives the league instant credibility and a higher profile not to mention they will draw more fans with having some games each season against the NASL American League teams like the New York Cosmos, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Ft Lauderdale Strikers etc and have the support of the existing NASL league.

 

I am a bit confused on that too.  Montagliani and John McGrane's input on the issue seem to point toward a standalone league rather than a division within NASL. The idea of a 1A league doesn't jive with Duane Rollins report.  I think there is some miscommunication going on.  Maybe Rollins misheard something.

 

 

Its a league within a league like Major League Baseball so that may be where some of the confusion comes in but the players are definately the NASL, CSA, and TSN together on this.

 

Steve Sandor talks about the NASL Canada League in this podcast from last Monday :

 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/soccersupportersradionetwork/2014/08/19/ultras-alive-145

[DigzTFC]

Steve Sandor Podcast Highlights:

 

- The CSA partnering with Traffic Sports is a good for the CSA's push for the WC 2026

- Traffic Sports owns NASL teams, is a major operations contributor to league, are media baron in South America, and are player agents

- Traffic sports has a lot of clout in CONCACAF which could improve Canada's chances for the World Cup

- Traffic owns the media rights for the NASL and presumably see the chance with the CSA for their 2026 bid for the WC rights

- The CSA has worked very hard with FIFA on the bid and has climbed the ladder by holding various successful FIFA tournaments

- The division 1A is not tied to the bid but it increases its viability if we have a league

- The american hosts were concerned about it creating instability and the league taking on too much

- Happen within 2 years - same as what John McGrane said

- It works for NASL because the CSA can sanction NASL as division 1 pushing the discussion with MLS

- CSA/NASL/CFL Owners/TSN are all involved

- Per capita Canada's viewership of the World Cup is double that of the USA

- 4 CFL owners suppose to be involved - Calgary, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Saskatchewan - same as John McGrane

- Whispers out of Victoria that the highlanders want to be in NASL.

- No teams rumored from Ontario, Quebec or Maritimes

- The idea is not to force TFC, VWC, or Impact to leave MLS but make the league enticing enough to join it over time

- Brought up the Canadian non-domestic designation as one of the motivations to make this division

- Self-fulfilling prophecy of Canaa dropping in World Ranking and player Canadian player image abroad looking for jobs

- Example Paul Hamilton - 2 years ago was Starting 11 for NASL - now out of pro soccer.  Limited options bc international status

- NASL has learned about making annoucements before they were solidified - that's why its quiet.

[Blackdude]

I do think that one big point made by Sandor was that you need an airline company as a partner. Also digz, Hamilton and Ottawa are in Ontario last time I checked.

[DigzTFC]

Yes you're right.  I was jotting down notes while listening. 

 

He said outside of the 6-7 clubs (Hamilton, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Regina and Victoria) there hasn't been other rumours out of Quebec, Ontario and the Maritimes.  But the intent was for the Division/League to grow over time.

 

But I'm sure my summary was appreciated as you skillfully displayed.

[An Observer]

Good to see Regina in.  A 6 to 7 team league sounds good and they seem to be making all the right noises (turf, tv, deep pocketed owners, long term plan) but somewhat concerned they would be absent in the 3 main media markets in the country.

[An Observer]

I know they want to entice the MLS sides in over time.  I actually think that if in 5 to 10 years they can develop this league into 10k to 15k per side attendance, the more likely scenario is a merger into the MLS.  The MLS will not like the Canadian league stealing its fans and its share of the money north of the border, and risking losing its 3 Canadian sides.

[baulderdash77]

Thanks for the summary Digz.  It was very helpful.

 

I noticed "The idea is not to force TFC, VWC, or Impact to leave MLS but make the league enticing enough to join it over time"

 

Interesting because there has been a lot of discussion on here about that.  I wonder how it would play out in Canada having a 7 team pro league without them included.  Lots of local & rabid fans out there potentially but a great CFL quality TV contract would be much better with them included and also lend major credibility to the league.

[baulderdash77]

I know they want to entice the MLS sides in over time.  I actually think that if in 5 to 10 years they can develop this league into 10k to 15k per side attendance, the more likely scenario is a merger into the MLS.  The MLS will not like the Canadian league stealing its fans and its share of the money north of the border, and risking losing its 3 Canadian sides.

 

Very true.  Those 3 franchises are very important to MLS as a league.  It's their #2,#3 and #7 revenue and attendance markets.  It would be a major void that they could not replace.

[DigzTFC]

The smartest thing MLS could do is allow the Canadian MLS clubs to put a reserve squad/b-team in the Canadian NASL division.  To be honest, I don't think the Canadian MLS teams will ever leave the league. 

 

I wonder what Garber was referring to when he said they would find a compromise for the CSA over the Canadian domestic rule.  Details were never released and maybe that could be the compromise.  MLS teams aren't allowed to own NASL teams under the current bargaining agreement.  The CBA expires at the end of the season.

[Guest ClaytonA]

All sounds good, even with a smaller salary cap it'd be good. 

 

Personally I'd like the Can-con to be higher or at least an announced schedule for raising min Can-con, but this is how Canadian players were handled when the NASL got started (except in Vancouver where they had a lot of local talent), and CSL/CPSL/Red Leaf Cup plans from 1980-1983.  With the NASL dying, the CSL only had two or four imports, can't remember, when it finally started in 1987.  With five teams this is close (min six teams, for 20 game sched) to being able to be a stand-alone league without even having to play games in the U.S kowtow to the USSF.

 

re airline sponsorship - IIRC in the last years of the CSL, part of the "league fees" was that the league bought all flight tickets, in one shot (ie negotiated purchase) before the season started and travel costs were split equally between all teams.  This was a burden for some of the ON-Que teams and a benefit for the (fewer) more geographically seperated Western teams.  Part of the negotiation also involved sponsorship opportunities, but it was ancilliary to who gave the best cash price and purchasing terms likely.  There could be some purchasing power doing it this way again.  Travel costs are a big expense, and there are bigger issues.

 

re MLS, the CSA does ultimately carry the hammer if they ever want to use it, FIFA sanctioning.  I wouldn't want them to use it as I think the way MLS is set up as a single entity, they could be more challenging to make peace with afterward.  For example MLS, not the teams, owns all intellectual property like team names, myabe contract leases on facilities?, etc.  MLS despite what some media (Schad, Norman et al) say does not need us, we're nice to have, but they also have several other strong, healthy U.S. markets.  I also don't like the way MLS is working to set up a farm league type and closed academy system to preclude competing clubs with them having monopolistic power over player development.  How has that worked in at least one province in the past 10 years?  I know, I know, get with the times, sports (and increasingly youth sports) is a business, not some contribution to the community - what do you expect?  The point is the transitiion of said business given MLS's single entity nature could all get messy too.

[Guest ClaytonA]

The smartest thing MLS could do is allow the Canadian MLS clubs to put a reserve squad/b-team in the Canadian NASL division.  To be honest, I don't think the Canadian MLS teams will ever leave the league. 

 

I wonder what Garber was referring to when he said they would find a compromise for the CSA over the Canadian domestic rule.  Details were never released and maybe that could be the compromise.  MLS teams aren't allowed to own NASL teams under the current bargaining agreement.  The CBA expires at the end of the season.

 

Reserve teams impair the legitimacy of the competition; keep them out of this league please.  We were talking about credability at the top of the page.

 

They parachute players in and out at times based on the parent club's needs, not junior's.  The players don't really want to be there.  The players don`t plan to be there; therefore, they live in a hotel room, have much less incentive to get involved in the community, etc.  Their main aim is not to win, but to get up (again) to the first team.  The teams sometimes try experimental things, like playing a player out of position, and it doesn`t matter if they suffer a blow-out loss.

[DigzTFC]

I'm of two minds on this.  If it's only 3 teams then it seems manageable.  It's not the entire league.  I think it do well to have the best Canadian prospects showcased in the league.  It would be a shame to have those players that are with the MLS clubs systems going to USL Pro.

[Yohan]

My understanding is that a federation can only sanction one div 1 league? So how is NASL going to twist CSA's arm to have it sanctioned as Canadian div 1 without Canadian MLS teams being pissed off at CSA? Money talks. NASL doesn't have enough.

 

I also don't understand the logic of hitching onto NASL's wagon. NASL looks very unstable and a lot of their teams are going to be in a turf war with MLS/USL teams for fans. Attendance is not very good either for most teams.

[toontownman]

Good to see Regina in.  A 6 to 7 team league sounds good and they seem to be making all the right noises (turf, tv, deep pocketed owners, long term plan) but somewhat concerned they would be absent in the 3 main media markets in the country.

Think they would be better of having the Roughrider team in Saskatoon, total bias though!

Think it has been mentioned before that the Roughriders are owned by the city of Regina, so unlikely they would let the franchise be based elsewhere. Plus isn't the appeal for CFL teams to have their grounds used in the CFL offseason?

Certainly a better interest in Saskatoon from a soccer standpoint and fan base though, much more of a soccer city and crying out for a pro sports team. What makes the Roughriders so unique is that it unites the whole province, having a Roughrider Franchise in either city would be cool. Still driving two hours to Regina to watch pro soccer is better than four to Edmonton.

[toontownman]

Thanks for the summary Digz.  It was very helpful.

 

I noticed "The idea is not to force TFC, VWC, or Impact to leave MLS but make the league enticing enough to join it over time"

 

Interesting because there has been a lot of discussion on here about that.  I wonder how it would play out in Canada having a 7 team pro league without them included.  Lots of local & rabid fans out there potentially but a great CFL quality TV contract would be much better with them included and also lend major credibility to the league.

It's a tough one. I like that Canadian teams are in the MLS. It will without be one of the top leagues in the world in another 10 years or so. There is absolutely no way a Canadian league would ever eclipse the MLS IMO. As such I don't see TFC, VWC, or Impact ever leaving. The biggest danger for the Canadian league would be the MLS trying to cherry pick the successful franchises and add them to the MLS. IMO.

The idea of those three having a reserve side take part in the league would be ok, but really defines the Canadian league as secondary. I'd say the best bet is to involve the three MLS teams in the Canadian Championship, but not the league. Would CONCACAF be open to, or pursuaded to give a CL spot to the league winner of a Canadian league? If the league exists there should be and extra spot in the CL.