BuzzAndSting Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Cosmos are a big draw because of : 1) History as the USA's most iconic club and internationally known. 2) Raul, Senna, and the quality of the rest of their roster. 3) They are the premier club of the league 4) They do things big & in a professional first class manner, This year they've already played friendlies in Hong Kong drawing over 20K (where they won 200K, more than the MLS cup winner gets), Honduras drawing 30K, and Cuba last week drawing 18K. Don't discount who knows their name as well, my co worker is 20yrs old and wasn't around for the original NASL and he still know of the club. If you think Calgary or Hamilton or another Canadian market would rather be seen your kidding yourself or not informed. Cosmos are the biggest drawing club in the NASL on the road. Sorry I just don't believe it. I bet if you polled every Ottawa Fury fan at an average home game I bet they can't name every team in the league let alone know who the Cosmos are. Sure "New York Cosmos" might be recognizable as a brand but it isn't a draw. I'm way more knowledgable than the average fan the Fury are trying to attract and I couldn't tell you anything about Raul or Senna. There's no way the average fan has any idea what the Cosmos have been up to in terms of friendlies, let alone cares. Can't speak to other markets but the Fury are marketing to families, all they care about are price and a good time. A new league developed by CFL ownership would have coverage on a major market and that will do more than anything the NASL currently offers. Edit: just checked the attendance numbers for 2014 and the Cosmos don't offer any noticeable bump in tickets sales in any market. Info here; http://dohertysoccer.com/2014-lower-division-american-soccer-attendances/2014-nasl-season-attendance-log/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 ^Yeah it looks like the attendance is pretty much the same when the Cosmos come to town. That confirms common sense. Time of the week is much more important than who the opposition is. The only recent exception I can think of is when David Beckham would come to town in his early years but in recent years the visiting team doesn't move the needle much. For Toronto FC their marquee games are when Montreal comes to town because there's an actual rivalry there. There's plenty of existing and relevant sports rivalries in Canada because of the NHL and CFL. Those are going to drive attendance more than a diminished artificially revived Cosmos brand that doesn't matter anymore. If the Cosmos brand means so much to someone (38 years after Pele retired) they're probably such a hard core soccer fan that they would go to the game anyways. It's like saying "Wow the Philadelphia Flyers are coming to town. I loved Bobby Clarke and the Broad Street Bullies in 1975 let's go to the game". Nobody says or thinks that, it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerHoota Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Don't think anyone has brought this up so far, so Im curious. What do people think the CIS involvement should be in this league if it comes to fruition? A draft similar to the NCAA/MLS or the possibility of the better players going on loan type scenarios during their school offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Would 16,000 fans stop going to the Vancouver Whitecaps if it was in BC Place, part of a Canadian League, playing on TSN TV every game against all the other major domestic markets (serious question, I don't know Vancouver's soccer market)? The BC Lions manage to get 28,000 fans per game under the same setup. I'm just wondering what would make the soccer market different. I don't know how many people would stop going, but I do believe there is a fair number that would stop going. If the drop in level of play was significant, not just for the home team but the opposition as well, I think that number would be fairly large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Edit: just checked the attendance numbers for 2014 and the Cosmos don't offer any noticeable bump in tickets sales in any market. Info here; http://dohertysoccer.com/2014-lower-division-american-soccer-attendances/2014-nasl-season-attendance-log/ Actually they do if you look at the data and understand what your looking at and extenuating circumstances that sometimes occur ie weather being a factor for some matches like they were in 2014. Wonder why Ottawa picked the New York Cosmos to be their home opener at TD place where they drew 14.5K, FC Edmonton's largest crowd was vs the Cosmos in 2014 at 4399 and another one of their biggest at 3800+ as well, big draw for the Eddies usually. Sellout in San Antonio 8200+ in 2014. Lets look at Cosmos drawing on the road in 2015 : record attendance in Ft Lauderdale at 11691, Atlanta over capacity at 5500+, Carolina 7217 and biggest of this year, and last week in Minnesota over capacity at 9300. Cosmos are a draw and its been proven. Other NASL clubs have more drawing power as well over Canadian markets. The more likely successful Canadian D1 A league would be a NASL Canada League within a league (like in MLB) in NASL with some games vs an NASL American League, support of an established league and some US market matches coming to Canada. I hope the Canadian D1A comes to fruition regardless though either way and look forward to the day it arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Do people support the Canadian MLS teams because they're going to see the NY Red Bulls, Philadelphia Union and Chicago Fire 1x per year each? I don't believe that for a second. I doubt 10% of the fans at the Canadian MLS games know more than 1 player on the other team. Canadian MLS fans support their team because a) they're local and b] gameday production quality & perceived league quality is good. I don't think there's honestly anything else than that. Let's ask a question, and I'm not suggesting this is going to happen. If the 3 MLS teams moved to a Canadian only Canadian Premier League; would their team attendance really drop from the levels now ? Would TV ratings decline from 150k per game and would sponsors & corporate support drop if they played home games against only Canadian teams? I'm not sure that's true. I don't think that is the problem here. The big issue would be that the MLS-owners are shareholders of the league. Why would they give that up? It is the US sports-league with the best growth- and profit projections. One could see the big clubs sponsoring their Reserves teams for this league, instead of USL Pro. For that the level should be at least equivalent to USL. Which would probably take some time but why not? I think it would be cheaper anyway. And I also think there's room for competitors in the MLS-regions to be successful. GTA can easily handle more than 1 team in the new league, and I'd guess Montreal and Van too. There's always going to be people who like to support "the other" team, like you see with New York City for example. They draw better than the Redbulls! You do need the NASL-teams to switch alliance though. I think FC Edmonton would be miles ahead of any new team with their academy and all, but that would be great. They could be the team to beat instead of a team that competes for the nr 3 spot in NASL. Might even bring up their attendance as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Don't think anyone has brought this up so far, so Im curious. What do people think the CIS involvement should be in this league if it comes to fruition? A draft similar to the NCAA/MLS or the possibility of the better players going on loan type scenarios during their school offseason? This is a great question and one that I've mulled over in my head the last few years. In some cities, Saskatoon being a prime example, the uni soccer program is THE main version of formalised soccer in the city. Not only that but here in town the manager of the Huskies also happens to run the Whitecaps Saskatchewan Academy, so he controls almost exclusively the pipeline of high-performance players on the boys side. I would hope that university soccer would somehow be factored in, but I think it would be more of an impact on a division 3 league (sort of a CHL) than on a D1A. Regardless, it's a great question and one that would have to be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Actually they do if you look at the data and understand what your looking at and extenuating circumstances that sometimes occur ie weather being a factor for some matches like they were in 2014. Wonder why Ottawa picked the New York Cosmos to be their home opener at TD place where they drew 14.5K, FC Edmonton's largest crowd was vs the Cosmos in 2014 at 4399 and another one of their biggest at 3800+ as well, big draw for the Eddies usually. Sellout in San Antonio 8200+ in 2014. Lets look at Cosmos drawing on the road in 2015 : record attendance in Ft Lauderdale at 11691, Atlanta over capacity at 5500+, Carolina 7217 and biggest of this year, and last week in Minnesota over capacity at 9300. Cosmos are a draw and its been proven. Other NASL clubs have more drawing power as well over Canadian markets. The more likely successful Canadian D1 A league would be a NASL Canada League within a league (like in MLB) in NASL with some games vs an NASL American League, support of an established league and some US market matches coming to Canada. I hope the Canadian D1A comes to fruition regardless though either way and look forward to the day it arrives. For the first 17 weeks here's the breakdown. Week 1 - home Week 2 - Ottawa opens a new stadium, nothing to do with the Cosmos. Week 3 - below Ft Lauderdale average Week 4 - home Week 5 - home Week 6 - below Tampa average Week 7 - home Week 8 - bye Week 9 - home Week 10 - home Week 11 - above Carolina average Week 12 - above Edmonton average Week 13 - home Week 14 - home Week 15 - below Minnesota average Week 16 - home Week 17 - above San Antonio average If you knock out the Ottawa game, which was the first soccer or football match played at TD Place so I don't think it mattered who they were playing, it balances out. 3 away games above average and 3 below. Even if you we're to count attendance to the number above or below it looks to be about even. If the Cosmos were such a big draw I think you would notice a larger, more obvious trend. I don't have time to go through the rest of last year or this year right now but I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 For the first 17 weeks here's the breakdown. Week 1 - home Week 2 - Ottawa opens a new stadium, nothing to do with the Cosmos.(lets be honest, they picked the Cosmos for a reason) Week 3 - below Ft Lauderdale average (Yes, slightly below their average) Week 4 - home Week 5 - home Week 6 - below Tampa average (actually Atlanta not Tampa, they had over 3800 as there was severe weather that day, an extenuating circumstance I talked about, torential rain and lighting delay) http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/cosmos2.php?article_id=37971 Week 7 - home (This was the Tampa game and yes, slightly under their average) Week 8 - bye Week 9 - home Week 10 - home Week 11 - above Carolina average Week 12 - above Edmonton average Week 13 - home Week 14 - home Week 15 - below Minnesota average (close to the same actually without the 34K doubleheader friendly that skewed their average) Week 16 - home Week 17 - above San Antonio average If you knock out the Ottawa game, which was the first soccer or football match played at TD Place so I don't think it mattered who they were playing, it balances out. 3 away games above average and 3 below. Even if you we're to count attendance to the number above or below it looks to be about even. If the Cosmos were such a big draw I think you would notice a larger, more obvious trend. I don't have time to go through the rest of last year or this year right now but I will. You've gone thru the Fall Season 2014 with that list, my editing in bold italics. Atlanta had the terrible weather, Minnesota skewed. My 2015 numbers only don't include Indy who always sells out and all the other 4 games I showed from this year clearly show the trend of Cosmos as the big draw. Here's the 2015 for you : 2015 New York Cosmos drawing power Fort Lauderdale - Above, blew away all time record at 11691 Indy - Sell Out as always every game Atlanta - Above 5500+ Carolina - Above 7217 Minnesota - Above 9300+, over capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 You've gone thru the Fall Season 2014 with that list, my editing in bold italics. Atlanta had the terrible weather, Minnesota skewed. My 2015 numbers only don't include Indy who always sells out and all the other 4 games I showed from this year clearly show the trend of Cosmos as the big draw. Here's the 2015 for you : 2015 New York Cosmos drawing power Fort Lauderdale - Above, blew away all time record at 11691 Indy - Sell Out as always every game Atlanta - Above 5500+ Carolina - Above 7217 Minnesota - Above 9300+, over capacity Good points but I still don't believe that the Cosmos have any influential pull in most city's. What's their own home attendance? Is it even above the league average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Oh lord, The Cosmos are a decent enough draw even for Canada cities. However, that is it. A Canadian city will do much better than Atlanta or the Rowdies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If they are going to have Eastern/Western conferences in a ten-team league that means that Ottawa, for example, will be playing Mocton probably five times a year. I dare say whatever fizz there is from these domestic matchups will disappear awfully quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1zzurri Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If they are going to have Eastern/Western conferences in a ten-team league that means that Ottawa, for example, will be playing Mocton probably five times a year. I dare say whatever fizz there is from these domestic matchups will disappear awfully quickly. This!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If they are going to have Eastern/Western conferences in a ten-team league that means that Ottawa, for example, will be playing Mocton probably five times a year. I dare say whatever fizz there is from these domestic matchups will disappear awfully quickly. No kidding. Home and home in league play and run a seperate league cup competition for a maximum of three games (unless a cup replay is required). Playing the same teams multiple times is a signal to fans and media that a league is second or third-rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Home-and-away is only eighteen games total, that's only a few more than a PDL schedule. I think they will have to do a variation on the MLS schedule: 3 against conference rivals, home-and-away against the other conference teams. That gets you to 22, a couple more for league and Voyageurs cup games, and I assume there will be a playoff round with 2-3 in each conference playing each other, then the winner against the first team and the first teams playing each other for the Mike Duffy Cup. Around 25 to 30 games per season per team is not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 We need a minimum of 20 competitive matches and adding the VCup as an actual cup tournament would get us there with a home and away aggregate system. The better way to add more games will be to add more teams which I would hope we eventually could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 They could also take the L1O format with an in-season Cup- assuming 10 teams League: 18 matches Cup (split into two groups of five, play each team once followed by semis/finals): 4-6 matches Playoffs (two legs semi + final): 2-3 matches V's Cup: 1+ matches So a minimum of 22 matches and a potential maximum of 27 excluding V's Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Good points but I still don't believe that the Cosmos have any influential pull in most city's. What's their own home attendance? Is it even above the league average? New York Cosmos average is slightly above the league average. They're in a market with 2 other pro teams and waiting for their stadium proposal to be approved so they can move to a better location than they're at now with regards to being more central to the city and on a major transit line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Moncton is looking good for the WWC matches, they do have a nice stadium and although they only have a greater Moncton population around 138K I hope they get a club in this new Canadian D1A league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I think the Toronto club's ownership has to be highly ambitious in this league. I am talking big spending, hardcore development system and plans for a 20 to 25k stadium in the Brampton/Mississauga area. They need to rival TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/canadian-league-update-oh-and-floro-talks-gold-cup-sort-of-r5340 update on the proposed league. Very disappointing seeing a large number of Canadians expecting to see this league fail right from the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Excited to hear more about this. Curious to find out about the cities that are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 How about we stay in one topic thread: http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/27060-montagliani%E2%80%99s-vision-a-canadian-division-1a-that-%E2%80%9Ccoexists%E2%80%9D-with-mls-nasl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.