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Canadian Division 1A - Why We Need It


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Duane Rollins (I think) on twitter stating that it looks like MLS will give each American team one-or-two trade-able 'Canadian-spots' that are separate from the international roster spots. In return, CSA may drop the '3 Canadian minimum' roster player rule on the Canadian clubs. All subject to the CBA bargaining.

 

Trade-able Canuck spots? Hmm. That adds value to it. I wasn't expecting that one. So 20 teams with 2 domestic Canadian spots is a grand total of 40 opportunities instead of 9. Shall we call this the "Larin Rule"? All 3 clubs are well over the 3 limit and with the advantages to homegrown players I don't see them having less than 6 on the roster.

 

If it is only 1 spot per team I'd still be happy but less so than if it is 2 per team. We make up 10% of the population and more than pull our weight in attendance so I think 2 spots out of the 22 is fair. Here's hoping they don't try to cheap out with 1 per team.

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Here is the link.

 

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/the-csa-mls-and-the-canada-question-r4977

 

Basically the proposal is to expand MLS rosters to 32 players with 2 domestic Canadian spots on each team.  In return the CSA drops the 3 Canadians rule for the Canadian MLS teams. 

 

Duane got the numbers wrong; but 20 teams x 2 Canadians = 40 guaranteed roster spots for Canadians.

 

It's not a bad compromise but it has to be collectively bargained for in the next CBA.

 

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Some things to consider;  Since each team would get the roster spots through allocation they would be disadvantaged to not fill them.  Also since they're tradable would they all get traded to the Canadian MLS teams or would they be centralized around the league?

 

If the 3 Canadian teams use the homegrown player rule to maximize allocation from their academies; they should still be able to keep 6 or so Canadians.  With each of the 17 US clubs having 2 spots each that's 34 spots in the US.  We could have 50+ Canadians in MLS if that gets implemented.

 

Is our player pool deep enough for that many MLS quality players?

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Some things to consider;  Since each team would get the roster spots through allocation they would be disadvantaged to not fill them.  Also since they're tradable would they all get traded to the Canadian MLS teams or would they be centralized around the league?

 

If the 3 Canadian teams use the homegrown player rule to maximize allocation from their academies; they should still be able to keep 6 or so Canadians.  With each of the 17 US clubs having 2 spots each that's 34 spots in the US.  We could have 50+ Canadians in MLS if that gets implemented.

 

Is our player pool deep enough for that many MLS quality players?

 

So we'd need a Canuck-Allocation spot for each Canadian player above the 2 each team gets? So Bernier & Nak for instance would use up 2 for Montreal and if they wanted to sign another they'd need another allocation spot? What about players like Johnson or Dero who already have US green cards and are counted as domestics? Lots to sort out yet but promising.

 

But homegrown would be as many as you can crank out. That really would emphasize developing rather than just hiring overseas Canadian players.

 

Our pool isn't deep enough yet but getting there quickly. 

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If Canadians are domestic on Cdn clubs, wouldn't giving them Cdn slots be redundant? So only the 17 US clubs should have Cdn slots.

 

This plan sounds pretty convoluted.

 

My guess is nothing changes. I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

Its too bad our own clubs don't stand up for our Country.

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This plan sounds pretty convoluted.

 

My guess is nothing changes. I would love to be proven wrong though.

 

Its too bad our own clubs don't stand up for our Country.

Canadian MLS teams have a vested interest, not because of patriotic reasons, but from business POV. As of right now, Canadian HG players are pretty much worthless to US MLS teams unless the kid has a green card. So, instead of being able to trade these kids to a US team, once a Canadian MLS team decides that a kid isn't good enough for the team, he is basically cut, and no returns gained. 

 

As well, MLS is working with one set of rules for Canadian teams and another set for US teams. It's not fair and equal competition, but then again, MLS isn't worried about fair competition.

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The Marquette Sports Law Journal actually states the complete opposite. 

 

MLS IS IN VIOLATION of the law BY ENACTING a foreign player quota. 

 

In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA). IRCA prohibits discrimination based on national origin or citi- zenship status in the hiring, recruiting, referral or discharge of individu- als.4

 

When an American sports league implements a foreign athlete quota rule it would appear that the Immigration Reform and Control Act is violated. For example, in either the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL), Central Indoor Soccer League (CISL), or Major League Soccer (MLS) there is a large number of foreign soccer players to choose from in the selection of team members. Some of these players may be better than their American counterparts even though the soccer skill level has been improved in the United States as evidenced by the American team performance during the 1994 World Cup. Thus, foreign athletes could demonstrate that their qualifications are greater than an American candidate by virtue of personal game statistics, honors and experience in leagues which have greater competition than either the NPSL, CISL or MLS. 

 

http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=sportslaw

written by Greenburg and Gray

Interesting. Almost 20 years since this paper has been written, and only challenge to MLS foreign player quota rule has been the green card thing. Nobody cares enough to challenge the foreign quota rule I suppose.

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The Marquette Sports Law Journal actually states the complete opposite. 

 

MLS IS IN VIOLATION of the law BY ENACTING a foreign player quota. 

 

In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA). IRCA prohibits discrimination based on national origin or citi- zenship status in the hiring, recruiting, referral or discharge of individu- als.4

 

When an American sports league implements a foreign athlete quota rule it would appear that the Immigration Reform and Control Act is violated. For example, in either the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL), Central Indoor Soccer League (CISL), or Major League Soccer (MLS) there is a large number of foreign soccer players to choose from in the selection of team members. Some of these players may be better than their American counterparts even though the soccer skill level has been improved in the United States as evidenced by the American team performance during the 1994 World Cup. Thus, foreign athletes could demonstrate that their qualifications are greater than an American candidate by virtue of personal game statistics, honors and experience in leagues which have greater competition than either the NPSL, CISL or MLS. 

 

http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1155&context=sportslaw

written by Greenburg and Gray

 

Reading this article, I found two interesting elements:

 

(1)  the part refered to in the quote makes it clear that the MLS could not favour Americans over Foreigners unless they were "equally qualified".  Obviously, you wouldn't need a to restrict foreigners if the MLS thought the players were equally qualified so its likely the MLS is already in violation.  MLS could however make the league completely American and exclude all Foreigners.  That would be ok.  Of course, I have no idea whether there has been any signficant amendments to this law or subsequent case law that has change or clarified IRCA further.

(2)  you cannot discriminate against someone based on their national origin pursuant to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  The case law here suggests that if you exclude one national in favour of another national, you would be in violation.  However, treating Canadians as Americans would not necessarily exclude any other Foreiger from employment as they can always play as an Internationals where there is a quota.  It would seem however to prefer Canadians over other Foreigners but however, adding 2 positions to the roster only for Canadians would seemingly do the same thing!  I guess the argument there is that no Foreigner would lose an opportunity as its an additional spot that onlys for Canadians.  I think that is fairly dubious. Moreover, this is an old law and the case law seemed fairly settled in the 1970s. The NASL operated with a North American quota for quite awhile just fine so you have to wonder if its that big of a deal (especially if MLS is already in violation of the immigration law under IRCA, and no one has challenged that).  One other thing, it is clear that Civil Rights Act of 1964 can be changed by treaty. I am not suggesting Canada and the US would ever enter into a treaty for MLS purposes but its possible in future labour arrangements between the nations (including through NAFTA) that Canadians could be treated as Americans for certain purposes and vice versa. 

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  • 1 month later...

So, say a NASL team starts in Hamilton tomorrow, which Canadians are in the starting line-up? Bryce Alderson? Emery Welshman and Stefan Vukovic up top? Sergio Camargo from NCAA to be the #10? The talent pool looks really thin now with the new USL teams taking almost all of the good young players.

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So, say a NASL team starts in Hamilton tomorrow, which Canadians are in the starting line-up? Bryce Alderson? Emery Welshman and Stefan Vukovic up top? Sergio Camargo from NCAA to be the #10? The talent pool looks really thin now with the new USL teams taking almost all of the good young players.

i don't think it would all happen in one fell swoop. To start there'd be a good number of internationals filling out the roster.

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I'm not sure if there's enough Canadian talent out there to fill the 2 existing NASL clubs, considering how many are with MLS/USL clubs. The talent level of NASL has been growing rapidly as well, and clubs are much more skilled than even in 2011. Alderson is probably NASL ready, but that's the only prospect that comes to mind. 

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If we do the whole Canadian NASL division route, I would just start with a high number of foreign roster spots....say 15. To start off with, the Canadian NASL clubs should load up the teams with South Americans....not guys from the states.

 

Harder to scout, sketchier agents, more expensive at every stage, more likely to leave and harder to integrate into a city like Edmonton or Ottawa. What a great idea. 

 

What NASL teams could/should do is take some of the foreign NCAA players that have first round draft ability but not quite enough to warrant a MLS team spending an international spot on them. Aaron Nielsen at rednationonline always has a good read on those types of guys.

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What NASL teams could/should do is take some of the foreign NCAA players that have first round draft ability but not quite enough to warrant a MLS team spending an international spot on them. Aaron Nielsen at rednationonline always has a good read on those types of guys.

 

Why would you do that? When you have 7 international spots, you want to use them on player who can help you right now, and I don't think that there are many NCAA players that have that ability and even if they had that said ability, they would be in MLS. I wouldn't spend an international spot on these players unless I know that I can finish last and keep my job.

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@Dub

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings in the Henry thread, but most of what you said with regards to South Americans isn't based on any facts or even significant empirical evidence.

Lol, you shouldn't take things so personally. I am an outspoken man on these forums.

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