Future of Mothers of Abroad Thread

[madmonte]

I don't know if it's appropriate to start a new thread for this, but since I have a poll to include, I thought I had to.  Jon (fussball_eh) is recruiting me to do the Canadians Abroad table on his Canucks Abroad website. 

 

Fact of the matter is, if I was to do this table on his website, I would be unable to edit both.  It would basically be a pain in the a$$ in terms of the time it takes...already doing major edits, as jpg could attest, can take upwards of 5-10 hours of work researching all the players on the list to determine if they are still at those locations, and then (at times rudely, but most people are pretty nice) getting corrected, which is always appreciated, as long as the content ends up being correct, and as current as possible.  Editing a whole second list and cross referencing would add hours of volunteer work which would then end up being frustrating and redundant.  

 

I've said many times I only took over this thread because noone else was doing it when jpg75 ran out of time for it.  

 

So yeah, I either do the thread here, or there.  But since I want to stay true to the Voyageurs, it begs the question...is it cool with you guys to do it as a table on his website instead, as I am unwilling to do both?  The benefits, of course, would be that in table format, I would be more able (and inclined) to add information like Date of Birth, and Player Position, and possibly their second nationality as well (particularly for players that have not committed to Canada)

 

That extra information would mean that I would need even more help from YOU guys to keep it current.  So the biggest difference in the thread would be that instead of a list, it would instead be completely deleted, and then include a link to Jon's website.  But all the updates you guys have for the list would still be posted to THIS board as well, as I need as much help as possible from you guys who have been around, and researching, far longer than I have.

 

Particularly, to the managers of the board, Jamie, etc...is that cool with you guys as well?  I haven't personally met you guys (or very many Toronto Vs), as I've only met some of the Prairie Vs and a bunch of the ESG guys at this years' season opener, but out of respect to this board I'm asking the question...in poll form, but if you want to add more info in reply please do so.

[ted]

I see no reason to move it.

 

I find the idea of the "Canucks Abroad" website to be insulting to the work you and others have done here and don't understand why it simply isn't incorporated into this site somehow.

[El Hombre]

So are the 9 people who want it kept here (so far) volunteering to maintain it?

[youllneverwalkalone]

I suspect the poll reflects the fact that this thread has had great historical significance for the Vs Board and has brought many people to the site over the years. I'm guessing it's the most well known thread and has some of the most traffic on the site. I maintained the list for a couple of years and I do realize it takes some work. Conceding this and the many other issues which make this statement somewhat ridiculous, I do believe the thread is the intellectual property of the Voyageurs and should remain here. I'm going to speak with Nolando about maintaining the list in a more traditional, less hands-on manner. I'm sure he or I would do it.

[jpg75]

I agree, this thread is property of the V's and should never be outsourced to a 3rd party.

It should be noted that the last canucks abroad site failed after a year and though i wish them luck, this new site has no guarantee of being successful. If it were to fail this list would become stranded unless we retrieved it before the domain was taken down or someone kept a shadow copy.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I've said it a million times before and it keeps falling on deaf ears. The list is much easier to maintain if the thread eliminated all bullshit comments and just kept to the actual player movements. Every post would mean an edit to the list, not some guys commentary about a player.

The list has also become fragmented by other threads ie the missing in action thread, and people starting a new thread on a player movement instead of posting in the MOACA.

[madmonte]

I suspect the poll reflects the fact that this thread has had great historical significance for the Vs Board and has brought many people to the site over the years. I'm guessing it's the most well known thread and has some of the most traffic on the site. I maintained the list for a couple of years and I do realize it takes some work. Conceding this and the many other issues which make this statement somewhat ridiculous, I do believe the thread is the intellectual property of the Voyageurs and should remain here. I'm going to speak with Nolando about maintaining the list in a more traditional, less hands-on manner. I'm sure he or I would do it.

 

Let me start out by clarifying that I am not trying to stop doing this thread.  (frankly, without your updates and hard work to keep me informed, this thread would be useless)

 

Yeah that's sort of why I was asking you guys about it first, to be honest, was to get this feedback.  I'm certainly not in the business of trying to insult anyone, or I simply would have just assumed it would be okay.  

 

That said, the work of the guys over at the Canucks Abroad site...they are great guys just being fans of Canadian soccer, trying to give us more places to find and enjoy the lists.  The reason I was asking about it, is that yes, it does give me more options to do things like player position on a possibly more easily editable table, as I alluded to originally.

 

As for Joe's points, yes it would be a LOT easier if people posted in this thread about player movement.  However, the occassional small derail doesn't really bother me, and nothing has actually chased me away from doing it here.  I have no problem doing it here, I was just presented the opportunity to do it elsewhere as well.

 

And yeah, I kind of get the proprietary thing you guys are talking about on the boards here, which again, is why I asked...whether it would be construed as a "bloody big deal", so to speak, if it was on a different site.  I wasn't asking the question of "hey, I need to stop doing this, so can you guys hop on here and do it again, because I'm going to quit doing it...".

 

Instead, I was asking the question of whether you thought it would be okay to have it maintained in a third party format.  So far the answer is a resounding no.  And I'll be speaking with fussball_eh about it (who is a great guy, who just loves soccer, guys, and, like many, is volunteering his time, effort, and money to bring resources so people can read more and more about their players and the game.  Just making that clear about Canucks Abroad...it's not "The Machine" vs "The Voyageurs" in a no holds barred match, Fussball's is a volunteer fan site lol)

[Blackdude]

Instead of saying that you want out of doing the MOACA if you're doing it for another website. Fine go do that. I would volunteer to do it. I didn't the last time because you volunteered and didn't mind about it. It's a big job. I get it, but to go from what we have had for a long time to pretty much a link on an external website is insulting to the V's. It's not about canucks abraod, it would be the same thing if it was on RNO, CSN or the11. 

[madmonte]

Instead of saying that you want out of doing the MOACA if you're doing it for another website. Fine go do that. I would volunteer to do it. I didn't the last time because you volunteered and didn't mind about it. It's a big job. I get it, but to go from what we have had for a long time to pretty much a link on an external website is insulting to the V's. It's not about canucks abraod, it would be the same thing if it was on RNO, CSN or the11. 

 

Again, I'm not trying to get out of doing it here.  I created this poll to find out if it was something people were cool with.  They aren't.  Life goes on, and since this vote has gone this way, I'll be maintaining this thread as normal, without any external third party links.  

 

Was just a suggestion.  I got my answer, I'm happy with it.  I may take the option of helping Jon maintain his list as well, but I won't let it interfere with this list...

 

Was simply trying to save myself a LOT of extra redundant work.  Frankly the passion you guys are expressing to keep it the same was a little surprising to me, wasn't sure it would matter THAT much.  But then again, if you read the original post, that's exactly why I asked the question, was to find out.

 

But I took over this thread to do it for you guys, for these boards, on a volunteer basis, and will continue to do so.  Business as normal.  

Case closed.

[Grizzly]

Providing other Canadian content on other websites = cool

Duplicating the content of our forum and recruiting our members to do the work = extremely uncool

[Joe MacCarthy]

As for Joe's points, yes it would be a LOT easier if people posted in this thread about player movement.  However, the occassional small derail doesn't really bother me, and nothing has actually chased me away from doing it here.  I have no problem doing it here, I was just presented the opportunity to do it elsewhere as well.

Well it bothers me, when I go to the MOACA I want to see Player A has moved to Place B, not a page full of bullshit conversational and "me too" posts after the original news. It just makes the news harder to spot.

Anyway just my opinion, I stopped looking at the list a while back, so I have no right to bitch.

[madmonte]

 

Providing other Canadian content on other websites = cool

Duplicating the content of our forum and recruiting our members to do the work = extremely uncool

 

I'm a pretty casual guy, so it's all cool I guarantee you fussball meant no offence in trying to get my help, I don't think he was ever trying to get me to stop doing this thread.  No need to turn it into a lynching.  He's a good guy.  Stay casual, people.  

 

Well it bothers me, when I go to the MOACA I want to see Player A has moved to Place B, not a page full of bullshit conversational and "me too" posts after the original news. It just makes the news harder to spot.

Anyway just my opinion, I stopped looking at the list a while back, so I have no right to bitch.

 

Yeah I can understand that.  I've probably been guilty of it on the page as well lol, so I apologize...

[jpg75]

You could do what i did and post the list from this thread on another website. I used to do both this thread and the one at BigSoccer, it doesn't have to be an either or proposition...

[Grizzly]

 

 

 

I'm a pretty casual guy, so it's all cool I guarantee you fussball meant no offence in trying to get my help, I don't think he was ever trying to get me to stop doing this thread.  No need to turn it into a lynching.  He's a good guy.  Stay casual, people.  

 

 

Yes he seems like a cool guy and maybe that was not his intent but it is certainly how it came across. And if he is going to recruit people on here for his website he needs to be very careful he is not hurting our website in the process. And as jpg says I have no problem having the same list posted on 2 websites but I am not ok with having to go to another website to read what should be the content on our website. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

Yeah I can understand that.  I've probably been guilty of it on the page as well lol, so I apologize...

Well, you're carrying the ball so you have the right to do as you see fit, again I have no right to complain.

[Joe MacCarthy]

You could do what i did and post the list from this thread on another website. I used to do both this thread and the one at BigSoccer, it doesn't have to be an either or proposition...

I used to post it everywhere but it used to really piss me off when other sites would steal it without giving credit (not me, where it originated).

[madmonte]

You could do what i did and post the list from this thread on another website. I used to do both this thread and the one at BigSoccer, it doesn't have to be an either or proposition...

 

Yeah, he wants it in table format, but honestly, with the information here, it really just becomes plug and play.  It probably wouldn't be too bad, an extra hour of copy/paste at most, which is probably what fussball was hoping I'd do anyway.  As I said, he never actually asked me to stop doing it here   As to what you say Joe, I'm sure Jon would be happy to give credit to the Voyageurs on his page for it, as you guys truly are a huge source of the info

[Fussball_eh]

I see no reason to move it.

 

I find the idea of the "Canucks Abroad" website to be insulting to the work you and others have done here and don't understand why it simply isn't incorporated into this site somehow.

 

Can you please elaborate on that? My motivation was simply to spread the word of soccer in Canada and make it more accessible to the wider public that doesn't have access to this forum. I am very interested in understanding why I am insulting the work of madmonte and others?

 

 

I agree, this thread is property of the V's and should never be outsourced to a 3rd party.

It should be noted that the last canucks abroad site failed after a year and though i wish them luck, this new site has no guarantee of being successful. If it were to fail this list would become stranded unless we retrieved it before the domain was taken down or someone kept a shadow copy.

 There is one crucial point madmonte has not listed yet. The Canucks Abroad list will be a google document, so more then one person can have access to it. The link to this forum will be directly to the google document, not the Canucks Abroad site.

 

 

Yes he seems like a cool guy and maybe that was not his intent but it is certainly how it came across. And if he is going to recruit people on here for his website he needs to be very careful he is not hurting our website in the process. And as jpg says I have no problem having the same list posted on 2 websites but I am not ok with having to go to another website to read what should be the content on our website. 

 

I am by no means trying to compete with the Voyageur's Forum. The more variety, frankly the better. Like madmonte, I am surprised however, about all the negative commentary towards my cause. I am in no way trying to hurt this website. I just thought having a google document that more then one person can edit and that has more information on the various players and on top of that access to it to the entire population, would be a positive development.

 

 

Yeah, he wants it in table format, but honestly, with the information here, it really just becomes plug and play.  It probably wouldn't be too bad, an extra hour of copy/paste at most, which is probably what fussball was hoping I'd do anyway.  As I said, he never actually asked me to stop doing it here   As to what you say Joe, I'm sure Jon would be happy to give credit to the Voyageurs on his page for it, as you guys truly are a huge source of the info

 

I was just going to suggest, linking to the original thread.

 

It's very interesting for me to see how closed minded this community is. Guys, we want soccer in Canada to grow and we want as many people a part of it as possible. Reading these comments, I feel like I am a part of some old boy's club that prevents progress at all costs. Don't worry, I am not stealing madmonte away and look we are consulting you for your opinions and if all of you are against this idea, no harm done.

 

Once again, the idea is to have a google document that madmonte will manage and link it back to this thread and my site (and possibly other sites that are interested).

 

With respect,

 

Jon

[Fussball_eh]

Here is an example of how I envisioned this to work:

 

Link to the Google Document: https://docs.google....X35YVZ5mZo/edit <-- madmonte and people of his choosing would have access to it to be able to edit it at anytime at any place.

This how it would look like on the Canucks Abroad Website: http://www.canucks-a....ca/testingdocs

 

Obviously, none of the formatting has been done yet and the info is also not up to date, etc...

 

Sorry about not communicating the idea properly in the first place.

[ted]

Thanks for the clarification Fussball_eh.  I am happy to see the  table/tracking/list maintained outside of the forum, I just don't want to see it on or accessed through another website. This is a Vees project and our responsibility so we should be the place people go to find information on Canadian players (aside from the CSA site).

 

Is there no way to incorprate it into the site? Why does it have to be hosted on Google?

[Fussball_eh]

Thanks for the clarification Fussball_eh.  I am happy to see the  table/tracking/list maintained outside of the forum, I just don't want to see it on or accessed through another website. This is a Vees project and our responsibility so we should be the place people go to find information on Canadian players (aside from the CSA site).

 

Is there no way to incorprate it into the site? Why does it have to be hosted on Google?

 

I am open to incorporating the Forum Article onto the website. The only reason I suggested the google document is because it allows us to put more information and make it look pretty. Also it would have been easier for multiple people to edit and a bunch of other advantages. What do you think?

 

I should clarify to all people resisting change of any kind: The process would stay exactly the same. Madmonte would continue editing and incorporating people's comments, just like he always has. Really for Voyageurs members nothing would change, except that they would have to click a google document to see the list, instead of scrolling to the first page of the article.

[xcalibre]

A list of players and their current clubs isn't "IP" and (while it's unlikely) if someone out there really wanted to be a dick, they could just copy and paste madmonte's list to an external site every time he changed it...

 

But anyways.  I could see the benefits of a google document, if only to allow a select few the chance to edit rather than leaving it all in the hands of one guy, as this thread has done over the years.  That would also leave it relatively independent of the canucks-abroad website, and ensure that it will last...  I think there are positives that some people are ignoring for the sake of 1 less click

[hamiltonfan]

Page 1 of the Canadian Abroad is a staple of this forum. Many folks refer to this, you'd be surprised the people i have come across that have mentioned. Lets keep a full list on page one. Power to the people if fussball (great work btw) wants to run a comprehensive site but it shouldnt take away from our boards.  no to google docs, no to links to other websites.

[madmonte]

Sorry about not communicating the idea properly in the first place.

 

I'll take the blame for that...it's a good idea, man...actually, been the "computer savvy" guy that I am, for all I know a google document IS a website.  I'm willing to do editing, and am capable, but to say I have a strong understanding of the terminology would be a poor assessment at best.  Therefore, in communicating the idea to others I was unable to do so, due to my lack of understanding on the matter, and was unable to communicate your idea the way it should have been communicated.  My apologies.  Let people vote yay or nay based on the true vision of what you wanted to accomplish, whether they like the idea or not, I could have communicated it better

[Dub Narcotic]

This site has been around for years and has a full organization ensuring its existence. Fussball_eh's site is likely to go the way of mlsdraft.net and other such failed endeavours. Nothing personal about Fussball, but it's not trivial to keep a site around for more than a couple of years especially when it's just the passion of one or two people keeping it going. I'm unclear why the list needs to be moved in any case, it seems like it's working fine here and we all appreciate the work that madmonte puts in.