madmonte Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 For a coach who is so concerned about defensive positioning, I can sure point to a lot of his favorite players like Straith being out of position far more than people would like to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) For me Bustos, like most of WCII, has a few tactical and positioning problems. He does his own thing mostly, which is very nice--for him. Even Blasco, his "partner", is more disciplined. I laughed when someone on the Whitecaps thread suggested he could replace Mauro Rosales next yes. Sure, Mauro perhaps does not give enough, but he is disciplined and can play for the team. Bustos, I don't think so. You can't play a kid for the luxury he brings you, not in MLS. In USL Pro of course you can, but that does not get him a spot on an MLS roster. You have to see what he does without the ball too. I am not saying Bustos does not work defensively, have not seen him enough to really evaluate, but WCII has little discipline, and something I don't like: when a team that loses, often badly, has all these flashy strikers and attacking mids making a name for themselves, you have to be suspicious. A second team like that, what is it meant to be: a place to prepare players for the rigours of MLS? Or a personal showcase? Why do they let those guys use the team to advance THEIR careers? Don't like it. I do realize I am possibly not being fair, but just to balance out the hype, which is not fair either. Edited September 13, 2015 by Unnamed Trialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 ^ Interesting point, Unnamed Trialist. I have heard before (I want to say it was DeVos) that a reason many young players find the transition from Academy/Reserve teams difficult is because in the reserves they are actually told to just worry about themselves and their game (because results don't matter - only their individual development does) . Then when they step into the first team they are getting ripped-on by teammates if they make a mistake because they might cost them a performance bonus, etc. as now results are everything and players' livelihoods are on the line. This transition apparently proves too big for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerlife Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Unnamed Trialist and Maccaliam, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Yeah but it's a tough balance. I think a lot of Canadian coaches, including some I've talked to, are starting to realize that stifling creativity at lower levels is one of the reasons we aren't creating Canadian players that CAN score. Only rewarding defensive/offensive positioning, and always yelling "PASS PASS PASS" can kill some players off in terms of offensive ability. So they are trying to start giving more free reign. I think USL is a little late of a level for that, obviously, but my point is, there is a balance when you are developing players. (side note: I even think Teibert is an example of a player at a high level who showed great flashes of offensive ability, especially in the passing side, and ended up getting it all stomped on. Has it made him a better player? Defensively, definitely, but he always had that engine. I think it's dangerous for canadian soccer to always be saying "we are going to stomp out your creative side in favor of defensively responsible players) Edited September 14, 2015 by madmonte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 For me Bustos, like most of WCII, has a few tactical and positioning problems. He does his own thing mostly, which is very nice--for him. Even Blasco, his "partner", is more disciplined. I laughed when someone on the Whitecaps thread suggested he could replace Mauro Rosales next yes. Sure, Mauro perhaps does not give enough, but he is disciplined and can play for the team. Bustos, I don't think so. You can't play a kid for the luxury he brings you, not in MLS. In USL Pro of course you can, but that does not get him a spot on an MLS roster. You have to see what he does without the ball too. I am not saying Bustos does not work defensively, have not seen him enough to really evaluate, but WCII has little discipline, and something I don't like: when a team that loses, often badly, has all these flashy strikers and attacking mids making a name for themselves, you have to be suspicious. A second team like that, what is it meant to be: a place to prepare players for the rigours of MLS? Or a personal showcase? Why do they let those guys use the team to advance THEIR careers? Don't like it. I do realize I am possibly not being fair, but just to balance out the hype, which is not fair either. He plays the same position as Pedro Morales. The man who gets paid $1,000,000 a year to walk back on defence and only worry about the occasional long pass, free kick and corner kick. If Morales was on VW2, would he not have the discipline to play for the Whitecaps? Your argument to me is cherry picking. Certain offensive players take risks to express themselves. Does Techera have the same responsibilities as Laba or Teibert? No. Does Carl Robinson have a different gameplan or expectations for his players than Alan Koch? I bet he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 In general, I haven't found that the USL teams are overly selfish. VWFC2 in particular has some very nice interplay between the front 4, especially when Schuler is playing. Being in a real league helps with that, as lack of effort and individual play results in your team getting stomped 6-0 with the first team coach watching and mentally writing your career off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Comparing Bustos to Morales, interesting. Doesn't help that Morales has been off-form since returning from his calf strain or whatever it was, but even then. I'd like to see Morales at top form for the next two months, but comparing with Bustos, well that is poetic license. As for WCII, if you are telling me that you think it is at all logical that a B team is not on the same page as the A team, that you think it is logical that Robinson has a different game plan than Koch, then something is seriously wrong. Or maybe what is wrong is that some fans actually think it is alright, amazing. Robinson and his whole staff go watch WCII, as you know, often on the touch line (NE corner). I doubt they are sitting there being impressed by the flashy kids. No serious club in the world has a direct pro feeder team NOT playing the same way as the first team, at least tactically. All questions of talent or very specific skills aside. They should even be signing to mirror positions to be subbed for. And then, when the player works on a team that is working, then anyone, even the ones who are not flashy, can be moved up. I don't think the Caps are quite there yet, they have not signed a WCII target man like Rivero, they are missing some wing speedsters. My personal opinion is that if WCII are playing crap then none of them should see the first team, with exceptions of course. Let results and not just play also be a part of what it means to get that first team opportunity. Then they'll realize that if they lose, all of them lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The WC2 play the same 4-5-1 countering style that the first team does. Clarke plays the same role as Rivero. We are missing true wing players like Manneh & Techera. WC2 have some fast players but it's taken Manneh 2 years to learn and take the wing role so we'll see next year who adapts. Blasco & Bustos seem to be the closest to seeing first team call ups. Marco's next goal is not to take Morales spot, it is to climb over Mezquida & Frose in the depth chart to be second choice at AM. Then see if he can take the starting position. Right now he is 4th. Morales for all the problems he's had is still one of the best at play making. 5 G / 4 A this year in 1387 minutes with 10 G / 12 A in 2554 last year show that. Bustos at 7 G / 2 A in 1360 minutes this year is similar but at a drastically lower level. There may be a tendency for young players to try and show off their individual skills, especially when the coach is watching, to get attention. As they learn more about the game they'll come to realize that the head coach doesn't need to see show off play and can tell a good player from average based on their effectiveness not flashiness at their position. Defensively we've given up similar number of chances as other teams but have been scored on a lot more of those chances. We've used 3 different keepers and all have had multiple goals allowed games so I don't think all the fault can be laid at their feet. We've score 37 on 327 attempts (11%) and allowed 50 on 379 (13%). Our shots vs SOG is 42.8% and allowed opponents 43% so not a lot of difference on either. I think it comes down to a lot of little things that the players need to iron out. We are allowing more quality chances or are taking more low percentage shots than other teams (or any mix thereof). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The WC2 play the same 4-5-1 countering style that the first team does. Clarke plays the same role as Rivero. We are missing true wing players like Manneh & Techera. WC2 have some fast players but it's taken Manneh 2 years to learn and take the wing role so we'll see next year who adapts. Blasco & Bustos seem to be the closest to seeing first team call ups. Marco's next goal is not to take Morales spot, it is to climb over Mezquida & Frose in the depth chart to be second choice at AM. Then see if he can take the starting position. Right now he is 4th. Morales for all the problems he's had is still one of the best at play making. 5 G / 4 A this year in 1387 minutes with 10 G / 12 A in 2554 last year show that. Bustos at 7 G / 2 A in 1360 minutes this year is similar but at a drastically lower level. There may be a tendency for young players to try and show off their individual skills, especially when the coach is watching, to get attention. As they learn more about the game they'll come to realize that the head coach doesn't need to see show off play and can tell a good player from average based on their effectiveness not flashiness at their position. Defensively we've given up similar number of chances as other teams but have been scored on a lot more of those chances. We've used 3 different keepers and all have had multiple goals allowed games so I don't think all the fault can be laid at their feet. We've score 37 on 327 attempts (11%) and allowed 50 on 379 (13%). Our shots vs SOG is 42.8% and allowed opponents 43% so not a lot of difference on either. I think it comes down to a lot of little things that the players need to iron out. We are allowing more quality chances or are taking more low percentage shots than other teams (or any mix thereof). Ok, good post, fair post. I agree where you put Bustos, he is not supposed to be Morales, but challenge Froese, or Mezquida, that sounds right. For me I agree, he is close but not there yet. Same with Blasco, who has the background-youth player with Barcelona and Mallorca--to step up, but still. There are others I like to like Levis, but they have similarities these guys, and the first team, right now, is not using those kinds of players much. As we stand right now, I am not sure a single regular with the WCII can fill a spot effectively on the first team, in a pinch. I am not even sure about the keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Made his MLS debut for Whitecaps tonite vs. Dallas day after earning his first cap for Canada. Quite the 24 hours for Bustos! Played about 20 minutes for Whitecaps at central mid and looked good offensively. Immediately created chances including a wonderful pass to Manneh. Unfortunately he is small and needs an immense amount of work defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 With the Whitecaps' injury situation he is in line for some more playing time against Houston and Olimpia and maybe in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Pretty much sums it up. We'll see how he develops from here. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Made his MLS debut for Whitecaps tonite vs. Dallas day after earning his first cap for Canada. Quite the 24 hours for Bustos! Played about 20 minutes for Whitecaps at central mid and looked good offensively. Immediately created chances including a wonderful pass to Manneh. Unfortunately he is small and needs an immense amount of work defensively. He looks like a player that is good on the ball for this level but as you said, needs to bulk up and he needs to get better defensively. I'd also add that he needs to work on his off the ball movement, maybe he just needs time to adjust but he wasn't actively looking for the ball as a 20 minute sub should, he seemed pretty passive until the ball came to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Given the Whitecaps injury problems, they'd be better off playing Bustos, Froese and Manneh behind Rivero and hoping for the best in the next game. There was no offensive development with the formation they started against Dallas last night. Even if they end up defending with only 6 men a lot of the time, the offensive counter balance might be enough if Laba and Koffie/Teibert can hold it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Saw his preformance last night. He is technically sound and depends on combination play to advance up the field or get into dangerous areas. This makes him different from Petrasso and Boakai, who mostly dribble to achieve this. He'd compliment those two players well. He also never looked hungry to win loose balls. Contrary to what others have said, I thibk he showed for the ball well, for the most part. It would be nice to see him hustle more. Overall though, promising preformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Saw his preformance last night. He is technically sound and depends on combination play to advance up the field or get into dangerous areas. This makes him different from Petrasso and Boakai, who mostly dribble to achieve this. He'd compliment those two players well. He also never looked hungry to win loose balls. Contrary to what others have said, I thibk he showed for the ball well, for the most part. It would be nice to see him hustle more. Overall though, promising preformance. he plays in an offensive fashion that none of our other players replicate. I think he is currently ready for MLS and has the highest ceiling of any Canadian right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 he plays in an offensive fashion that none of our other players replicate. I think he is currently ready for MLS and has the highest ceiling of any Canadian right now. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 he plays in an offensive fashion that none of our other players replicate. I think he is currently ready for MLS and has the highest ceiling of any Canadian right now. In their time playing at the MLS level attacking mid role Froese did better. It is a small sample size so far but Bustos will have to work his way up. I think he will and both he and Froese have a good future. PS I think Osorio is already better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) In their time playing at the MLS level attacking mid role Froese did better. It is a small sample size so far but Bustos will have to work his way up. I think he will and both he and Froese have a good future. PS I think Osorio is already better. Bustos has only played 30 MLS minutes, hard to make any comparisons. Osorio is several years older than Bustos, of course he's better right now. He's a good MLS player. that said, I think Bustos has better quickness, one v one skills and finishing skills. I base that off of watching Bustos for the last several years in USSDA, Canada youth teams and USL. By all accounts he is excellent during 1st team training too. Edited October 16, 2015 by Soccerpro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 And it doesn't hurt that he is from god's country...umm i mean manitoba. Right soccerpro?? WINK WINK!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 And it doesn't hurt that he is from god's country...umm i mean manitoba. Right soccerpro?? WINK WINK!! what does that have to do with anything? I've lived in 3 Canadian provinces. Are you just joking around? Are you are a fucking moron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 what does that have to do with anything? I've lived in 3 Canadian provinces. Are you just joking around? Are you are a fucking moron? I think it's fairly obvious that he is joking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 man, every thread I am checking this morning has got such a hard tone. I'm not ready for this. It's Friday people, lighten up :-) jpg75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 man, every thread I am checking this morning has got such a hard tone. I'm not ready for this. It's Friday people, lighten up :-) FUCK OFF, ALREADY! Cheeta, shermanator, youllneverwalkalone and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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