Marco Bustos

[Stoppage Time]

Does anybody have a thought as to whether, or not, Bustos could regularly make the 18 on a typical Whitecaps game day? For that matter, which Canadians/players in CPL presently have a serious chance of making a MLS roster and said team's game day 18 on a (semi) regular basis? Cheers!

[BearcatSA]

1 minute ago, Stoppage Time said:

Does anybody have a thought as to whether, or not, Bustos could regularly make the 18 on a typical Whitecaps game day? For that matter, which Canadians/players in CPL presently have a serious chance of making a MLS roster and said team's game day 18 on a (semi) regular basis? Cheers!

The big problem for the Caps and their academy "brand" is that it is not in their best interest to be a buying club from CPL.  They are strictly in the business of moving their academy grads in the other direction, hopefully with a carry on fee arrangement in return.  And they certainly won't be bringing back guys they had under their own umbrella.   

I am not up to speed on this but which CPL guys since Waterman have moved on to MLS?  I know former Halifax man and Caps pre-season trialist Sissoko went to Indy in USL but I am drawing blank on the MLS front.

[Stoppage Time]

In terms of player development, it would seem to me that players moving on both directions could be beneficial to both CDN MLS clubs and CPL clubs. We have seen several time that VWFC academy players, like Bustos for example, have not been successfully moved to the next level. If TCF, or Montreal Snowflake FC, or VWFC found a player in CPL worth the "risk", if you will, then why not move in that direction? Conversely, we all have clamoured to see Canadian prospects get loans to CPL clubs to aid in their development. Such could be a goal for both.

 

[BearcatSA]

6 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

In terms of player development, it would seem to me that players moving on both directions could be beneficial to both CDN MLS clubs and CPL clubs. We have seen several time that VWFC academy players, like Bustos for example, have not been successfully moved to the next level. If TCF, or Montreal Snowflake FC, or VWFC found a player in CPL worth the "risk", if you will, then why not move in that direction? Conversely, we all have clamoured to see Canadian prospects get loans to CPL clubs to aid in their development. Such could be a goal for both.

I just don't see the Caps bringing back their academy grads.  Bustos might have a better shot elsewhere in the league. Heck, the Caps might find somebody they really like but I think they would prefer that their supporting cast role players come from in house (or get relatively cheap but pro experienced Cancon from abroad, like Edgar, De Jong, Henry, Ricketts, and Cornelius).

[Stoppage Time]

53 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I just don't see the Caps bringing back their academy grads.  Bustos might have a better shot elsewhere in the league. Heck, the Caps might find somebody they really like but I think they would prefer that their supporting cast role players come from in house (or get relatively cheap but pro experienced Cancon from abroad, like Edgar, De Jong, Henry, Ricketts, and Cornelius).

Agreed. Some MLS Canadian club academy grads may have a better chance at another club. No question. All I am suggesting is that it would good practice for Canadian MLS clubs to be open to Canadian CPL players, and that Canadian MLS clubs be willing (as they have fairly regularly to date) to loan young Canadians to CPL clubs to develop them with playing time at a decent level. This should be better than having those players rot on the bench or, worse, train only.

[jonovision]

8 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

The big problem for the Caps and their academy "brand" is that it is not in their best interest to be a buying club from CPL.  They are strictly in the business of moving their academy grads in the other direction, hopefully with a carry on fee arrangement in return.  And they certainly won't be bringing back guys they had under their own umbrella.   

I am not up to speed on this but which CPL guys since Waterman have moved on to MLS?  I know former Halifax man and Caps pre-season trialist Sissoko went to Indy in USL but I am drawing blank on the MLS front.

Is there a single CPL player from years 1 and 2 that has moved up to any sort of decent level and remained there? Certainly none of the Canadian players.

For now we have to deal with the fact that the gap between CPL and MLS is enormous and only a massive standout has a chance of making that leap. For now a move to any league where the player can actually earn a decent living is probably the best we can expect (and celebrate, should it occur).

[Bison44]

9 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Is there a single CPL player from years 1 and 2 that has moved up to any sort of decent level and remained there? Certainly none of the Canadian players.

You havnt heard of Waterman??  He got 6 starts for the Impact last year and has 7 so far this year, in fact he started tonight.  

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

You havnt heard of Waterman??  He got 6 starts for the Impact last year and has 7 so far this year, in fact he started tonight.  

I thought the fact that I quoted and bolded his name in my reply made obvious that I was referring to anyone apart from Waterman.

[Bison44]

Ohhh, I didnt expand what you quoted.  My mistake...you are correct, but hopefully that changes soon.  

[jonovision]

Just now, Bison44 said:

Ohhh, I didnt expand what you quoted.  My mistake...you are correct, but hopefully that changes soon.  

I hope so too, but can you think of any Canadian in CPL that clearly belongs at a higher level? Non-Canadian?

[Aird25]

20 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I thought the fact that I quoted and bolded his name in my reply made obvious that I was referring to anyone apart from Waterman.

Pantemis is the only other one to get a look in MLS and he started again tonight. Neither of them clearly belonged at a higher level while in CPL

[Bison44]

I was surprised it was Waterman who got signed, I didnt think he was the best CB in the league, but what do I know eh?  Maybe AJB, kidding??  The kid from York (Wright?) looks pretty good and he is very young.  Farsi and Abzi look a step above the crowd wouldnt surprise me if they went somewhere (higher than CPL, lower than MLS).   

Seriously a start up league with low salaries, no track record and no academies are not going to atrack young talent away from MLS. You wouldnt expect too many 5 star recruits coming in and jumping a level right off the bat.  But, in year one they found 1 guy from nowhere who jumped, none in the f#cked up season last year, hopefully we get another one this year..(too early to say who, not too late for someone to bust out).  

[jonovision]

The fact that most CPL players earn such low salaries is why I'm surprised more haven't made much smaller jumps to unglamorous but more lucrative leagues. Smaller Asian leagues, perhaps, or 2nd division Scandinavia or some such.

[Bison44]

Maybe that does tell you something.  Maybe making the jump to some low level asian/scandanavian league doesnt pay as much as we think.  

[Cheeta]

I think its difficult when comparing wages from country to country making it into apples to apples.  Housing, transport and per diem details and sometimes the crazy variety in tax laws can be huge.  Am I remembering this correct?  Hutch on 500K Euros in Copenhaggen as a foreign national was tax exempt for 5 years?   When Jim Brennan came back to Canada after a career in England those pounds sterling he brought back with him became CAD and grew by 30% overnight.  (Off track but...can't remeber who it was but recall one of the UK based players basically doubling their money in a coulpe of years on the house they bought and then sold when they moved on.  Made as much money on the house as their contract!  Score.) 

Sorry for the interruption.  As you were. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

All true, but I think even a modest increase to the total comp would be a huge step in the right direction. $30-40k average is never going to attracted first division players. Nor will it retain them. $60-80k would put you on par with smaller first division clubs in Sweden/Norway, which would make a huge difference for recruitment, retention, and development. Move 1 or 2 players a year to a higher level a you can make that extra salary back. 

[The Real Marc]

But selling one or two players per team per year for meaningful money is a tough ask.

[Dominic94]

24 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

But selling one or two players per team per year for meaningful money is a tough ask.

The league has to get this part figured out.

[The Real Marc]

It’s not easy because the clubs and leagues that are the natural next step aren’t regular payers of substantial transfer fees.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by The Real Marc

[costarg]

23 hours ago, Bison44 said:

You havnt heard of Waterman??  He got 6 starts for the Impact last year and has 7 so far this year, in fact he started tonight.  

Indeed, however Waterman proved the gap between CPL and MLS is massive, and perhaps the reason no one else has signed another CPL CB since.  He hasn't exactly shown very well.  His first starts gave him a shot, but it became obvious he wasn't a starter, just a budget replacement.  The rest of the starts have been due to not having any other options due to injury, suspension or GC.  I really hoped he'd manage to take Struna's spot and ideally earn some CANMNT starts, but it isn't looking good.

[Cheeta]

5 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

It’s not easy because the clubs and leagues that are the natural next step aren’t regular payers of substantial transfer fees.

 

For sure.  Not that the transfers need to be huge to not be significant to a CPL club.  

League push towards youth is all about that "finder's fee".  Or the dream of finding that one.  Never going to get a million dollar payday for a late twenty something linking midfielder but you might for that 20 year old academy wash out who's refound his passion in mojo in the CPL.  

 

 

[Aird25]

11 hours ago, costarg said:

Indeed, however Waterman proved the gap between CPL and MLS is massive, and perhaps the reason no one else has signed another CPL CB since.  He hasn't exactly shown very well.  His first starts gave him a shot, but it became obvious he wasn't a starter, just a budget replacement.  The rest of the starts have been due to not having any other options due to injury, suspension or GC.  I really hoped he'd manage to take Struna's spot and ideally earn some CANMNT starts, but it isn't looking good.

That’s seems like a pretty high standard of success. He’s  started over half the games this season. I haven’t watched Montreal’s games but statistically he’s rated right there with Kamal Miller. He’s actually exceeding my expectations. I don’t think many would have predicted that he’d be the one CPL player to get a look in MLS. 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

That’s seems like a pretty high standard of success. He’s  started over half the games this season. I haven’t watched Montreal’s games but statistically he’s rated right there with Kamal Miller. He’s actually exceeding my expectations. I don’t think many would have predicted that he’d be the one CPL player to get a look in MLS. 

You can't use "he's started over half the games this season" to claim success.  You have to understand the reason why he got those starts.  Furthermore, you need to actually watch his performances before saying he's exceeded your expectactions.  Believe me, just watch a game where he starts, you'll change your tune.

[jonovision]

I've watched several of his games. He's not been great and has made his share of mistakes, but he looks better to me than a guy like Wandrille Lefevre, who was in and around MLS for half a decade.

Every MLS team needs players that aren't stars or even guys that will never make a start.

[BearcatSA]

14 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I've watched several of his games. He's not been great and has made his share of mistakes, but he looks better to me than a guy like Wandrille Lefevre, who was in and around MLS for half a decade.

Every MLS team needs players that aren't stars or even guys that will never make a start.

He could become a journeyman, like Edwards has become or Raposo will be.  Could forge a number of years in USL or lower level Europe, too.  

In a salary cap setting there is a need to balance cost vs return.  At the right price, you can be a contributor.