jpg75 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It wasn't that long ago that Stuttgart won the Bundesliga title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It wasn't that long ago that Stuttgart won the Bundesliga title. Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now. Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation) The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape) Before that: 12th Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012. You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Ive come looking for the canadian messi. Have i made it to the right place? See the "Lionel Bustos thread to accurately answer that. Surely the CSA are all over this given current call ups have revealed action ACTUALLY HAPPENING behind the scenes. He wants to play for Canada, has citizenship and lived here for a big chunk of his life. The sticking point as someone mentioned is the FIFA rule of being here 5 years after the age of 18. I hadn't heard that rule before being after the age of 18, in fact wasn't that part of the reason Hoilett couldn't represent England? I always thought it was the other way round maybe that is the F.A.'s rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now. Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation) The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape) Before that: 12th Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012. You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man! Obviously not this season, but the Bundesliga is that strong. One season you play for Championship, the next you battle against relegation. Stuttgart is no less than Dortmund or HSV (which have also fallen lately) or Hertha (which has even been relegated), Wolfsburg, Eintracht etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now. Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation) The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape) Before that: 12th Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012. You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man! Big clubs fall on hard times, doesn't mean they're not big clubs anymore. Gladbach yo-yo'd between B1 and B2 for a while and they're one of the 5 biggest clubs in Germany. Stuttgart have the infrastructure, money and fanbase to go back to qualifying for Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Big clubs fall on hard times, doesn't mean they're not big clubs anymore. Gladbach yo-yo'd between B1 and B2 for a while and they're one of the 5 biggest clubs in Germany. Stuttgart have the infrastructure, money and fanbase to go back to qualifying for Europe. Agreed, that's a different statement than saying they can win the Championsleague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Agreed, that's a different statement than saying they can win the Championsleague. Which i never said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles. To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a club's success over an extended period. In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of the Portugese league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when granted the opportunity. This difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine it with how many domestic titles they have won, it just pushes them into that next echelon. So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club. I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful within Germany, but only to a slight degree - what separates them for me is that they are more competative in European competition. (By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them). Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion. Edited October 26, 2015 by Obinna Fussball_eh and Shway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Which i never said. No, but read the thread. Shamrock said it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles. To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a clubs success over an extended period. In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of their league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when there. The difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine with how many domestic titles they have won, it clearly pushes them into that next echelon. So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club. I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful domestically, but only to a slight degree - what separates them is that they are more competative in European competition. (By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them). Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion. Couldn't have summed it up better myself. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanovski94 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles. To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a club's success over an extended period. In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of the Portugese league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when granted the opportunity. This difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine it with how many domestic titles they have won, it just pushes them into that next echelon. So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club. I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful within Germany, but only to a slight degree - what separates them for me is that they are more competative in European competition. (By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them). Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion. Dortmund has also been through the cycle. Before 2011 they werent very good. mid table not amounting to anything. VFB, HSV, S04, Bayer, Bremen, were all better for a good many years. In germany its Bayern vs the team in perfect harmony. Now its BVB before it was Bremen. Schalke and Bayer are very consistent but both dont have that identity to actually win anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Dortmund has also been through the cycle. Before 2011 they werent very good. mid table not amounting to anything. VFB, HSV, S04, Bayer, Bremen, were all better for a good many years. In germany its Bayern vs the team in perfect harmony. Now its BVB before it was Bremen. Schalke and Bayer are very consistent but both dont have that identity to actually win anything. Yes, Dortmund has also been through cycles, but overall they have been better in Europe over the last few decades. Of course, it's Bayern versus everyone else - Bayern are a mega club in the same category as Barcelona and Arsenal, two clubs that were interested in Elva. Benfica is considerably smaller, but Stuttgart is even smaller than that. Not by a whole lot mind you, but smaller nonetheless. Dortmund by the way has won the Champions League and has also reached the finals. When was the last time any of those other clubs has reached that level of success in Europe? That is over multiple cycles too, not just only this recent upswing - that is what I meant by more consistent. There are two other clubs that come close. The first is Leverkusen, who has also reached a CL final, but domestically their record is much poorer than Dortmund's (a few cups but never ever won the Bundesliga). The other is Schalke, who I gave an honorable mention to. They have the edge in German Cups, Dortmund hold the edge in Bundesliga championships, but Dortmund has done more in Europe during their upswings than Schalke, who's best showing was a semi final. Edited October 26, 2015 by Obinna Fussball_eh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Haha okay let's just agree Stuttgart are a "pretty big club" that on a particularly good year could win the league and qualify for the Champions league. In that sense they aren't unlike Arsenal They also play in a 60,000+ seat stadium... ANYWAY, Elva is very very promising. Players like Elva, Aleman, Bustos, Boakai, etc give me hope for Canada's ability to go forward in the future! All due respect to the Piette's of the world of course! Fussball_eh and jpg75 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Haha okay let's just agree Stuttgart are a "pretty big club" that on a particularly good year could win the league and qualify for the Champions league. In that sense they aren't unlike Arsenal They also play in a 60,000+ seat stadium... ANYWAY, Elva is very very promising. Players like Elva, Aleman, Bustos, Boakai, etc give me hope for Canada's ability to go forward in the future! All due respect to the Piette's of the world of course! I second this. Stuttgart is without a doubt a big club.. while Bayern and Dortmund are consistent big clubs in Germany, Stuttgart slides into the "second tier" of teams with Schalke, Hamburg, Leverkusen, Werder Bremen etc. there are many "big" clubs in Germany. The Bundesliga is so competitive that it would be foolish to look at year-to-year standings and say they aren't. The thing no one has mentioned here is that Stuttgart is renowned for their youth development. For this reason I think Elva made a smart choice by going to a club that is not only big in terms of support and 1st team players but more importantly at his age to a club that can develop him through minutes at a truly competitive level, and let's face it the 3rd Bundesliga isn't a bad level for him to start. By playing here he is immediately close to a MNT call up. With a St. Lucian/Canadian passport Arsenal and Barcelona were never really realistic options for him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 So, any update to how Elva is actually playing? Soccerpro, Shway and canucklefan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It's very important to go to a club where you actually have a chance to get first team minutes at some point. What's the point of being a part of a big club if guys don't get a shot in the show because the teams would rather just buy experience or players who are around the same age but have performed well with their respective big clubs because they had the chance to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 And of course the fact that Stuttgart has a second team playing at a high level (which Arsenal for instant don't). I think it was an excellent choice to go there. Even if he doesn't reach the first team, some other second division team would pick him up and he would still be (as it is right now) the Canadian player at the highest level in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 They have the capability of pulling a Dortmund at the very least and making a deep run if everything falls in place correctly for them. I think Mönchengladbach and Leverkusen have that potential this time around if either club manages to scrape through their group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 So, any update to how Elva is actually playing? I am not sure how he is playing, but that he is playing consistently is a really good sign! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 They have the capability of pulling a Dortmund at the very least and making a deep run if everything falls in place correctly for them. I think Mönchengladbach and Leverkusen have that potential this time around if either club manages to scrape through their group stages. Exactly. It would require at least 3 to 5 consecutive participations and a lot of luck. But I have to admit winning the CL is a long stretch. Fussball_eh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarnado1555362291 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) So, any update to how Elva is actually playing? The only decent video I could find was this highlight (0:20) in the only game he has started, the Stuttgart derby. He certainly has quickness as you see how he reacts to win the header in the area that leads to a goal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSXyQu7w9c Edited October 27, 2015 by tarnado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The only decent video I could find was this highlight (0:20) in the only game he has started, the Stuttgart derby. He certainly has quickness as you see how he reacts to win the header in the area that leads to a goal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSXyQu7w9c wow the Kickers are defending horribly there... Kinda glad Randy Edwini-Bonsu switched teams now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VfB Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 http://www.fupa.net/galerie/vfb-stuttgart-ii-fc-hansa-rostock-121874/foto34.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Seems like for all the talk about his talent, he can't find the back of the net. That's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Seems like for all the talk about his talent, he can't find the back of the net. That's not good. what's that based on? He hasn't played much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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