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Caniggia ‘Ginola’ Elva


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It wasn't that long ago that Stuttgart won the Bundesliga title.

Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now.

Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation)

The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape)

Before that: 12th

Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012.

You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man!

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Ive come looking for the canadian messi. Have i made it to the right place? 

See the "Lionel Bustos thread to accurately answer that.

Surely the CSA are all over this given current call ups have revealed action ACTUALLY HAPPENING behind the scenes. He wants to play for Canada, has citizenship and lived here for a big chunk of his life. The sticking point as someone mentioned is the FIFA rule of being here 5 years after the age of 18. I hadn't heard that rule before being after the age of 18, in fact wasn't that part of the reason Hoilett couldn't represent England? I always thought it was the other way round maybe that is the F.A.'s rule.

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Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now.

Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation)

The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape)

Before that: 12th

Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012.

You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man!

Obviously not this season, but the Bundesliga is that strong. One season you play for Championship, the next you battle against relegation. Stuttgart is no less than Dortmund or HSV (which have also fallen lately) or Hertha (which has even been relegated), Wolfsburg, Eintracht etc etc. 

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Yeah, but that is a totally different Stuttgart now.

Last season: 14th (just escaped relegation)

The season before that: 15th (even more narrow relegation escape)

Before that: 12th

Before that 6th (Last time they made Europa League in 2011/2012.

You are telling me they have a chance to win the CL? Come on man!

Big clubs fall on hard times, doesn't mean they're not big clubs anymore. Gladbach yo-yo'd between B1 and B2 for a while and they're one of the 5 biggest clubs in Germany. Stuttgart have the infrastructure, money and fanbase to go back to qualifying for Europe.

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Big clubs fall on hard times, doesn't mean they're not big clubs anymore. Gladbach yo-yo'd between B1 and B2 for a while and they're one of the 5 biggest clubs in Germany. Stuttgart have the infrastructure, money and fanbase to go back to qualifying for Europe.

Agreed, that's a different statement than saying they can win the Championsleague.

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Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles.

To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a club's success over an extended period.

In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of the Portugese league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when granted the opportunity. This difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine it with how many domestic titles they have won, it just pushes them into that next echelon.

So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club.

I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful within Germany, but only to a slight degree - what separates them for me is that they are more competative in European competition.

(By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them).

Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion.

Edited by Obinna
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Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles. To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a clubs success over an extended period.

In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of their league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when there. The difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine with how many domestic titles they have won, it clearly pushes them into that next echelon.

So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club.

I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful domestically, but only to a slight degree - what separates them is that they are more competative in European competition.

(By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them).

Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself.

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Stuttgart, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Wolfsburg, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Brussia Monchengladbach are all clubs that enjoy success in cycles.

To me, being a big club means you're consistently challenging for and winning things. I look at a club's success over an extended period.

In that context, clubs like Benfica and Porto are bigger than those, I'll call them, mid-level Bundesliga clubs. The relative weakness of the Portugese league has given them more access to European competition, but they have done a little more than their German counterparts when granted the opportunity. This difference in European competativeness is slight, but when you combine it with how many domestic titles they have won, it just pushes them into that next echelon.

So, while they might have a similar budget, a club like Benfica has more, recognition, prestige and importance in the European football landscape - making them a bigger club.

I am no expert in German football, but since I have been watching and following, I would say the most successful club outside of Bayern Munich is Brussia Dortmund. After that, maybe you can put Schalke 04 up there, but that's as far as I would go. Both are more successful within Germany, but only to a slight degree - what separates them for me is that they are more competative in European competition.

(By the way, yes I am aware that Monchengladbach were a juggernaut in the 70's, but that is negated by the time they've spent in the 2. Bundesliga, at least in terms of how I rank them).

Anyhow, I personally group Brussia Dortmund in with Benfica, Porto and the like - that next level below the mega clubs like Barcelona or Arsenal. The other German clubs mentioned, while quite important, are not held in the same regard, in my humble opinion.

Dortmund has also been through the cycle. Before 2011 they werent very good. mid table not amounting to anything. VFB, HSV, S04, Bayer, Bremen, were all better for a good many years. In germany its Bayern vs the team in perfect harmony. Now its BVB before it was Bremen. Schalke and Bayer are very consistent but both dont have that identity to actually win anything.

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Dortmund has also been through the cycle. Before 2011 they werent very good. mid table not amounting to anything. VFB, HSV, S04, Bayer, Bremen, were all better for a good many years. In germany its Bayern vs the team in perfect harmony. Now its BVB before it was Bremen. Schalke and Bayer are very consistent but both dont have that identity to actually win anything.

Yes, Dortmund has also been through cycles, but overall they have been better in Europe over the last few decades.

Of course, it's Bayern versus everyone else - Bayern are a mega club in the same category as Barcelona and Arsenal, two clubs that were interested in Elva.

Benfica is considerably smaller, but Stuttgart is even smaller than that. Not by a whole lot mind you, but smaller nonetheless.

Dortmund by the way has won the Champions League and has also reached the finals. When was the last time any of those other clubs has reached that level of success in Europe? That is over multiple cycles too, not just only this recent upswing - that is what I meant by more consistent.

There are two other clubs that come close. The first is Leverkusen, who has also reached a CL final, but domestically their record is much poorer than Dortmund's (a few cups but never ever won the Bundesliga). The other is Schalke, who I gave an honorable mention to. They have the edge in German Cups, Dortmund hold the edge in Bundesliga championships, but Dortmund has done more in Europe during their upswings than Schalke, who's best showing was a semi final.

Edited by Obinna
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Haha okay let's just agree Stuttgart are a "pretty big club" that on a particularly good year could win the league and qualify for the Champions league. In that sense they aren't unlike Arsenal ;) 

They also play in a 60,000+ seat stadium...

 

ANYWAY, Elva is very very promising. Players like Elva, Aleman, Bustos, Boakai, etc give me hope for Canada's ability to go forward in the future! All due respect to the Piette's of the world of course!

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Haha okay let's just agree Stuttgart are a "pretty big club" that on a particularly good year could win the league and qualify for the Champions league. In that sense they aren't unlike Arsenal ;) 

They also play in a 60,000+ seat stadium...

 

ANYWAY, Elva is very very promising. Players like Elva, Aleman, Bustos, Boakai, etc give me hope for Canada's ability to go forward in the future! All due respect to the Piette's of the world of course!

I second this.  Stuttgart is without a doubt a big club.. while Bayern and Dortmund are consistent big clubs in Germany, Stuttgart slides into the "second tier" of teams with Schalke, Hamburg, Leverkusen, Werder Bremen etc. there are many "big" clubs in Germany.  The Bundesliga is so competitive that it would be foolish to look at year-to-year standings and say they aren't.  

The thing no one has mentioned here is that Stuttgart is renowned for their youth development.  For this reason I think Elva made a smart choice by going to a club that is not only big in terms of support and 1st team players but more importantly at his age to a club that can develop him through minutes at a truly competitive level, and let's face it the 3rd Bundesliga isn't a bad level for him to start.  By playing here he is immediately close to a MNT call up.

With a St. Lucian/Canadian passport Arsenal and Barcelona were never really realistic options for him anyway.

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It's very important to go to a club where you actually have a chance to get first team minutes at some point. What's the point of being a part of a big club if guys don't get a shot in the show because the teams would rather just buy experience or players who are around the same age but have performed well with their respective big clubs because they had the chance to do so

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And of course the fact that Stuttgart has a second team playing at a high level (which Arsenal for instant don't). I think it was an excellent choice to go there. Even if he doesn't reach the first team, some other second division team would pick him up and he would still be (as it is right now) the Canadian player at the highest level in Germany. 

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They have the capability of pulling a Dortmund at the very least and making a deep run if everything falls in place correctly for them. I think Mönchengladbach and Leverkusen have that potential this time around if either club manages to scrape through their group stages.  

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They have the capability of pulling a Dortmund at the very least and making a deep run if everything falls in place correctly for them. I think Mönchengladbach and Leverkusen have that potential this time around if either club manages to scrape through their group stages.  

Exactly. It would require at least 3 to 5 consecutive participations and a lot of luck. But I have to admit winning the CL is a long stretch. 

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So, any update to how Elva is actually playing?

The only decent video I could find was this highlight (0:20) in the only game he has started, the Stuttgart derby. He certainly has quickness as you see how he reacts to win the header in the area that leads to a goal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSXyQu7w9c

 

Edited by tarnado
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The only decent video I could find was this highlight (0:20) in the only game he has started, the Stuttgart derby. He certainly has quickness as you see how he reacts to win the header in the area that leads to a goal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASSXyQu7w9c

 

wow the Kickers are defending horribly there... Kinda glad Randy Edwini-Bonsu switched teams now :D

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  • jordan changed the title to Caniggia ‘Ginola’ Elva

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