xcalibre Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Oh but if Larin had just finished his chance we'd be in the GC quarters, our U23 team wouldn't have embarassed themselves, and our women's side would have got into the 3rd place game in the WWC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 where's the delete button - redundant post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I seem to recall Forrest was saying something along the lines of "for all those who were clamoring for an experienced foreign coach, with this bunch, and the amount of time the coach gets with them, what's the point?". It sounded like a pretty brutal (but accurate) analysis of our talent pool but maybe I misheard it. You heard it right. To me more than brutal is a statement of somebody totally out to lunch who knows little about coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 You heard it right. To me more than brutal is a statement of somebody totally out to lunch who knows little about coaching. Did you see this? https://twitter.com/alexfan590/status/623308310406520832 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Is Ricky certain that Gomes isn't pronounced Gomez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Based on how slow Aleman was when I've never heard anyone talk about speed issues, maybe it was a leg injury, sounds reasonable to me. He was also moving a bit strangely so I could easily see that being the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Did you see this? https://twitter.com/alexfan590/status/623308310406520832 What bothers me about that is simply you have to coach playing out from the back, you need time to get it right (and the chance to screw up, meaning friendlies), and if you do it really well the rival team will learn how to defend it. Watching my kid playing u-16 in Spain in a middle level, about 2 of 16 teams in a league will try it, usually because they are bigger more ambitious clubs, 3rd of 4th tier pro clubs. And you see them totally screw up, especially at the start of the year, less towards the end. They get burned doing it, but keep insisting, and eventually get it. Can take a good 5 preseason matches and another 6-8 league games. And then, when they all know how to move, all of the team from the forward back to the keeper, it works and they do it rather impressively, unless a team really set out to pressure up high and force them long. And then by a certain level they do it all the time because it is a club philosophy. We do not have the time to teach it properly with a short camp and a few friendlies, especially since few of these kids do it where they play regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think the kids should be doing that regularly at the earlier age levels though, which is why I'm tending to let the Floro's off the hook for recent results. The mistakes visible last night just seem fundamental...poor control, passing the ball to a guy in a white shirt, not providing outlets etc....Peru's pressing was OK but not enough to excuse those errors IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 They look the most comfortable when passing it back to the keeper. So, it tells me they do this quite regularly for some time. And it cuts across teams from junior to senior and from men to women. It has happened pre Floro but maybe less evident since we played the long ball style of the gk just booting upfield to no one. Under Herdman, it has been reduced but when the game isn't going well, the women also fall back to passing it to the keeper. It sorta like a security blanket for Canadian players. Though, in yesterday's match, they went overboard. I was going to keep track of how many times Farmer was passing it back to the keeper but lost count around 7. I also can't recall seeing a player pass it back to the keeper when he is at the halfway line while everyone else is near the box coming off a corner kick. It would have a been ideal time for Black to kick it back into the mixer as the Americans would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Off the ball movement is key, and also confidence. A central mid has the ball at around 30 yard mark. First, there has to be a main option, usually a defensive mid or a creative mid open. Even if he is not entirely, he has to know he can receive and turn, or receive and touch it off to another mid. Meaning not just the guy receiving but his first and second options have to be ready even before the ball gets to the first guy receiving. Every time a player further up the field settles and can turn to face forward the sequence begins again. Only if there is no option up the middle , then you move across or towards a back near the sideline. They are covered, you can go back to the keeper to start again, if you think the opposing team won't press so high and you can really start again. Over and over again the sequence has to be repeated, with every player but esp the A and B options always moving in anticipation of the pass forward to them. If there is no option, none at all, then you go long. Better a back going long at yard 30 in any case, it makes no sense to return to a keeper to go long when the back can do the same thing 15-20 m further up the pitch. You only go back to a keeper if you think you can start the possession from the back successfully again. Or if you want to stretch the defense having seen they will pressure the keeper, creating more spaces in the middle. Or if you have no faith in your strikers up high to bring down a ball successfully and the possession option is in fact your only philosophy and long ball is anathema. The latter case being extremely rare and mostly the extreme version of a possession-confident tiki-taka side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 ^ Great post. We really need to get better at turning on the ball, or more confident because there were many instances when instead of trying to turn players facing their own goal just play it to a player facing upfield behind them (in some cases the keeper). We seem to have this idea that possession is so important that every player plays the safest ball possible until one player is so cut down on space that he boots it upfield or turns it over. We were actually pretty successful when we tried to make things happen despite the lack of finish, these guys played some pretty killer balls at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerlife Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't think so. It may explain part of it, but i think that is the mentality for a lot of these players all the time. They are told to keep possession, pass back rather than loose the ball. This starts fairly young. The "new" way to play. Don't loose the ball. I guess the mids need to get into space more in order to go forward instead of always going back or long balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 ^ Great post. We really need to get better at turning on the ball, or more confident because there were many instances when instead of trying to turn players facing their own goal just play it to a player facing upfield behind them (in some cases the keeper). We seem to have this idea that possession is so important that every player plays the safest ball possible until one player is so cut down on space that he boots it upfield or turns it over. We were actually pretty successful when we tried to make things happen despite the lack of finish, these guys played some pretty killer balls at times. One aspect that's missing with our players (which I try and implement in my own game), is the ability to elude pressure by dribbling the ball into space. You don't need to be a great dribbler, you just need composure. Keegan is right in pointing this sequence out: safe pass, safe pass, safe pass, preassure, long ball. This long ball results from someone loosing their nerve. Pushing into space with the ball is particularly useful for centre backs and (especially) full backs. Next time we play at any level, watch how many times our fullbacks collect a pass from the centreback and immediately look to play it long down the line as they're being closed down. Then, watch our opponents in the same situation - you'll see the fullback avoid that pressure by cutting inside and carrying the ball into space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 One aspect that's missing with our players (which I try and implement in my own game), is the ability to elude pressure by dribbling the ball into space. You don't need to be a great dribbler, you just need composure. Keegan is right in pointing this sequence out: safe pass, safe pass, safe pass, preassure, long ball. This long ball results from someone loosing their nerve. Pushing into space with the ball is particularly useful for centre backs and (especially) full backs. Next time we play at any level, watch how many times our fullbacks collect a pass from the centreback and immediately look to play it long down the line as they're being closed down. Then, watch our opponents in the same situation - you'll see the fullback avoid that pressure by cutting inside and carrying the ball into space. I agree with this. When you watch a top level game, the full back often cuts inside on the dribble with his very first touch in order to elude pressure. You don't see that from our guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick10 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Missed the game, but not surprised with the result. In defense of our players, every team that we faced had a ton more experience playing at a high level. Peru and Panama both have players in their squad that have 100+ appearances for their club sides while our players are halfway into their first season in USL. We're just way behind with player development. Just to point out peru's line up against canada did not include any of their best players on this squad ( guarderas , sandoval and cedron were all in the bench for a big part of the game) who are the only ones with experience in the peruvian first division. The only players that are starters in the peruvian league for their teams are sandoval and cedron Furthermore peruvian coach had to made 3 different lists of players for this tournament as the first 2 lists got rejected as peruvian clubs did not want to release their players for this tournament and fifa did not required them to do it . Even on his third list the pierre larrauri ( who was supposed to be the best player on the squad) had to pulled out as his club still did not wanted him to go . Out of the list players like benavente ( real madrid) , tapia ( tweente), yordi reyna ( austria) who met the age criteria were not included and at the end the coach decided not to take any player over 22 years of age as this was an agreement between conmebol teams. Point being is peru sent a very poor team to this tournament. What I saw yesterday on the canadian side was very poor. I had high hopes for aparicio as I been following the toronto fc academy and I thought he would do well in this game. However he was outclassed by the peruvians in the middle. Canada can not keep playing this nonsense passing back the ball and trying long balls with zero results ( 1 goal in 3 games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northvansteve Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Just to point out peru's line up against canada did not include any of their best players on this squad ( guarderas , sandoval and cedron were all in the bench for a big part of the game) who are the only ones with experience in the peruvian first division. The only players that are starters in the peruvian league for their teams are sandoval and cedron Well you could say the same for Canada's lineup: we were missing Petrasso, Froese, Adekugbe, Bustos, Larin, Piette, Gasparotto, Carreiro, Hamilton, Chapman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well you could say the same for Canada's lineup: we were missing Petrasso, Froese, Adekugbe, Bustos, Larin, Piette, Gasparotto, Carreiro, Hamilton, Chapman. Canada was missing players, I think what rick was trying to say that thr Peru "B or B+" team defeated a Canadian squad without imagination. A couple of those Peruvian players played in European Champions League teams, or at least qualified for tr Champins League. Same can't be saif about any Canadian player. Peru had a terrible tournament TBH. The coach was worse than Floro as in he doesn't have much coaching experience coaching national teams and failed miserably. Peru were expected to make the semi's at least, but Panama threw a wrench in their plans. Panama to me is a coming powerhouse in CONCACAF. They're investing in youth teams and slowly paying off. The same can't said of Canadian with Floro at thr helm and CSA leading the reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Way too many turnovers. Way too many. I can't remember a game where we turned it over that much. The Peru plan was simple. Pressure up the field and go for the interceptions. They won so many 1v1's tonight I was exhausted watching. Pretty much my take, except that the "pressure" up field was more like a three man forward presence, not rushing in but challenging the back line to play it through them. And inevitabley, we couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The Peru match unfortunately left some lingering doubts for me about these players and Canadian soccer in general, I thought we played reasonably well in the loss to Brazil and the exciting goaless draw with Panama! The Peru match is the one that will be on the the minds of most of us and we were nothing short of terrible for many of the reasons previously discussed in detail! When the team was already eliminated before kick off our hopes were that Floro may open things up and an exciting attacking spectacle may be witnessed by us at THF, not so much! Overall that was one of the most disappointing displays from a Canadian team and what made it worse was it was on home soil with an enthusiastic crowd just waiting to cheer for goals and good plays! Perhaps the result from the previous game just took the wind out of their sails but it is hard to explain all of the errant passes and other mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Ya the pro cdn crowd at thf was very very frustrated with the negativr back passes, lack of offensive play and turnovers. Too bad because it was an enthusiastic crowd of 15,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick10 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Canada was missing players, I think what rick was trying to say that thr Peru "B or B+" team defeated a Canadian squad without imagination. A couple of those Peruvian players played in European Champions League teams, or at least qualified for tr Champins League. Same can't be saif about any Canadian player. Peru had a terrible tournament TBH. The coach was worse than Floro as in he doesn't have much coaching experience coaching national teams and failed miserably. Peru were expected to make the semi's at least, but Panama threw a wrench in their plans. Panama to me is a coming powerhouse in CONCACAF. They're investing in youth teams and slowly paying off. The same can't said of Canadian with Floro at thr helm and CSA leading the reforms. Im not sure about Panama. I was there on their first game against Peru and the peruvians dominated the whole first half , it could ve easily been 2-0 or 3-0 in favour of peru. Then they get a controversial penalty on a counter attack in the last minute to win a game , just when peru was attacking . Against brazil also they were getting destroyed 3-0 and then brazil took the foot of the gas pedal , made some changes and panama came back , even then brazil missed an open net in the last minute that should ve been a goal Im going to save my final judgement against panama until the playoffs. I think peru and brazil did not take their game against panama as serious as they shoulve ve, they probably thought it was going to be a walk in the park I think Brazil and Peru played canada harder than they played panama. The brazilians had to win the opener and make an statement and Peru had to make sure they did not finish last as they are still getting heat from the press for losing against panama. I thought panama's defense was weak , they had some decent players that are pretty fast on the right and left wings which makes them dangerous on the counter attacks, but aside from that I was not really impress by them. Overall I thought Canada had a stronger defense and midfield , however canadian attack is almost non existent as always which makes it easier for teams to control the game as they do not have to worry about counter attacks. Lets see how panama does against Mexico in a playoff match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Im not sure about Panama. I was there on their first game against Peru and the peruvians dominated the whole first half , it could ve easily been 2-0 or 3-0 in favour of peru. Then they get a controversial penalty on a counter attack in the last minute to win a game , just when peru was attacking . Against brazil also they were getting destroyed 3-0 and then brazil took the foot of the gas pedal , made some changes and panama came back , even then brazil missed an open net in the last minute that should ve been a goal Im going to save my final judgement against panama until the playoffs. I think peru and brazil did not take their game against panama as serious as they shoulve ve, they probably thought it was going to be a walk in the park I think Brazil and Peru played canada harder than they played panama. The brazilians had to win the opener and make an statement and Peru had to make sure they did not finish last as they are still getting heat from the press for losing against panama. I thought panama's defense was weak , they had some decent players that are pretty fast on the right and left wings which makes them dangerous on the counter attacks, but aside from that I was not really impress by them. Overall I thought Canada had a stronger defense and midfield , however canadian attack is almost non existent as always which makes it easier for teams to control the game as they do not have to worry about counter attacks. Lets see how panama does against Mexico in a playoff match That's a new level of excuse or overrating of our players: The rival played harder against us than against the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic78 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 For real, what the fuck is wrong with our players and their inability to put the ball in the back of the net? It's embarrassing. This is applicable to what just happened in the women's game vs. Colombia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOGAKANATA Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 For real, what the fuck is wrong with our players and their inability to put the ball in the back of the net? It's embarrassing. This is applicable to what just happened in the women's game vs. Colombia. This. Both programs all level. Very low on confidence and imagination. We have no offense because we dont want to offend the world......Just defend and peace keep. Though the womens program plays with more professionalism, and real intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 We're scared to take defenders on in a one-on-one. Its pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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