nolando Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I want MLS to do it. If you need to pay him, fine. But have him sit out a year. +1 Otherwise this could be Mattocks or Manneh of whomever the next big star is in about a year's time. It's only a mockery of the system if you let the mockers win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I want MLS to do it. If you need to pay him, fine. But have him sit out a year. Makes no sense, labour vengeance is foolish as it hurts the team. First, if you are talking about a disciplinary measure it has to correspond to existing practice, and possibly even MLS standards, and be just. If it not you risk exposing the team to being sued for on the job mobbing. You would have to let him train, you cannot refuse him the right to fulfill his job description, and that creates a negative vibe in each and every training session. And more so if Caps can't score a few games straight and Camilo is training well and scoring. Why set yourself up for that for a whole season just for revenge against a player? All clubs in the world have discontent players, often have cases where an unhappy player does not show up for practice, comes back late from holidays, exagerrates injuries to stay off the pitch. The best thing to do always, apart from a fine or some standard disciplinary measure, is to agree to break the contract, or wait for the next transfer period, and get him off the team, take transfer money or the salary, and turn the page. Whitecaps will have to do that if they win this current legal battle. The whole team has to be focussed on a season without Camilo and finding his 15+ goals elsewhere. And forget the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ok. How about the league loaning him to the Pittsburgh Riverhounds to train? I think the team is only hurt if QFC make a bigger offer than $1m. And, then, we have to assume that the owners will use the excess amount to pay a DP salary. Otherwise, the team should be neutral. Unless we're talking about the clubs perception in future transfers, etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ok. How about the league loaning him to the Pittsburgh Riverhounds to train? Why would Camillo accept to go to USL Pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Why would Camillo accept to go to USL Pro? Because it's all about the benjamins to Camilo. He could care less about Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Because it's all about the benjamins to Camilo. He could care less about Vancouver. Players have to agree to loan moves. Vancouver would probably be within their rights to keep him in Vancouver and not play him and have him train with the reserve team but I don't think there is much more they could do as far as punishment. As satisfying as punishing him might be it is not really in Vancouver's best interests to do so in a manner like this. And the same fans who might be happy seeing him punished like this would be bitching when the Caps suck because they were unable to replace his goals because they decided to punish Camilo instead of getting compensation for him. A mutual parting of ways beneficial to both sides is usually the best course of action. And we should not forget that as much as as what Camilo did was wrong and unethical in all liklihood the Caps bear some responsibility as well. In most of the football world if you have a breakout season and have one year left on your contract your team will renegotiate the contract and try to re-sign you for a longer term. Queretaro is not a team Camilo like dreamed to play for and probably didn't offer a ridiculous salary for him either so if he signed with them it probably means he was not expecting the Caps to be fair with him. Yes he may be a greedy, manipulative, self-centred, dishonest character but that is describing a very high percentage of football players. It is part of the Caps management's job to deal with players like that and keep them happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Googled him just after I posted the above and it appears that this is what the Caps have decided to do. Camilo will apparently stay with Queretaro and the Caps will receive a 7 figure transfer fee. http://www.eightysixforever.com/2014/1/13/5303830/has-the-camilo-situation-been-fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munseahawk Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 **** that Camilo ****! The Rob Friend RUMMORS are back! http://www.dieblaue24.com/2014/01/10/rob-friend-wechsel-vancouver-whitecaps/ According to the ESPN link that was posted earlier, Friend has signed with the Galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Players have to agree to loan moves. Vancouver would probably be within their rights to keep him in Vancouver and not play him and have him train with the reserve team but I don't think there is much more they could do as far as punishment. As satisfying as punishing him might be it is not really in Vancouver's best interests to do so in a manner like this. And the same fans who might be happy seeing him punished like this would be bitching when the Caps suck because they were unable to replace his goals because they decided to punish Camilo instead of getting compensation for him. A mutual parting of ways beneficial to both sides is usually the best course of action. And we should not forget that as much as as what Camilo did was wrong and unethical in all liklihood the Caps bear some responsibility as well. In most of the football world if you have a breakout season and have one year left on your contract your team will renegotiate the contract and try to re-sign you for a longer term. Queretaro is not a team Camilo like dreamed to play for and probably didn't offer a ridiculous salary for him either so if he signed with them it probably means he was not expecting the Caps to be fair with him. Yes he may be a greedy, manipulative, self-centred, dishonest character but that is describing a very high percentage of football players. It is part of the Caps management's job to deal with players like that and keep them happy. Ok. When Jeff and Grizz agree I suppose I need to respect that. Hopefully the fee will be enough for maximum allocation and enough to pay some DP wages. I heard the Caps asked for $3.5m (which does seem high given his contract). $1.75 might do what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm surprised Queretaro, who expected Camilo for a free transfer, didn't completely shy away from the agreement. The fact that they, now, are willing to pay a transfer agreement strikes me as sort of fishy, as though they knew all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm surprised Queretaro, who expected Camilo for a free transfer, didn't completely shy away from the agreement. The fact that they, now, are willing to pay a transfer agreement strikes me as sort of fishy, as though they knew all along. You can try to steal something to see if you can get away with it but when the cops show up and say pay or we will arrest you it is usually wise to pay up. Queretaro did enough that was against various statutes within the football world that they could have faced some major sanctions if they did not settle this. Camilo forced the Caps hand but hopefully they at least had enough leverage to get more for him than they otherwise would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Googled him just after I posted the above and it appears that this is what the Caps have decided to do. Camilo will apparently stay with Queretaro and the Caps will receive a 7 figure transfer fee. http://www.eightysixforever.com/2014/1/13/5303830/has-the-camilo-situation-been-fixed I hope so but the cynic side of me has several questions: Does that 7 figure include the decimal points? Will they actually release the amount? Was part of that 7 figure given to the Caps by MLS? Look for the wording in the option clause to be clarified in the next CBA to the point where no player or team will try it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I hope so but the cynic side of me has several questions: Does that 7 figure include the decimal points? Will they actually release the amount? Was part of that 7 figure given to the Caps by MLS? Look for the wording in the option clause to be clarified in the next CBA to the point where no player or team will try it again. 1)Why would the 7 figure include the decimal points? If MLS/Whitecaps sell their golden boot winner for less than 100K, it makes them look bush league. 2) I don't think that they will release it. Sure, it will be reported by some journalists out there, but it's rare to see a club to announce that they have sold player X for Y amount of dollars. It's like salaries in any sport. The clubs never reveal their salaries "per team policy" but we usually find out what they make in the Big 4 major leagues. 3) Yes, of course. I don't know how much of the % the Whitecaps will get. I'm not a CBA expert so I can't tell you, but I'm sure someone can find it. The question is that who was in the wrong. I think that Camilo/Queretaro were wrong, because it's the first time I've heard something like that happen to MLS of a player who has his option exercised trying to sign with another club. It's not MLS's fault if Camilo's clan doesn't read well enough their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If QFC is willing to pay a transfer, which surprises me, that money is coming off Camilo's salary. Or at least a part of it. No way you award a player with a free agent salary if he is not one. Instead of 3 years at 800,000 you'd pay him 600,00, or less but with good bonuses. Any offer of money is a tacit recognition that the player is under contract. There is not way that the Whitecaps should feel obliged to negotiate only with the club the player wants to go to. Sto if the Mexicans offer a sum the Whitecaps simply do not have to accept it. They could shop him around to another club, as there is no obligation for the Caps to take that offer, none whatsoever. Accept the highest bid, I say. If Camilo rejects it then that puts him in an uncomfortable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Look for the wording in the option clause to be clarified in the next CBA to the point where no player or team will try it again. I think the multiple one year options will simply be toast. It is very questionable if they are even legally enforceable, MLSPU already hates them with a passion, and to be frank if MLS wants to go further in attracting talent they have to throw out the heavy-handed measures such as these. I believe the game really played here was one of the Mexican team saying "play ball with us, or we blow the lid off your contract terms in court". I don't for a second believe the club or the player's agent are as sloppy as they are being portrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's the Caps fault I think a bit as well. They should of re-negotiated Camilo contract right after he secured the Golden Boot instead of give him the shaft and re-up the option for the same 250k which is significantly less than he is worth. There was already interest building in him overseas, they should of recognized that getting Camilo under a new contract was paramount in keeping him happy and giving the club more leverage at any negotiating table with any foreign club interested in him. Camilo and his Agent were in the wrong to, but I think this was Camilo's way of giving the Caps management the big FU for not committing to him when they should and could have. This all could of been avoided if the Caps didn't completely focus the attention on lurin g Bradley here failing then hiring Robbo, then from what I have read taking vacations. If out FO would of done the job in a timely manner none of this would of happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If QFC is willing to pay a transfer, which surprises me, that money is coming off Camilo's salary. Or at least a part of it. No way you award a player with a free agent salary if he is not one. Instead of 3 years at 800,000 you'd pay him 600,00, or less but with good bonuses. Any offer of money is a tacit recognition that the player is under contract. There is not way that the Whitecaps should feel obliged to negotiate only with the club the player wants to go to. Sto if the Mexicans offer a sum the Whitecaps simply do not have to accept it. They could shop him around to another club, as there is no obligation for the Caps to take that offer, none whatsoever. Accept the highest bid, I say. If Camilo rejects it then that puts him in an uncomfortable position. That is fine in theory but when a player pulls a stunt like Camilo did that often cools the interest in him. I would not be surprised if Rosenborg is now relieved that the Caps rejected their offer. Had he not done this maybe they could have sold him for more than Queretaro is offering but now I would be surprised if they get a better offer than what they are going to get from Queretaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think the multiple one year options will simply be toast. It is very questionable if they are even legally enforceable, MLSPU already hates them with a passion, and to be frank if MLS wants to go further in attracting talent they have to throw out the heavy-handed measures such as these. I believe the game really played here was one of the Mexican team saying "play ball with us, or we blow the lid off your contract terms in court". I don't for a second believe the club or the player's agent are as sloppy as they are being portrayed. It will be interesting to see if this gives the players' union any leverage next year. QFC may have had a case with FIFA but were willing to settle just to free up his ITC without the 2 month wait. I'm now very curious as to the amount. MLS loves their absolute dictator status and in the past it served them well but the league is past that point now. It'll be interesting negotiations next year, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Renegotiating Camilo's contract is pointless when the player has no interest in playing to his contract. The Whitecaps did Camilo a favour at the end of 2010; that didn't buy them anything. And he didn't give Vancouver money back after his disappointing 2011, for whatever reason. If you think the Whitecaps aren't allowed to have bargain contracts anymore because they need to renegotiate up anybody who plays well in case they think contracts are for little people then give up, the team will never win anything anyway because this is a salary cap league and you need some guys who get paid less than they're worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well Bob, then don't be surprised if the player looks elsewere. Never forget EVERY player needs to get as much money out of their 10-12 years span as a Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well Bob, then don't be surprised if the player looks elsewere. Never forget EVERY player needs to get as much money out of their 10-12 years span as a Pro. Like others have said you ALWAYS want to pay players the amount it would cost you to replace them. That is just so simple and basic to do otherwise even when they are under contract is to invite this very situation. So we need a forward who is golden boot winner level who averages 17 goals a year for 2 years at the forward position and all of that for $250k. I hope we can find one or two again and I also dearly hope that MLS and the Caps have learned from this situation in which they put themselves. Yes the Caps did Camilo a favour in renegotiating him up to $250k after his first season. He was worth it. Back at his natural forward position in 2013 he took his game to another level almost doubling his goals as a forward. If you are smart you reward that. It was not a fluke, he is a very skilled player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well Bob, then don't be surprised if the player looks elsewere. Never forget EVERY player needs to get as much money out of their 10-12 years span as a Pro. Don't be surprised that something which had never happened before in MLS history happened? For ****'s sake, you can see that not every player in the universe is as much of a lying sleazebag as Camilo by the fact that he's the only MLS player who has ever pulled this ****. There is absolutely no room for argument here! None! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Don't be surprised that something which had never happened before in MLS history happened? For ****'s sake, you can see that not every player in the universe is as much of a lying sleazebag as Camilo by the fact that he's the only MLS player who has ever pulled this ****. There is absolutely no room for argument here! None! Maybe Camilo is the first player in MLS history who has an agent who knows how to deal with MLS effectively. Maybe all the other agents are happy collecting the same fee as Camilo's agent but not having the brains to figure out the weakness in MLS contract options or the balls to try and exploit it. There is lots of room for argument here. Lots. Camilo's agent telling him and prospective teams that he is a free agent and putting his own career as an agent on the line means nothing? The guy found a weakness in MLS contracts and exploited it to his client's benefit. The fact that Camilo went along with it is his choice. You pay agents/lawyers (professional people) for their guidance. In the end it was Camilo's choice and he chose the money now instead of later. I fail to see the reason for calling the guy names. As much as I hate the situation I can understand it from his standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because, I dunno, signing a contract in bad faith and lying up a storm is a sign of moral turpitude? Your agent works for you; there's no "oh I was only following orders" defense here. My favourite thing about sports is the way honesty and human decency are such unwelcome values even among some fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Because, I dunno, signing a contract in bad faith and lying up a storm is a sign of moral turpitude? Your agent works for you; there's no "oh I was only following orders" defense here. My favourite thing about sports is the way honesty and human decency are such unwelcome values even among some fans. I did say it was his choice. You may want to read what I said not what you think I said. You may find that it helps. How do you know he was lying? At the time he may have planned on living in Vancouver for a long time, thought he'd be rewarded for the golden boot season immediately not "we'll talk later"? As far as we know he lived up to his contract. MLS says no and his agent says yes. Honesty and decency are always welcome. A player looking out for his best interest in the face of indifference from his club and league and changing his mind about things is a sign of reflection and changing plans not dishonesty and indecency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.